Depression and what it's really like

Xps that might work if you’re “feeling blue” but ime clinical depression and anxiety are defined by the inability to be objective.

what depression is really like = 15 years of hanl3y posts

I didn't even know what depression was until the other week when I had to show up for a horrible meeting at the Dewsbury Moor Sure Start centre. With a background wall of inspirational quotes from Mumsnet and Jo Cox burning my eyes, just zoning out every time someone apart from me talks and realising my self loathing is bad, these people are bad, everything is bad! But I've got to the point where I know if I had clinical depression - I genuinely would have topped myself by now! So I feel for you ppl with depression, cos life as lived by most is already too many abysmal slaps to the face in series.

https://youtu.be/Q4LnpEj1O1Y

WATCH MENTAL ILLNESS: https://t.co/VvBj0tqPiK
START TALKING: #mentalillnessbygaa #mentalillnessawareness #therapythroughmusic

— Gregory Austin Anderson (@gaustinanderson) October 29, 2018

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/how-to-help-someone-who-is-suicidal/

Just a quick check in to say things are alright with me atm - new meds seem to be doing well; it’s only been two months, but I’m feeling more confident. I’ll maybe try going to uni in the nighttime come the new year, assuming things stay level.

good news dowd, pleased to hear it

really good to hear you're having a better time of it, confidence is the magic stuff

excellent dowd

That's great news!

Brilliant, dowd!

that's really good news dowd, I'm glad to hear it.

as a Dowd myself, I'm always pleased to see my online namesake having a win or two!

Blech - a guy in the pub had some rope, and someone joked that it was for a noose, so he demonstrated different ways of making a noose and I kind of blanched. I had to ask him to stop, and go outside to stop a panic attack. Didn’t expect such a strong reaction. It was super embarassing.

That sounds like a really bizarre and unpleasant situation for anyone, why would "this is how you make a noose" be a fun topic for anyone?

this is prob not the right thread but we mentioned learned helplessness here so

I don't know how anyone manages not to have learned helplessness in a world where the negative consequences of trying to do a good job and making a mistake are so much more immediate than any positive consequences of actually doing a good job or negative consequences of not doing anything

Prefacing this that I haven't posted itt as much as I should have over the years...when in remission I've avoided it for fear of being triggered back into it...and when suffering a bout, w/ some exceptions, I've been too incapacitated to contribute anything. Words are the first to go.

I've tried so hard to tackle this w/o any meds these past couple of years...meditation, rigorous daily exercise, trail running, heavy bag, nutritional supplements—HTP-5, magnesium, L-Methylfolate, St. John's wort, turmeric—and Ketamine infusions, psilocybin microdose, ayahuasca, MDMA, somatics experiencing, conventional talk therapy, more directed therapies, cranio-sacral work, homeopathy, breath-work, Reiki, sex, prayer. All in the knowledge that I could, if I absolutely had to, go back on prescription meds.

In January, after 12 years of dealing off and on with this, I discovered a new, horrific level. A friend and mentor who writes on the subject described my depression as "impacted" and convinced me to check into an intensive outpatient program, where I was persuaded to give the meds another go. Now six weeks into what feels like a capitulation—a course of Wellbutrin—and feeling no change besides some anxiety around the edges that wasn't there before.

I have refused so far to go back on an SNRI (I was on Effexor for many years and coming off it was brutalizing, I'm convinced it irreversibly re-jiggered my nervous system) or SSRI (because of weight gain and libido stuff, which I know is absurd considering the stakes). A few months ago I was circling closer to the "heroic dose" of mushrooms in the company of a friend/sitter (I have applied for clinical trials to no avail) but symptoms in this acute state have me concerned that kind of trip would hijack my shadows and things could go south.

Now a week into TMS, which I am trying to be optimistic about.

So fucking tired of this. So sick about how much of my life has disappeared inside it. Worried that it is finally about to have its way with me.

what do you think about the new ketamine spray thing?

I hope that it's helpful to people...my own experience w/ ketamine infusions was a short-lasting effect. If the action is meant to stimulate/rehabilitate atrophied receptors it seems insufficient, but maybe for people who are suffering from mild depression or need an add'l tool it could be effective

it's supposed to be for severe depression that isn't responsive to SSRIs and SSNIs i think?

hi emperor 8!

i had tms last year after a fucking lifetime of crippling depression, like you because i'd tried goddamn everything else. my hope was that, you know, maybe it would be enough to keep me alive another year.

i am still a little surprised at how well i've responded to it and how lasting the change has been (nine months so far). all the overwhelming and intense feelings the depression hit me with, feelings i've spent decades trying to work around, now seem manageable. when i start in on the ruminating i can often not only recognize it but actually pull myself out of it.

it did take quite a while to kick in. of course everybody responds differently, and i don't want to oversell it or give you unreasonable expectations, but i do think there's pretty good objective grounds for optimism. how many treatments are you doing?

i stayed off meds for a long time for similar reasons to you, but am back on a fairly low dose of zoloft and i am finding it helpful and not terribly disruptive. i don't feel anymore like taking meds is a failure or particularly dangerous to my long-term well-being.

I'm glad to hear it's wroking for you. I noticed immediately that my sleep, energy, and cognition improved—after just a session or two—but am led to believe this may be just a common initial response that may not persist at least initially.

I'm doing a course of six weeks of deepTMS which uses a different kind of coil that is supposed to send the pulses deeper into the folds of the cortex (6-7cm). They started me on the standard repetitive protocol (18hz) but have now switched to what they are calling Theta Burst, which fires at 50hz but in a pattern intended to mimic the electrical communication between neurons.

This new protocol fucking hurts. The fields are directed into the left dorsal prefrontal cortex. but on the right side of my head—above my temple—it is barely tolerable, like an enormous woodpecker hammering away at a hematoma. 9 minutes totaling 1,800 bursts followed by a fifteen minute break and then another 9 minutes. Does it stop hurting?

xp sarahell yes, but I don't believe the trials showing any remission tested for standalone eskatamine, only as an augmentation to oral antidepressants. Which is still good I suppose, but my own history has me skeptical

i didn't start feeling any significant effects that i couldn't dismiss as placebo syndrome until about four weeks in. i believe i was on the six week course too, but i don't know what the intensity was or if theta burst was around when i did my thing so i can't comment on that specific protocol, but what you're having sounds like what i had (though i don't know what a hematoma feels like).

they had me gradually amp up the intensity according to my tolerances. i pushed it a little harder than i needed to because i was being all fucking macho about it, which probably wasn't necessary. also in the state i was in i welcomed physical pain, which probably played into it. i would say less that it stopped hurting than that i acclimated to it.

i'll also say that the tms didn't do jack shit for my anxiety, but i'm better at dealing with it without the depression complicating things.

Blech - a guy in the pub had some rope, and someone joked that it was for a noose, so he demonstrated different ways of making a noose and I kind of blanched. I had to ask him to stop, and go outside to stop a panic attack. Didn’t expect such a strong reaction. It was super embarassing.

anybody else have days with persistent but not intense suicide thoughts, like, I'm not gonna do it, but I keep thinking about it

xps Yeah they were in the process of ramping me up from 60% of my motor threshold (the point at which your hand starts jumping around) inorder to desensitize/build tolerance with the goal of taking it to 120%. And they got it up to 95% a couple of days ago, then told me they were changing the protocol.

With the Theta Burst they say they can now achieve the same effectiveness with only 80% motor threshold. But I was kinda pissed because like you I felt (perversely) like there was some merit to toughing it out.

I can relate to welcoming the physical pain even while I don't look forward to it...it is preoccupying enough to provide a 30 minute reprieve from the ruminations

you all should feel free to post on the 77 version of this thread - sometimes stuff like this is easier for others to talk about when it's not google-able

hello everyone

I've hated myself as long as I can remember - at least since I was 12 - but I always kinda (stupidly, catholic-ly) prided myself on getting by without assistance, in not totally dissimilar a way from what E8 described. never even been to therapy. but last week I took my first-ever vacation and had ended up having a four-day breakdown, and came to realize that the knowledge of how my loved ones would take it is the only thing that has stopped me from, let's say, wandering into oncoming traffic. whee!

anyway now I'm on two waiting lists for therapists (specifically, hunting for ACT treatment, inspired by the advice of someone who's known me a very long time and whomst has serious mental health expertise).

I don't have a whole lot to add except to throw some solidarity out to the folks struggling itt

the 77 thread is great, i do recommend it and yeah mental illness can be really tough to talk about

i don't know, but i certainly hope that this thread is at least de-indexed. i'm fortunate enough to be in a position where i don't face any practical negative consequences about being open about my mental illness, but i know that's not the case for everyone.

glad to hear you're getting help, simon. if it helps you're far from the only person to be affected in this way, so try not to beat yourself up over not getting it sooner. you're doing the right thing now, and that's what's important

vacations have always been particularly hard for me, too. i had a breakdown after a vacation in 2003, and one last year went so poorly that i wound up getting tms. i've been working very hard to get to a point where i can take a "vacation" without totally making myself miserable. coincidentally this is the first day of one for me. it's tough, but i feel ok about it!

Simon, hugs! I understand the catholic factor very well.

My husband is still suffering a lot. But it's walking near the abyss. Trying my hardest to keep him from falling in.

Well, hugs to everyone. Sending you lots of love.

nathom, i feel you on that, trying to love and support a depressed person is incredibly thankless and punishing. make sure you take time to take care of yourself!

Thanks. 😘

but last week I took my first-ever vacation and had ended up having a four-day breakdown

vacations will take you there! i didn't know i was depressed until i spent a week in berlin last year, the last three days were straight up horrible and terrifying (and then, later, it got worse, woo). glad you're making progress with finding a therapist, simon. i think you're smart and good and i think you deserve to have the same opinion of yourself

may i ask what the relation between your berlin vacation - next time you come we could meet if you are interested - and the realization of your depression is, brad? or is that too private andi am too curious?

brad I'm sorry berlin sucked but I'm honestly so relieved to hear about someone else just breaking down on vacation! the worst part was that I was travelling with a friend of mine, and several of her friends, with most of us staying in a tiny airbnb, so I felt like I had to constantly exile myself so as not to poison anyone else's good vibes. she's since told me she found the trip "revitalizing" etc and had a totally wonderful time so I guess mission accomplished lol

also Emperor I'm a little freaked out by yr revive post because (besides the hard drugs, but only cause no hookup) my list of failed coping mechanisms has so much overlap (tho I've never been on meds and I suspect that's inevitably gonna be a thing)

the 77 thread is great, i do recommend it and yeah mental illness can be really tough to talk about

i don't know, but i certainly hope that this thread is at least de-indexed.

i don't think this thread is de-indexed. really do recommend the 77 version of this thread (Depression and anxiety and how we try to deal).

simon, your post from yesterday overlaps a LOT with how i was feeling almost exactly a year ago. i got into therapy for the first time and it helped me a ton. several months later (after a ton of bullshit with the u.s. healthcare system, the finest healthcare system in the world, so good that it cannot be improved upon) i started antidepressants (also for the first time) and things are so, so much better for me right now. what you said about oncoming traffic and loved ones - i can't tell you how many times i had that thought. it's really good you're taking a step to talk to someone about it.

anyway, best thoughts to you all, and really, consider coming to the thread where two 7's collide

oncoming traffic and loved ones
although i will mention that i usually was more of a telephone pole ruminator

Karl do you mind sharing what you went on, re: antidepressants? we can take this to 77 if you prefer (as soon as I get access lol)

don't mind sharing at all - i'm on effexor. i guess one thing you'll quickly learn is that everyone's experience with all this is very different. it has been very good for me, but not so good for others. and effexor has a reputation for being very hard to get off of. what emperor 8 said above - (I was on Effexor for many years and coming off it was brutalizing, I'm convinced it irreversibly re-jiggered my nervous system) is what i'm kind of terrifed of. however, i'm on a relative low dose (75/mg a day), whereas my psychiatrist told me that the antianxiety affects don't really kick in until the 150 mg/day threshold is passed. so i'm hopeful that it'll be a little easier for me to wean off, eventually. honestly, right now i don't want to come off of it - i just feel pretty good, not in an artificially imposed fake-happy thing (which is what i was worried about when i started), but just in a really nice "i don't give a fuck" way. like, when something bad happens and it's definitely not my fault, i don't worry about it so much more. i used to really dwell on things like that all the time, even when it wasn't my fault. now i can just say "oh, well that wasn't my fault", even when other people (like my boss or whatever) might be blaming me. that doesn't feel "fake" happy to me, it just feels like a better way to respond to things. i don't know if effexor is somehow helping me make that happen, or if it's the therapy, or both, and i don't care. i'm just in a better place now. obv i have no fucking clue what's going on with the different med options, but it's very much worth the effort to find someone to talk to that can help you navigate all that shit.

77 access thread is here btw: Request Access to 77 Borad
i assume you know but maybe others haven't seen it or aren't aware of it

i used to really dwell on things like that all the time, even when it wasn't my fault. now i can just say "oh, well that wasn't my fault", even when other people (like my boss or whatever) might be blaming me.

btw, just to inception this shit, i also recognize that sometimes i do still get overly irritated about things, sometimes on ilx. just getting frustrated over little things. but i don't feel so bad about it afterward anymore. i'm just like "well i just freaked out on the internet again, whoops. i'm going to try not to do that again" and move on. it's nice

Yes, getting older and also realizing why I am the way I am(waves at mommy): I'm way more chill (thanks sipralexa) ab things. I'm less stressed. Sometimes I want to stop w sipralexa but even now I get anxiety. And I never wanna get back to wanting to (literally) jump off a cliff.

Yes, getting older and also realizing why I am the way I am(waves at mommy): I'm way more chill (thanks sipralexa) ab things. I'm less stressed. Sometimes I want to stop w sipralexa but even now I get anxiety. And I never wanna get back to wanting to (literally) jump off a cliff.

― nathom

accepting there are actual reasons why i have certain reactions to things, being able to, at least in my own head, criticize (without necessarily _blaming_) certain other people, rather than being "lol depression idk" has been helpful to me, i have found.

i feel like i still have a lot of room to grow as a person, and being on the meds i'm on makes that process easier.

Yes! It took me 2 decades of self-analysis. Tbh if it wasn't for my husband I wouldn't be where I am now. I'm not blaming anyone. Useless and waste of time/energy.

KM, about Effexor, it may have saved my life and I don't regret going on it...but in weaning off after ten years (most at 187.5 mg) I found that my nervous system had to be completely recalibrated, and that absent its insulatiion my system "forgot" how to respond appropriately to life's disappointments. Like I started taking shit way harder than what was appropriate. So now I'm on a course of re-sensitizing, which is not a lot of fun.

Anyway I'm glad it's working for you, and in general—and w/r/t Simon's laundry list of treatment attempts—I'm coming to terms with the fact that there is no silver bullet. I had longed hope for the *one* thing that would do the trick but I know now it's going to be a combination of little things that will keep me afloat, if in fact I ever come up for air.

I feel you guys on vacation, too. I have a history of this and was brutailzed around the holidays this year in trips to see family—people I love, in MI and FL. I think vacations are particularly hard just because they upset the prospect of improvement due to a change of scenery. I know that when I am suffering a heavy bout I'll come to lament my circumstances and surroundings, only to learn over and again that depression DGAF about where you take it. To deplane in a sunny clime, or to be greeted by old friends, and realize that you STILL feel like dying is somehow doubly bad.

may i ask what the relation between your berlin vacation - next time you come we could meet if you are interested - and the realization of your depression is, brad? or is that too private andi am too curious?

― Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:10 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wasn't the city itself, berlin is wonderful and i would live there if i could, but i went with one of my best friends and spending a week with your best friend in one-bed airbnb, and also going everywhere together... she got tired and annoyed with me during the last few days of the trip (fair! i guess) and i just started spiraling from there bc i did not believe i deserved anything good and this was just new evidence. went off the deep end a month later during another vacation in ocean city maryland after taking molly that prob was mostly coke, but idk how much i should share about that particular breakdown on ile

anyway i'm much better now and genuinely believe i deserve good things. still need a therapist! but doin' ok without one for now

I was travelling with a friend of mine, and several of her friends, with most of us staying in a tiny airbnb, so I felt like I had to constantly exile myself so as not to poison anyone else's good vibes

in fact, my berlin trip was a lot like this

oh, i love my family too, but that doesn't necessarily make it easier for me to visit! my new rule is, i have a house now, people who want to see me can come visit, i'm not going back to fucking indiana.