I haven't seen them live or heard the new album yet, but aren't women constantly saying (rightly) that the job of dismantling toxic masculinity etc. should be up to men, as opposed to falling to women? If that's the case, playing to an all-male audience with sentiments like that would be a feature, not a bug.
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, 20 September 2018 14:28 (five years ago) link
i would think that if you really wanted to dismantle toxic masculinity you might do so with maybe incorporating some sort of diversity? or making music that wasn't super aggressive and like beating yr chest w yr fist constantly throughout yr set?
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:02 (five years ago) link
I mean yeah I guess it's nice that someone is making music that appeals to horrible aggro dudes and the message is like "hey maybe be slightly less horrible and aggro" but this music feels very much, like, not for me. Which is fine.
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:03 (five years ago) link
There's plenty of aggro/fist-pumping stereotypically "dudely" music with subversive content - there's nothing inherent to the sonics that necessitates that it be ideologically primitive. See the anti-homophobia tunes on the recent Lich King and Kreator albums, or any of the new wave of explicitly anti-fash / anti-xenophobia black metallers. If the sonics in question aren't for you, that's of course completely fine, but I don't see why there has to be some kind of marriage of form and content as opposed to an interplay.
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:12 (five years ago) link
I mean, there's definitely merit to the criticism of lack of diverse openers and sure they've got an element of performativeness about them. But to me it feels less cynical then I guess it does to you. I think they mean well, and there's joyful naivity to their music that I find appealing. Which isn't to say your criticisms aren't on point, it just feels a little weirdly aggressive a criticism for a fairly harmless band who seem to be trying. I dunno, ymmv I guess.
"or making music that wasn't super aggressive and like beating yr chest w yr fist constantly throughout yr set?" This criticism seems weird to me, but I'll have to think on it more.
― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:31 (five years ago) link
ok ya these are good points and I am def coming to it w my own bullshit
As a gay man I have watched queerness become both safer, in terms of existing in the world (in my case a major US city), and also more fashionable, esp in terms of the way that queerness now gives one clout in a lot of types of social spaces. Inevitably I have also watched more straight ppl appropriating queerness in ways that benefit them but in a very "have your cake and eat it too" sort of way, so when I see a group of 5 men flaunting their hatred of homophobia, kissing each other in press photos to "challenge" people, make statements like "everyone is gay" also to challenge people, it 100% feels like people trying to take up space in my lane now that it's become safe and cool.
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 20 September 2018 16:35 (five years ago) link
I think at the end of the day I just accept that nothing about this is radical or challenging or interesting to me, that yes of course they are well-intentioned and maybe harmless but that this is music made for other ppl, maybe these ppl will benefit from it hopefully, idk
also re: the chest beating it feels disingenuous to talk about dismantling toxic masculinity and the patriarchy and all of that but then to center yr stage antics around, like, typical male aggression
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 20 September 2018 16:43 (five years ago) link
From the interviews I've heard/read, it seems a lot like Joe is working all this out as he goes along and seems to be keen to challenge himself. It doesn't seem like a fixed position.
― michaellambert, Thursday, 20 September 2018 19:19 (five years ago) link
these dudes are from my city and while I feel like I ought to support them as local music, I feel much the same as Stevie. when I saw them live it was like a ticklist of woke Facebook subjects by a bunch of gobby men in Moschino underpants trying to relive their rebellious teenage years
― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Thursday, 20 September 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link
but as I say, I kinda want to like them. they're a British rock band who are making a success and being (on a surface level) confrontational, which is a bit of a rarity nowadays.
i also find it interesting how many songs start with the word 'My'. 'My mother..' this or 'My brother in law' that. if the personal has become the political then this kind of takes it to the extreme.
i do find them a bit cringey though.
― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Thursday, 20 September 2018 19:43 (five years ago) link
Everything I've heard from them has been absolute shit but I dunno, they're clearly filling a vacuum. Question is why there's nothing better to fill it.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 20 September 2018 21:04 (five years ago) link
In that there's clearly a demand for political, confrontational, noisy music that addresses a lot of the current shit we're going through as a country*, people are positively desperate for it. But there don't seem to be enough bands who are both good enough and getting enough attention, so you get shit like Idles and Sleaford Mods taking up disproportionate amounts of attention in the absence of anything else.
(*By which I mean music primarily made by and for white people in the UK, it's obvious the country has been going through a sustained commercial and artistic boom for black British music).
― Matt DC, Thursday, 20 September 2018 21:11 (five years ago) link
I heard the record review show on 6music and they were going crazy for the new Idles single, also they seem to be Steve Lamacq's favourite band right now, I relay this information without comment.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 20 September 2018 21:46 (five years ago) link
I would only add that their previous album, which I did hear, was (iirc) snarky and bitter in the Mclusky mold, so clearly this thematic about-face is relatively new. (Which is not to impugn their motives or anything, just to reconfirm that they seem to still be figuring shit out.)
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, 20 September 2018 22:20 (five years ago) link
too bad there aren’t any noisy political confrontational punk bands that aren’t all straight white men (Los Crudos, Limp Wrist, GLOSS, S-21, HIRS, Downtown Boys, Pinkwash, Disipline)
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 21 September 2018 03:46 (five years ago) link
not sure what or who listing those groups was a riposte to but as someone who has the HIRS album as one of their favourites of 2018 to date I think that wondering why people are listening to a band that sound like Idles instead of a brutal tech-grindcore collective is kind of not that deep
― still wackford after all these squeers (DJ Mencap), Friday, 21 September 2018 06:17 (five years ago) link
Stevie those bands sound really cool and interesting (including Downtown Boys who I love) but every single one of them is from the US and not really relevant to the point I was making. The UK and US just have a fundamentally different relationship to rock music at this point in time.
From what I can tell they don't have anything to do with any kind of queer subculture in the UK and clearly aren't intended to be that band. They seem to be 'political' in the most surface level way, gesturing vaguely in the direction of a range of things including British attitudes to immigration, unemployment etc. Ticking off the woke checklist OTM.
What they *are* representative of is a small but ever present demographic (patron saint - Steve Lamacq) for whom the noisy bunch of enthusiastically oafish clowning twats represent the pinnacle of all music. Most of the time those bands are completely ignored by everyone else in the country - the fact that one of them has got even near the mainstream and that they're also sort of a bit political at the same time suggests a pent up demand, maybe a desperation for something that doesn't appear to exist in Britain right now.
I reiterate they sound like shit.
― Matt DC, Friday, 21 September 2018 07:45 (five years ago) link
― Matt DC, Thursday, 20 September 2018 21:11 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
new Suede out today! ;)
you're right though - outside of rap i can't think of much noisy, angry, successful UK music from recent years
― imago, Friday, 21 September 2018 08:21 (five years ago) link
It's 'Wooooah Je-re-my Cor-byn' the band though right?
Their song about immigration is literally 'some of my best friends are Polish'
― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Friday, 21 September 2018 08:31 (five years ago) link
But yeah, there is and always has been a hunger for 'proper' British rock music, especially rock music that actually, you know, 'rocks', and I think it's more the muscial format that appeals to people - the right-on agit-prop grandstanding is just the medium, the cherry on top that makes them stand out from other bands making a similar racket in small venues up and down the country (The Wytches come to mind).
It's political music for 30-50 year olds who aren't ready for grime, would feel intimidated by the atmosphere at an inner-city queer or femme-punk gig, and like to headbang their way up the M4 when it comes on Radio 6 in the mornings.
― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Friday, 21 September 2018 08:45 (five years ago) link
The Wytches are even worse than Idles.
― Matt DC, Friday, 21 September 2018 08:47 (five years ago) link
yeah, eeesh
― imago, Friday, 21 September 2018 08:50 (five years ago) link
of course, there's loads of good uk metal, but that is an underground concern alas
― imago, Friday, 21 September 2018 08:51 (five years ago) link
The Blinders sound like the next 6Music Stinkers in line.
― michaellambert, Friday, 21 September 2018 10:18 (five years ago) link
I saw Idles live, found them v funny
I like grimy
I'm p sure they are not the enemy
― niels, Friday, 21 September 2018 10:42 (five years ago) link
lol, grime*
a former colleague of mine who is quite a lot younger than me posts on FB about this band constantly, seems to be part of a small-scale fandom/community around them and credits them with getting her through a period of mental health-related struggles. obviously that in itself says little to nothing about their musical merits but it does run counter to the 'imagine a person and then make fun of them' thing that DL is doing here
― still wackford after all these squeers (DJ Mencap), Friday, 21 September 2018 10:57 (five years ago) link
I think that’s a great point, Idles seem to be filling a need for a number of people and mean something to them, regardless of whether Idles themselves are radical enough.
― michaellambert, Friday, 21 September 2018 12:04 (five years ago) link
I just clicked on Scott's video in the opening post and the singer disrespects Rothko in the song, and I thought fuck these plebs forever then!
― calzino, Friday, 21 September 2018 12:11 (five years ago) link
I am more at peace w them being popular as a rare (albeit mediocre) UK rock band than being popular for their lyrical themes.
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 21 September 2018 12:52 (five years ago) link
yeah this is my thing as well, so few bands made up of white cis dudes are making any kind of an effort at all, seems weird to pick on them for being a bit corny about it
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Friday, 21 September 2018 12:56 (five years ago) link
a former colleague of mine who is quite a lot younger than me posts on FB about this band constantly, seems to be part of a small-scale fandom/community around them and credits them with getting her through a period of mental health-related struggles. obviously that in itself says little to nothing about their musical merits but it does run counter to the 'imagine a person and then make fun of them' thing that DL is doing here― still wackford after all these squeers (DJ Mencap), Friday, September 21, 2018 11:57 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― still wackford after all these squeers (DJ Mencap), Friday, September 21, 2018 11:57 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Mate, I wasn't imagining a person, I was talking about me
― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:41 (five years ago) link
do ppl really not understand how truly well-intentioned people who are not "the enemy" can still be problematic in their own way?
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:43 (five years ago) link
of course, but the "problematic" elements seem pretty minor by rock music standards I guess?
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:44 (five years ago) link
and that if you are very heavy-handedly championing causes that you are not a part of, that you are prob going to be held to a certain level of scrutiny?
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:44 (five years ago) link
and that people who *are* a part of those causes might have opinions about it?
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:45 (five years ago) link
you are absolutely right in that these "problematic" elements are pretty minor by rock music standardsI am not approaching this by rock music standardsI am approaching this as a queer person watching straight people flirt with queerness and radical politics and other stuff in a way that feels very sus
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:46 (five years ago) link
in the grand scheme of things they are on the correct side and are fighting the good fight, there are so many other bands saying worse things and being shitty and all of them also deserve criticismthis band in particular bothers me because they hit a nerve that I'm particularly sensitive to and I really don't know how to explain this to someone who hasn't experienced it
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:47 (five years ago) link
do we actually know that they're all straight?
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:48 (five years ago) link
IIII've got a friend who's an imm-i-grantThe bloke at the shop is an imm-i-grantIIII did a check on my family treee My great great uncle was Czech app-a-rent-lyyyI can say 'beer' in five different languagesI even put Kielbasa in my lunch-time sandwichesEverything relates back to me me meAnd if you don't like it you're the en-e-my
― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:49 (five years ago) link
like I'm not sitting on some throne with a scowl on my face trying to scrutinize every single band for every single little thing, I'm not looking for things to get offended at, I don't expect that everyone on the planet needs to be perfect in every way, people are flawed, mistakes are made, people grow, etc, all of this is great, but there is something... maybe not wolf in sheeps clothingy per se, but just "off" about it, and expressing the offness and getting the response of "eh you're overthinking it, what's the big deal" just reinforces this
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:52 (five years ago) link
iirc they have said in interviews that they are all straight
expressing the offness and getting the response of "eh you're overthinking it, what's the big deal" just reinforces this
fwiw I totally get being particularly sensitive to certain issues and I'm not interested in being an apologist for anyone (nor have I listened to the new record more than in passing or have a particular attachment to them) so I should probably just bounce
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:55 (five years ago) link
I mean that's why I approached your criticism with the "you're write, there are some issues here" rather then just shut up about it. I just think that maybe I'm slightly less cynical about their motives.
― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Friday, 21 September 2018 14:08 (five years ago) link
― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:41 (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
eh OK then. fyi inner city queer and femme punk gigs are not intimidating ime
― still wackford after all these squeers (DJ Mencap), Friday, 21 September 2018 14:08 (five years ago) link
I've just spent 5 minutes reading Idles lyrics on Genius and have concluded that they are simply a 2018 version of Carter USM
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 21 September 2018 14:13 (five years ago) link
eh OK then. fyi inner city queer and femme punk gigs are not intimidating ime― still wackford after all these squeers (DJ Mencap), Friday, September 21, 2018 3:08 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― still wackford after all these squeers (DJ Mencap), Friday, September 21, 2018 3:08 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Heheh, I live in the city and I go to things like that. I wasn't making fun of the stereotype though, more saying that this is the audience who are starting to warm most to Idles: they're plugging a gap that needed filled.
― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Friday, 21 September 2018 14:19 (five years ago) link
Pretty much yeah.
― Matt DC, Friday, 21 September 2018 14:20 (five years ago) link
Sleaford Mods are in another level compared to Idles. Don't really deserve the comparison.
― Hinklepicker, Friday, 21 September 2018 20:47 (five years ago) link
Wire at their most mediocre (as they are at present) are basically the prevailing standard in UK post-punk right now
― imago, Friday, 21 September 2018 21:06 (five years ago) link
I know this is the thread for people who don't trust themselves to criticise a record without shitting up a thread, but the Idles thread is literally unshituppable so maybe we should do this over there.― Matt DC, Friday, 7 December 2018 10:38 (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Matt DC, Friday, 7 December 2018 10:38 (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 7 December 2018 10:56 (five years ago) link
I've just spent 5 minutes reading Idles lyrics on Genius and have concluded that they are simply a 2018 version of Carter USM― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 21 September 2018 15:13 (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 21 September 2018 15:13 (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
To clarify on this point, they sound nothing like Carter USM, they just resemble them on a conceptual / lyrical basis. Sleaford Mods sound like Carter USM.
Here is a bit from an FT article on Carter which sums it up-
Before each single’s release there would be an item on the NME news page saying what Carter would be “dealing with” this time. “Anytime Anyplace Anywhere” “dealt with” alcoholism; “Bloodsport For All” “dealt with” racism in the army; “After The Watershed” “dealt with” child abuse; and so on. Dealing with an issue involved shouting about how bad it was, in an oblique sort of way which the Carter website calls ‘blackly humourous’ and which you could still jump up and down to.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 7 December 2018 11:02 (five years ago) link
Did these guys invent DadPunk or just perfect it?
― biliares now living will never buey (Noodle Vague), Friday, 7 December 2018 12:23 (five years ago) link
No, wait, Rory McGrathcore
― biliares now living will never buey (Noodle Vague), Friday, 7 December 2018 12:48 (five years ago) link
OMG.
― Matt DC, Friday, 7 December 2018 13:01 (five years ago) link
I fucking LOVE THIS BAND.
― Alex in NYC, Thursday, 10 January 2019 22:20 (five years ago) link
I also love this band
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Thursday, 2 January 2020 17:08 (four years ago) link
I missed the recent DC show but won't miss the next one.
― Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 2 January 2020 20:40 (four years ago) link
So... they covered Strokes Reptilia and Beatles Helter Skelter
https://youtu.be/ruhPJ87iitQ
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 31 August 2020 04:30 (three years ago) link
not sure i understand the point of a deliberately terrible cover like that
― ufo, Monday, 31 August 2020 07:40 (three years ago) link
some sort of beef with sleaford mods?
let me take this opportunity to restate how shit idles are
― imago, Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:15 (three years ago) link
^^^an opinion about a band that is sure to attract notice on ilm
― imago, Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:16 (three years ago) link
I tried w/ them and Fontaines DC and this wave of "comfort food post-punk bands" leaves me cold (except Protomartyr)
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:18 (three years ago) link
just so tepid
― imago, Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:19 (three years ago) link
I don't know this band or Sleaford Mods, but it's roused the ire of Kenny Beats (the internet's favorite rap producer) fans
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:32 (three years ago) link
xxpost too funny, last night i tried Fontaines DC for the first time and about 2/3rds of the way through the album i switched over to Protomartyr and wallowed in how much they rule
― alpine static, Thursday, 10 September 2020 23:02 (three years ago) link
I like Lithics, Nots, Viagra Boys, Priests, Pill and some others quite a bit but Idles and Fontaines DC are nowhere near skronky enough.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Friday, 11 September 2020 00:48 (three years ago) link
Stewart Lee's description of Idles as "snowflake Oi!" seems about right.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Friday, 11 September 2020 00:57 (three years ago) link
Truly baffled by Idles never understood it at all. Fontaines are decent here and there but the ‘songs’ just kind of go round and round don’t they? Sorta dirgey. Bafflingly popular with the broadsheets.
― piscesx, Friday, 11 September 2020 01:37 (three years ago) link
Bafflingly popular with young posh boys with autism claims, I already can't deal with them cunts
― Jonathan Hellion Mumble, Friday, 11 September 2020 03:30 (three years ago) link
Clack-clack, clack-a-clang clang!That's the sound of the gun going bang-bang
― groovypanda, Friday, 25 September 2020 08:16 (three years ago) link
New album out yesterday.
I don't understand for the life of me the tepid reaction this band has received here, I think they're brilliant.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Saturday, 26 September 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
lol, i feel like everyone went apeshit for this band two years ago and now they are absolutely hated by the same group.
i don't know if it's a high-profile backlash but i can't remember one quite so violent and complete.
― alpine static, Sunday, 27 September 2020 07:11 (three years ago) link
The new album is great. This is basically what I wanted from Andrew WK and never got.
― shout-out to his family (DJP), Sunday, 27 September 2020 17:02 (three years ago) link
DADPUNK
― Mille scampeaux (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 27 September 2020 17:03 (three years ago) link
Glad to see some praise for the new album, hadn't played it yet but I was surprised by how harsh the Pfork pan was (though I guess they weren't all that sold on the last one either).
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 28 September 2020 22:03 (three years ago) link
The Vulture piece was the worst I saw and I thought it was mostly bullshit.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Monday, 28 September 2020 23:23 (three years ago) link
"War" is as plodding as the last single I remember ("Mercedes Marxist"), which doesn't make me want to seek out the rest of the album.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Tuesday, 29 September 2020 00:17 (three years ago) link
glad to see pitchfork panning this shite, even though I can't them either!
― calzino, Tuesday, 29 September 2020 00:32 (three years ago) link
you never them
― here we go, ten in a rona (onimo), Tuesday, 29 September 2020 19:42 (three years ago) link
honestly the P4k review elucidated everything I have thought abt them since the get-go, it was definitely harsh but not at all inaccurate
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Tuesday, 29 September 2020 19:46 (three years ago) link
joyed to see 5 straight men continuing to flirt with queerness to "piss off the squares" or whatever the fuck
― vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Tuesday, 29 September 2020 19:47 (three years ago) link
the harshness is unnecessary.
― DT, Tuesday, 29 September 2020 23:20 (three years ago) link
there are some people whom I often agree with stanning for this shit, but it is still fucking shit.
― calzino, Tuesday, 29 September 2020 23:43 (three years ago) link
they're the Jonathan Pie of music
― Specific Ocean Blue (dog latin), Tuesday, 29 September 2020 23:46 (three years ago) link
New album. The producion and arrangements are very good, the best they've made. Very interrsting and creative.BUT Joe Talbot's songs are weak overall, sadly.
― nostormo, Friday, 12 November 2021 09:16 (two years ago) link
ctrl+f jesus lizard
no? nobody?
― StanM, Monday, 4 July 2022 16:53 (one year ago) link
Something about their later stuff reminds me of Dropkick Murphys for some reason - plodding and shouty, maybe.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 4 July 2022 20:58 (one year ago) link
David Yow was on the last record from what i remember. One of those frustrating bands where i'm into some of the music but can't stand the vocals/lyrics.
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Tuesday, 5 July 2022 08:21 (one year ago) link
They've really committed to being fast but boring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpvpJnR1MJk
― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 10 December 2022 20:35 (one year ago) link
“Roy” sounds like Coldplay
― papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 23 February 2024 20:11 (one month ago) link