DARK SOULS: if you need me i'll be in an induced coma so mvrch comes tomorrow

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You're good then

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 5 October 2018 18:47 (five years ago) link

Basically started at the beginning again, where I got to interact with that golden knight sitting on the ledge at Firelink (iirc I'm supposed to kick him off? I can't remember how to kick!), then basically repeated the first few hunks of the game where, after beating the first black knight (I've gotten better), I did indeed find a door to brought me to some stairs down to sort of a ... town? Where I killed some dogs, found a wizard or something that gave me a bunch of magical crap, iirc, then walked into an ambush by some jumping zombie ninjas that leaped on my back and killed me. Time for a break!

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 October 2018 21:16 (five years ago) link

kick = up + light attack

can't be done with curved swords as your character will instead do a backflip right off a ledge

chihuahuau, Friday, 5 October 2018 21:26 (five years ago) link

Or you could leave him alive, and see what happens ;)

That's a good path you're on btw.

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 5 October 2018 21:35 (five years ago) link

This game should be called See What Happens.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 October 2018 21:49 (five years ago) link

(You die.)

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 October 2018 21:49 (five years ago) link

gargoyles were an absolute fucker for me. i hadn't learned to keep my distance and be patient just yet (i cheesed taurus demon a bit) so i predictably kept getting caught on fire.

did you settle on a weapon?

closed beta (NotEnough), Friday, 5 October 2018 22:21 (five years ago) link

Since I watched a walkthrough back when up to gargoyles, I knew I could shoot the dragon's tail off (once I figured out the shortcut around the bridge) which gave me the drake sword, which has been a big leg up. But I killed the earlier vendor and got the katana, and lately I've mostly been using that, because I know I can scale it with dex (right?). What I don't know is what paying the blacksmith for +1 etc gets me. Do I have to do that before it scales? Does it matter? I have no idea. It's been educational trying to figure out how the wield the katana after the drake - a stab vs a swing, it seems - but they've very different. May also try to wield the claymore I got earlier, since it also seems to scale pretty well, but it's pretty slow. Not sure what difference all the shields make, since even pretty generic seeming shields seem to do a good job.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 October 2018 22:53 (five years ago) link

Katana does more damage if you have high dex yeah, but if you upgrade it, it also gets more base damage, AND better scaling (so you get even more value from having high dex). So if it says 100 + 50, that means 100 base damage + 50 because of the dex scaling. And the 'B' scaling for dex means the scaling is pretty good (better than C or D, not as good as A or, for some reason, S).

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 5 October 2018 23:12 (five years ago) link

do ask about weapon upgrades (or check a wiki if you're not afraid of bumping into major spoilers) because fuck figuring everything out by trial and error and waste all your titanite on a dead end upgrade path.

S > A > ... > E but there's variation within each letter, you can see it when upgrading and you go from B > B but the upgraded B is blue, meaning scaling has improved but not enough to cross over to A

Katanas and other dex weapons cause bleeding but not all enemies bleed

shields tl;dr: get a shield with high stability that is light enough to not impair your movement

how shields work: there's a bunch of dmg reduction percentages for physical, fire, magic, etc damage types. 90% physical means that when an enemy strikes you with a pure physical attack and you have your shield up, 10% of its attack power will damage you no matter what. how much damage your health bar takes from will depend on other factors like your defense stats, armour, etc

the other 90% don't just disappear, though. they go through your shield and deplete not your health bar but your stamina bar. if you have enough stamina to take the hit, you get no further damage. if you use a 100% physical shield and have enough stamina, you take no damage at all.

notice how when you hold your shield up, your stamina regenerates very slowly? keeping it up all the time and getting hit with weak attacks in quick succesion will eventually exhaust your stamina and stagger your character

the conversion rate between attack power and stamina depletion is determined by the shield's most important stat, stability. 50 means 50% of the attack power will be nullified and the other half will drain your stamina; 80 means 80% is blocked and only 20% goes to stamina

chihuahuau, Saturday, 6 October 2018 00:51 (five years ago) link

How in the world did anyone figure that shit out?

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 6 October 2018 02:54 (five years ago) link

I've mentioned which stats I've been leveling up, though I barely know what point by point effect that has on anything. Same with my overall level (which last I checked was ... 24?). As for weapons, I have no idea what to go for or why, why one thing is necessarily better than the other besides the advantage of brute force or some special ability. Is there really a reason to switch between weapons (bows and range weapons aside)? For example, will I ever use or need my mace or ax?

More pertinently, what exactly do I want the blacksmith to do? I know he repairs weapons, which get dull or damaged. But I can also pay him souls to make them, say, +1. What does the +1 mean? Is that what you mean by upgrading? Does that mean I just make the weapon "better" by 1, a bunch of souls at a time, until they max out their +-ness? Will that make a noticeable difference? And then I can enhance them, too, right? What does that mean? And all of this is different/separate from scaling?

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 6 October 2018 03:00 (five years ago) link

Just look up weapon upgrading on a wiki. It's ultimately the most important thing in the game, more impactful overall than levelling with souls.

Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 6 October 2018 07:42 (five years ago) link

The list of things that matter in DS1 are:

1. Maximizing damage output
2. Not getting hit
End of list

Understand attribute scaling and weapon upgrades. Understand maximizing your roll speed, shields (good info above), and stamina. Don't put souls into any attributes that don't contribute to these until later in the game when you start getting diminishing returns.

Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 6 October 2018 08:08 (five years ago) link

How in the world did anyone figure that shit out?


TBH this was a huge part of what made this game special when it was first released. Nobody really knew wtf was going on. Relied on trading tips with friends (which was something I hadn’t experienced since high school) and watching that one American YouTube guy who had access to the Japanese version a few months ahead of us.

Also I would say you’re missing out on a huge part of this game by not playing online, but maybe that’s a little less so at this point in its life.

circa1916, Saturday, 6 October 2018 08:44 (five years ago) link

As for weapons, I have no idea what to go for or why, why one thing is necessarily better than the other besides the advantage of brute force or some special ability.

moveset. between 2 weapons with roughly the same damage output and weight, pick the one with the moveset you like most, even if it does slightly less damage than the other. it's subjective

Is there really a reason to switch between weapons (bows and range weapons aside)? For example, will I ever use or need my mace or ax?

most weapons will be completely useless for the character you've built. you may occasionally want to change it up if some enemy is resistant to what you're normally wielding... or you can just run past them

Does that mean I just make the weapon "better" by 1, a bunch of souls at a time, until they max out their +-ness? Will that make a noticeable difference?

yes, like RS said, you can easily go through the game without ever leveling up your character but upgrading your equipment only

weapons go from base all the way up to +15 in the regular path. the material required to go from +14 to +15 is extrememly rare. it's no big deal, +14 is plenty

And then I can enhance them, too, right? What does that mean? And all of this is different/separate from scaling?

at lvls +5 and +10 you can choose to continue your upgrade path or pick a modified one, like fire weapons, magic, lightning. each has pros and cons and may need different upgrade ores

while upgrading within a path always improves a weapon, changing paths alters its properties, which may or may not result in an upgrade from your point of view.
for example, doing a fire upgrade from WEAPON +5 to Fire WEAPON will add fire damage type in addition to phys at the cost of removing all stat scaling

chihuahuau, Saturday, 6 October 2018 08:54 (five years ago) link

Is there a reason to upgrade more than one or two weapons? And soul leveling, is that mostly just to let you wield and scale certain weapons?

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 6 October 2018 11:37 (five years ago) link

Oh, and what am I missing out on by playing offline? Besides getting invaded by overpowered assholes and having to deal with people in addition to a vindictive computer? Messages and tips?

Anyway, as I mentioned earlier I am really reluctant to subscribe to any sort of Playstation online plan. Seems like a ripoff to a modest at best gamer like me.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 6 October 2018 12:01 (five years ago) link

And is grinding for souls expected or just sort of a cheat/shortcut? Given how easily you can die in this and/or lose all your souls, it seems like that's the only guaranteed and therefore tacitly encouraged way to quickly accumulate souls to spend, aside from killing bosses, esp. since everything respawns at a bonfire.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 6 October 2018 12:27 (five years ago) link

always found myself grinding a lot less than expected or to the extent that other people said tbh. that said dead cert kill methods for high HP enemies certainly comes in useful. there’s some late stage knights and enemies in DS3 that were go to places for me. those infested club wielding things in blighttown (which is where i’m at in DS) are currently handy as well, tho i lost 15000 souls on a fucking tree trunk.

Fizzles, Saturday, 6 October 2018 15:46 (five years ago) link

Dead cert? As in, dead certain?

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 6 October 2018 15:59 (five years ago) link

Is there a reason to upgrade more than one or two weapons?

imo yes. as you've seen you grab tons of dupes and low level titanite is also plentiful. you may as well use excess stock and take one of those straight swords up to +5, then down a different path like magic or fire for experimenting. obv you don't *need* to do any of this to beat the game or anything like it, if it sounds like a chore ignore it

iirc boss weapons made from boss souls need a regular path +10 weapon as starting point. each boss weapon has a specific type like normal weapons (short sword, greatsword, medium shield, catalyst, etc) and you need the same type upgraded to +10 to ascend it to a special boss version. any weapon of a particular type will do, don't waste your good equipment on that, a broken straight sword +10 is the same as a regular straight sword +10 when it comes to ascending weapons

what am I missing out on by playing offline?

some of the best parts of the game tbh. even if you're averse to pvp you're only invaded if you're human and haven't yet beaten the boss of the area you're in, so that's easy enough to avoid. now that you've killed the taurus demon and gargoyles, no one could invade you in either undead burg or parish even if you're human (unless certain special covenant related things happen...)

you miss out on messages and cool atmospheric touches like seeing phantoms of other players or hearing them ring the parish bell in their own game

you also miss out on joining other player's games and help them beat a boss which imo is the best grinding method for souls. much less tedious than killing the same mooks countless times

chihuahuau, Saturday, 6 October 2018 17:01 (five years ago) link

also sometimes really powerful players invade and one-hit bosses for you

||||||||, Saturday, 6 October 2018 17:45 (five years ago) link

dead cert as in certain yes. i just mean your comfy killing them for the most part but they yield lots of souls.

this thread sent me back to pick up the game in fact. just beat Queelag on second go which seemed v easy.

Fizzles, Saturday, 6 October 2018 17:53 (five years ago) link

I upped my katana to +5, which is the most I can do without a fire ember or something. Regardless, it was good enough to kill that giant but slow lightning shooting thing that lives by Andre the Blacksmith, which gained me access to the forest, but ... I don't think I want to go there. I'm going to go back to where (lower undead burg?) those jumping zombie ninjas are first, and those dogs, which are a pia. Took me forever to remember how to get there, or which bonfire is most convenient.

Did some grinding to repair some equipment, mostly the armor I've been wearing, which afaict has been doing a good job.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 6 October 2018 21:06 (five years ago) link

Did you get the repairbox?

You don't have to upgrade or use other weapons if you don't want to, I've gone through the whole game with that katana (my fave) or the starting longsword.

The main differences are in the classes of weapons...big swords are slower, but can more easily stun/knock down enemies and break through shields. Katanas and smaller swords are faster and can get in more hits. Spears let you stay far away from enemies, but mostly go in a straight line so are worse against groups, require you to lock on more often, etc.

The poise system is a whole other thing, you probably don't need to worry about it if you're staying offline. But basically it's the idea that if you're wearing heavy armor (or, uh, wearing a certain ring), then you can swing your weapon without being interrupted when someone hits you at the same time. But the trade-off is needing to level endurance to wear that armor without being overburdened, and having a sloooow roll.

Poise isn't that important for the regular non-pvp game, but keeping your equip burden under 50% to have a decent roll is.

change display name (Jordan), Sunday, 7 October 2018 01:04 (five years ago) link

Yeah has the slow roll thing been emphasized yet? That’s something that I didn’t really grasp until a good way through my first play through and it made my life a lot easier once I got it. Ideally, you’ll want your equipment burden to be 50% or less. Allows faster, farther, more effective rolls and rolling is obv pretty crucial.

25% and under bumps roll effectiveness even more, but just keeping it under 50 is good enough imo.

Endurance boosts your equipment load too, so yeah, valuable stat in many ways.

circa1916, Sunday, 7 October 2018 03:11 (five years ago) link

Also, were the percentages different for roll efficacy in vanilla DS or am I imagining that?

circa1916, Sunday, 7 October 2018 03:13 (five years ago) link

Maybe not, for some reason I remember there being a change at 75% in the early versions.

Like 0-25 was fast, 25-50 was medium, 50-75 was slow, and 75-100 was “fat roll”.

circa1916, Sunday, 7 October 2018 03:19 (five years ago) link

Also I get not wanting to shell out the cash for online capabilities, but yeah, some of my better memories from my first time with the game involved the terror of being invaded and the joy of summoning help on those tougher bosses. Was never much of a griefer/invader but helping other ppl beat bosses was fun and fairly lucrative. Also, those messages which would lead to real help, real fucking you over, or some good lols. And the spirits and bloodstains. All added up to a unique feeling of connection to the living outside world in a game that atmospherically, by design, is very lonely.

circa1916, Sunday, 7 October 2018 03:31 (five years ago) link

If it the world is designed to be atmospherically lonely, then shouldn't it be played ... alone?

How is the online community these days? Dark Souls is ... 7 years old? Older? How much online activity is there? I assume the remaster bumped things up a bit, and Switch might (will there be crossplay?) but is there an active Dark Souls online scene?

i've been under 25% weight most of the time, because I learned quickly the advantages of rolling. I also upgraded my claymore, just because, and it's remarkable to me how many advantages and disadvantages it has compared to the katana. I'm glad I put the drake sword in reserve, because it seemed sort of overpowered this early in the game.

So I'm going to go to lower undead next, unless I should go to the forest. I have no idea what's next except maybe a capra demon that everyone complains about?

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 October 2018 05:11 (five years ago) link

If it the world is designed to be atmospherically lonely, then shouldn't it be played ... alone?


Well... the online interaction was also totally fleeting and brief too. Random ~souls~ would enter your world from who knows where, antagonistic or sympathetic, and then be gone forever. You see how other people died. You see the marks they scrawled on the ground. Having these brief temporary interactions that can never be repeated reinforces that sense of loneliness and loss too.

Ha. Even though this is a hack n slash rpg fantasy game, I really do think this is so much more of a case for “video games as art” than the stuff that’s obviously shooting for it. It’s special and I got lots of feelings about it.

circa1916, Sunday, 7 October 2018 06:16 (five years ago) link

In have no idea what the online community is like these days though. It’s a game that’s been solved and who knows what the nerds are doing with it.

circa1916, Sunday, 7 October 2018 06:18 (five years ago) link

spears and rapiers are notable in that they let you poke enemies while keeping your shield up if you're the turtling type

circa1916 otm

chihuahuau, Sunday, 7 October 2018 11:25 (five years ago) link

Some of the most amusing elements of this game so far are the NPCs. It's this dark, tragic world rife with roaming evil monsters. And yet every once in a while you come across some person just hanging out, making small talk like a bit Monty Python character. "Oh, heh heh. I didn't see you there. I've just been cooling my heels a bit, taking a breather. You know, I've heard there's a goat creature on the loose, can you believe it? You better be careful, he he he." Never mind that he's talking to a zombie-skinned cursed warrior patiently hearing him out, there are literally monsters running amuck right around the corner. It would be hilarious if every time you came across an NPC they just yelled "ahhhh!" and ran away, and if you wanted to talk to them you had to catch up with them and explain you're not there to kill them.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 October 2018 13:10 (five years ago) link

have you met solaire yet ?

||||||||, Sunday, 7 October 2018 13:37 (five years ago) link

I think? He was the dude hanging on the balcony ... just around the corner from where the dragon was chilling, iirc. Like, nbd, check out the view, hey, a dragon, that's cool. "If you ever need a hand, just look for the sign ... (affects maniacal malevolent Disney Haunted Mansion voice for some reason) " ... you CAN'T MISS IT. Bwah ha ha hahaha!"

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 October 2018 14:00 (five years ago) link

Holy crap, Capra Demon (and dogs). I'm sure this, like other things, will get easier as I get used to it and figure out what to do, but the undead assassins and dogs on the way there make it an extra pain. The boss itself, it's nuts that you barely even have any time to move before it and the dogs kill you.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 7 October 2018 22:22 (five years ago) link

More questions about levels: I've put most of my souls (earned and farmed) into strength, dexterity, vitality and endurance. Each of those is close to 20. Is that a bad strategy? I saw somewhere someone suggestion picking either strength or dex to boost up, but is it bad if you boost them both or just a waste of time? Right now I've got my katana and claymore at +5 (which is as high as I can go until I get some embers, right?). Should I be boosting my shield and armor, too? I'm not sure what to equip in terms of that stuff, I've mostly been keeping my weight down below 25. Is armor et al. as important as weapon? Even my pretty generic shield seems to be good enough.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 October 2018 00:18 (five years ago) link

It's not too important to upgrade armor and shields imo, I never really do. It improves shield stability, but not to a huge extent.

High strength & dex is usually called a 'quality' build, I say do what you want. Some players are trying to stick to a certain level because they're playing online and want to do pvp in a certain area, so they want to maximize their stats for that level. But you don't have to worry about that, so, don't worry.

change display name (Jordan), Monday, 8 October 2018 01:15 (five years ago) link

I have noticed that leveling up has become slower and more challenging, as it requires more and more souls.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 October 2018 01:55 (five years ago) link

don't upgrade armour ever, maybe upgrade your most used shields when you have the titanite or souls to spare.

if levels are getting expensive it's because you're overleveled, keep playing and souls drops will increase along, typical rpg fare

chihuahuau, Monday, 8 October 2018 07:57 (five years ago) link

What does over-leveled mean? (I've never really played RPGs beyond D&D in 5th grade or I guess Zelda in middle school.) Does it mean I boosted my stats too high for this stage of the game and the game is slowing me down?

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 October 2018 11:48 (five years ago) link

Yeah pretty much. There's a natural level range you would be at for each area if you kept progressing without stopping to grind. So if you do grind for levels, they keep costing more but the enemies in the area are still giving you a low amount of souls.

change display name (Jordan), Monday, 8 October 2018 14:49 (five years ago) link

Game is so dark that even at a pretty high brightness setting I'm missing stuff and enemies.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 October 2018 15:33 (five years ago) link

tbf you did mention failing to see the dragon in the brightness test.

the game is dark, sure, but maybe your PS4 rgb output levels are misconfigured. next time you play on the ps4 video settings toggle between pc and video levels (or whatever ps4 calls them) and try the brightness test again.

if you still don't see the dragon, then check your display settings or something

chihuahuau, Monday, 8 October 2018 15:49 (five years ago) link

Still didn't see the dragon, don't feel like messing with the TV settings for the sake of the game. It's bright enough for now, at least.

Gah, stupid capra demon. I guess I'm getting better, but it really seems like a matter of being as fast as possible to get away from it, in time to hide, kill the dogs (it's so hard to tell if they're dead or not) and restore health. I wonder if I might be better off going to the forest first. Or if I'm supposed to?

I did find a shortcut back to firelink shrink, at least, where I can get my 10 estus. That's gotta come in handy.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 October 2018 16:54 (five years ago) link

capra demon iirc, kill the dogs asap, then just run up the stairs, wait for him to follow you, fall off ledge, hit him once or twice, rinse, repeat 4ever.

Fizzles, Monday, 8 October 2018 17:26 (five years ago) link

There's also a pretty great trick that, in fairness, I won't mention until after you beat them.

change display name (Jordan), Monday, 8 October 2018 17:28 (five years ago) link

I like how this game has a way of telling you it's time for a break. In today's case I was fighting the capra demon, finally figured out how to get past it and up the stairs, finally figured out how to spin the camera fast enough to kill the dogs, then managed to break the demon down to maybe a quarter health before the target lock got me stuck in a weird place. So I figured, OK, I think I've got this. Start again at firelink, rush up there, restore myself with one of my 9 estus, pop into the boss area and immediately up the stairs ... then flail wildly before I realized I somehow unequipped a sword and was just using my fists.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 October 2018 19:58 (five years ago) link


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