Idles

i would think that if you really wanted to dismantle toxic masculinity you might do so with maybe incorporating some sort of diversity? or making music that wasn't super aggressive and like beating yr chest w yr fist constantly throughout yr set?

I mean yeah I guess it's nice that someone is making music that appeals to horrible aggro dudes and the message is like "hey maybe be slightly less horrible and aggro" but this music feels very much, like, not for me. Which is fine.

There's plenty of aggro/fist-pumping stereotypically "dudely" music with subversive content - there's nothing inherent to the sonics that necessitates that it be ideologically primitive. See the anti-homophobia tunes on the recent Lich King and Kreator albums, or any of the new wave of explicitly anti-fash / anti-xenophobia black metallers. If the sonics in question aren't for you, that's of course completely fine, but I don't see why there has to be some kind of marriage of form and content as opposed to an interplay.

I mean, there's definitely merit to the criticism of lack of diverse openers and sure they've got an element of performativeness about them. But to me it feels less cynical then I guess it does to you. I think they mean well, and there's joyful naivity to their music that I find appealing. Which isn't to say your criticisms aren't on point, it just feels a little weirdly aggressive a criticism for a fairly harmless band who seem to be trying. I dunno, ymmv I guess.

"or making music that wasn't super aggressive and like beating yr chest w yr fist constantly throughout yr set?" This criticism seems weird to me, but I'll have to think on it more.

ok ya these are good points and I am def coming to it w my own bullshit

As a gay man I have watched queerness become both safer, in terms of existing in the world (in my case a major US city), and also more fashionable, esp in terms of the way that queerness now gives one clout in a lot of types of social spaces. Inevitably I have also watched more straight ppl appropriating queerness in ways that benefit them but in a very "have your cake and eat it too" sort of way, so when I see a group of 5 men flaunting their hatred of homophobia, kissing each other in press photos to "challenge" people, make statements like "everyone is gay" also to challenge people, it 100% feels like people trying to take up space in my lane now that it's become safe and cool.

I think at the end of the day I just accept that nothing about this is radical or challenging or interesting to me, that yes of course they are well-intentioned and maybe harmless but that this is music made for other ppl, maybe these ppl will benefit from it hopefully, idk

also re: the chest beating it feels disingenuous to talk about dismantling toxic masculinity and the patriarchy and all of that but then to center yr stage antics around, like, typical male aggression

From the interviews I've heard/read, it seems a lot like Joe is working all this out as he goes along and seems to be keen to challenge himself. It doesn't seem like a fixed position.

these dudes are from my city and while I feel like I ought to support them as local music, I feel much the same as Stevie. when I saw them live it was like a ticklist of woke Facebook subjects by a bunch of gobby men in Moschino underpants trying to relive their rebellious teenage years

but as I say, I kinda want to like them. they're a British rock band who are making a success and being (on a surface level) confrontational, which is a bit of a rarity nowadays.

i also find it interesting how many songs start with the word 'My'. 'My mother..' this or 'My brother in law' that. if the personal has become the political then this kind of takes it to the extreme.

i do find them a bit cringey though.

Everything I've heard from them has been absolute shit but I dunno, they're clearly filling a vacuum. Question is why there's nothing better to fill it.

In that there's clearly a demand for political, confrontational, noisy music that addresses a lot of the current shit we're going through as a country*, people are positively desperate for it. But there don't seem to be enough bands who are both good enough and getting enough attention, so you get shit like Idles and Sleaford Mods taking up disproportionate amounts of attention in the absence of anything else.

(*By which I mean music primarily made by and for white people in the UK, it's obvious the country has been going through a sustained commercial and artistic boom for black British music).

I heard the record review show on 6music and they were going crazy for the new Idles single, also they seem to be Steve Lamacq's favourite band right now, I relay this information without comment.

I would only add that their previous album, which I did hear, was (iirc) snarky and bitter in the Mclusky mold, so clearly this thematic about-face is relatively new. (Which is not to impugn their motives or anything, just to reconfirm that they seem to still be figuring shit out.)

too bad there aren’t any noisy political confrontational punk bands that aren’t all straight white men (Los Crudos, Limp Wrist, GLOSS, S-21, HIRS, Downtown Boys, Pinkwash, Disipline)

not sure what or who listing those groups was a riposte to but as someone who has the HIRS album as one of their favourites of 2018 to date I think that wondering why people are listening to a band that sound like Idles instead of a brutal tech-grindcore collective is kind of not that deep

Stevie those bands sound really cool and interesting (including Downtown Boys who I love) but every single one of them is from the US and not really relevant to the point I was making. The UK and US just have a fundamentally different relationship to rock music at this point in time.

From what I can tell they don't have anything to do with any kind of queer subculture in the UK and clearly aren't intended to be that band. They seem to be 'political' in the most surface level way, gesturing vaguely in the direction of a range of things including British attitudes to immigration, unemployment etc. Ticking off the woke checklist OTM.

What they *are* representative of is a small but ever present demographic (patron saint - Steve Lamacq) for whom the noisy bunch of enthusiastically oafish clowning twats represent the pinnacle of all music. Most of the time those bands are completely ignored by everyone else in the country - the fact that one of them has got even near the mainstream and that they're also sort of a bit political at the same time suggests a pent up demand, maybe a desperation for something that doesn't appear to exist in Britain right now.

I reiterate they sound like shit.

In that there's clearly a demand for political, confrontational, noisy music that addresses a lot of the current shit we're going through as a country*, people are positively desperate for it. But there don't seem to be enough bands who are both good enough and getting enough attention, so you get shit like Idles and Sleaford Mods taking up disproportionate amounts of attention in the absence of anything else.

(*By which I mean music primarily made by and for white people in the UK, it's obvious the country has been going through a sustained commercial and artistic boom for black British music).

― Matt DC, Thursday, 20 September 2018 21:11 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

new Suede out today! ;)

you're right though - outside of rap i can't think of much noisy, angry, successful UK music from recent years

It's 'Wooooah Je-re-my Cor-byn' the band though right?

Their song about immigration is literally 'some of my best friends are Polish'

But yeah, there is and always has been a hunger for 'proper' British rock music, especially rock music that actually, you know, 'rocks', and I think it's more the muscial format that appeals to people - the right-on agit-prop grandstanding is just the medium, the cherry on top that makes them stand out from other bands making a similar racket in small venues up and down the country (The Wytches come to mind).

It's political music for 30-50 year olds who aren't ready for grime, would feel intimidated by the atmosphere at an inner-city queer or femme-punk gig, and like to headbang their way up the M4 when it comes on Radio 6 in the mornings.

The Wytches are even worse than Idles.

yeah, eeesh

of course, there's loads of good uk metal, but that is an underground concern alas

The Blinders sound like the next 6Music Stinkers in line.

It's political music for 30-50 year olds who aren't ready for grime, would feel intimidated by the atmosphere at an inner-city queer or femme-punk gig, and like to headbang their way up the M4 when it comes on Radio 6 in the mornings.

I saw Idles live, found them v funny

I like grimy

I'm p sure they are not the enemy

lol, grime*

a former colleague of mine who is quite a lot younger than me posts on FB about this band constantly, seems to be part of a small-scale fandom/community around them and credits them with getting her through a period of mental health-related struggles. obviously that in itself says little to nothing about their musical merits but it does run counter to the 'imagine a person and then make fun of them' thing that DL is doing here

I think that’s a great point, Idles seem to be filling a need for a number of people and mean something to them, regardless of whether Idles themselves are radical enough.

I just clicked on Scott's video in the opening post and the singer disrespects Rothko in the song, and I thought fuck these plebs forever then!

I am more at peace w them being popular as a rare (albeit mediocre) UK rock band than being popular for their lyrical themes.

I'm p sure they are not the enemy

yeah this is my thing as well, so few bands made up of white cis dudes are making any kind of an effort at all, seems weird to pick on them for being a bit corny about it

a former colleague of mine who is quite a lot younger than me posts on FB about this band constantly, seems to be part of a small-scale fandom/community around them and credits them with getting her through a period of mental health-related struggles. obviously that in itself says little to nothing about their musical merits but it does run counter to the 'imagine a person and then make fun of them' thing that DL is doing here

― still wackford after all these squeers (DJ Mencap), Friday, September 21, 2018 11:57 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Mate, I wasn't imagining a person, I was talking about me

do ppl really not understand how truly well-intentioned people who are not "the enemy" can still be problematic in their own way?

of course, but the "problematic" elements seem pretty minor by rock music standards I guess?

and that if you are very heavy-handedly championing causes that you are not a part of, that you are prob going to be held to a certain level of scrutiny?

and that people who *are* a part of those causes might have opinions about it?

you are absolutely right in that these "problematic" elements are pretty minor by rock music standards
I am not approaching this by rock music standards
I am approaching this as a queer person watching straight people flirt with queerness and radical politics and other stuff in a way that feels very sus

in the grand scheme of things they are on the correct side and are fighting the good fight, there are so many other bands saying worse things and being shitty and all of them also deserve criticism
this band in particular bothers me because they hit a nerve that I'm particularly sensitive to and I really don't know how to explain this to someone who hasn't experienced it

do we actually know that they're all straight?

IIII've got a friend who's an imm-i-grant
The bloke at the shop is an imm-i-grant
IIII did a check on my family treee
My great great uncle was Czech app-a-rent-lyyy
I can say 'beer' in five different languages
I even put Kielbasa in my lunch-time sandwiches
Everything relates back to me me me
And if you don't like it you're the en-e-my

like I'm not sitting on some throne with a scowl on my face trying to scrutinize every single band for every single little thing, I'm not looking for things to get offended at, I don't expect that everyone on the planet needs to be perfect in every way, people are flawed, mistakes are made, people grow, etc, all of this is great, but there is something... maybe not wolf in sheeps clothingy per se, but just "off" about it, and expressing the offness and getting the response of "eh you're overthinking it, what's the big deal" just reinforces this

iirc they have said in interviews that they are all straight

expressing the offness and getting the response of "eh you're overthinking it, what's the big deal" just reinforces this

fwiw I totally get being particularly sensitive to certain issues and I'm not interested in being an apologist for anyone (nor have I listened to the new record more than in passing or have a particular attachment to them) so I should probably just bounce

I mean that's why I approached your criticism with the "you're write, there are some issues here" rather then just shut up about it. I just think that maybe I'm slightly less cynical about their motives.

Mate, I wasn't imagining a person, I was talking about me

― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:41 (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eh OK then. fyi inner city queer and femme punk gigs are not intimidating ime

I've just spent 5 minutes reading Idles lyrics on Genius and have concluded that they are simply a 2018 version of Carter USM

eh OK then. fyi inner city queer and femme punk gigs are not intimidating ime

― still wackford after all these squeers (DJ Mencap), Friday, September 21, 2018 3:08 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Heheh, I live in the city and I go to things like that. I wasn't making fun of the stereotype though, more saying that this is the audience who are starting to warm most to Idles: they're plugging a gap that needed filled.

I've just spent 5 minutes reading Idles lyrics on Genius and have concluded that they are simply a 2018 version of Carter USM

Pretty much yeah.

Sleaford Mods are in another level compared to Idles. Don't really deserve the comparison.

Wire at their most mediocre (as they are at present) are basically the prevailing standard in UK post-punk right now

they were bonkers on jools holland last week, sitting at his piano during their song, taking their mic upstairs and the lead singer doing a circuit of the studio during the instrumental bit. it was quite endearing. and the way he'd stamp his foot, to no audible effect.

they also look very disparate as a band, like all of them belong in other bands. kinda funny, but a big mess with it.

> a 2018 version of Carter USM

oof!

I've just spent 5 minutes reading Idles lyrics on Genius and have concluded that they are simply a 2018 version of Carter USM

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 21 September 2018 15:13 (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

To clarify on this point, they sound nothing like Carter USM, they just resemble them on a conceptual / lyrical basis. Sleaford Mods sound like Carter USM.

Here is a bit from an FT article on Carter which sums it up-

Before each single’s release there would be an item on the NME news page saying what Carter would be “dealing with” this time. “Anytime Anyplace Anywhere” “dealt with” alcoholism; “Bloodsport For All” “dealt with” racism in the army; “After The Watershed” “dealt with” child abuse; and so on. Dealing with an issue involved shouting about how bad it was, in an oblique sort of way which the Carter website calls ‘blackly humourous’ and which you could still jump up and down to.

Did these guys invent DadPunk or just perfect it?

No, wait, Rory McGrathcore

OMG.

I fucking LOVE THIS BAND.

I also love this band

I missed the recent DC show but won't miss the next one.

So... they covered Strokes Reptilia and Beatles Helter Skelter

https://youtu.be/ruhPJ87iitQ

not sure i understand the point of a deliberately terrible cover like that

some sort of beef with sleaford mods?

let me take this opportunity to restate how shit idles are

^^^an opinion about a band that is sure to attract notice on ilm

I tried w/ them and Fontaines DC and this wave of "comfort food post-punk bands" leaves me cold (except Protomartyr)

just so tepid

I don't know this band or Sleaford Mods, but it's roused the ire of Kenny Beats (the internet's favorite rap producer) fans

xxpost too funny, last night i tried Fontaines DC for the first time and about 2/3rds of the way through the album i switched over to Protomartyr and wallowed in how much they rule

I like Lithics, Nots, Viagra Boys, Priests, Pill and some others quite a bit but Idles and Fontaines DC are nowhere near skronky enough.

Stewart Lee's description of Idles as "snowflake Oi!" seems about right.

Truly baffled by Idles never understood it at all. Fontaines are decent here and there but the ‘songs’ just kind of go round and round don’t they? Sorta dirgey. Bafflingly popular with the broadsheets.

Bafflingly popular with young posh boys with autism claims, I already can't deal with them cunts

Clack-clack, clack-a-clang clang!
That's the sound of the gun going bang-bang

New album out yesterday.

I don't understand for the life of me the tepid reaction this band has received here, I think they're brilliant.

lol, i feel like everyone went apeshit for this band two years ago and now they are absolutely hated by the same group.

i don't know if it's a high-profile backlash but i can't remember one quite so violent and complete.

The new album is great. This is basically what I wanted from Andrew WK and never got.

DADPUNK

Glad to see some praise for the new album, hadn't played it yet but I was surprised by how harsh the Pfork pan was (though I guess they weren't all that sold on the last one either).

The Vulture piece was the worst I saw and I thought it was mostly bullshit.

"War" is as plodding as the last single I remember ("Mercedes Marxist"), which doesn't make me want to seek out the rest of the album.

glad to see pitchfork panning this shite, even though I can't them either!

you never them

honestly the P4k review elucidated everything I have thought abt them since the get-go, it was definitely harsh but not at all inaccurate

joyed to see 5 straight men continuing to flirt with queerness to "piss off the squares" or whatever the fuck

the harshness is unnecessary.

there are some people whom I often agree with stanning for this shit, but it is still fucking shit.

they're the Jonathan Pie of music

New album. The producion and arrangements are very good, the best they've made. Very interrsting and creative.
BUT Joe Talbot's songs are weak overall, sadly.

ctrl+f jesus lizard

no? nobody?

Something about their later stuff reminds me of Dropkick Murphys for some reason - plodding and shouty, maybe.

David Yow was on the last record from what i remember. One of those frustrating bands where i'm into some of the music but can't stand the vocals/lyrics.

They've really committed to being fast but boring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpvpJnR1MJk

“Roy” sounds like Coldplay