Mitski

mitski is an extremely intelligent person who is great in interviews and on social media :)

also this record is one of my favourites of 2018!

for what it's worth this record is nothing like the film she mentioned, I'm sure it was an influence in some 25-dimensional chess way but it also has a very dark ending (at least the book does) that has no corresponding part in the record

where is this film interview? i'd been thinking about how vivid the imagery on this album is (coupled with the music videos too) and been wondering how much she thought about that kind of big picture focus for everything related to the record

nvm, found it. im unfamiliar with the film she's talking about but interested in listening to the album with a different perspective

mitskkkkkiiiiiii

I've heard a bit of the new one and like it. Where's the best place to start in her prior work?

makeout creek

i am in between considering her teenage, music for brats (especially after the time i saw her throw a tantrum for the entire duration of a show) yet the emotional magnitude and lyrical delivery redeems her work for me.

good to know

imagine writing any of that shit about a man

(especially after the time i saw her throw a tantrum for the entire duration of a show)

Do tell!

Brad otm

if Mitski is music for brats, i'm a 100% certified brat.

So you're saying an artist has a difficult personality, yet her work manages to be redeemed by its own quality?

Not to divert from the thread too much, I totally understand throwing a tantrum at one point on a tour. Shit must be so very exhausting, physically and emotionally, probably even more so if you are a young artist.

I've seen countless people throw tantrums for much less and usually they end up with all the appropriate forgiveness.

sorry, my humble opinion has nothing to do with gender or personality, just her music. lyrically its undeniable teenage, whiny and lacking depth "im not gonna be what my daddy wants me to be"; "mom, am i still young"; "i am a forest fire"; "kisses like pink cotton candy"; "holding hands under the table"; 'i just want someone to kiss, i'm lonely...', etc, yet her delivery is sincere and the production is flattering, on record, at least.

truly appalling take, really quite an accomplishment

the language associated with cliched teen experiences -- "makeout creek" etc -- shouldn't be taken at face value

sorry, my humble opinion has nothing to do with gender or personality, just her music. lyrically its undeniable teenage, whiny and lacking depth "im not gonna be what my daddy wants me to be"; "mom, am i still young"; "i am a forest fire"; "kisses like pink cotton candy"; "holding hands under the table"; 'i just want someone to kiss, i'm lonely...', etc, yet her delivery is sincere and the production is flattering, on record, at least.

I don't get how teens would choose these images.

loneliness isn't a serious issue for most people after age 18

what

joke

i don't really understand why i'm slated for saying that i really want to like her music, have enjoyed it for a few spins, bought a ticket to see her, but i find the lack of depth and doesnt keep me returning to listen. sorry if i come across like a funny fucker.

well yes one of her most celebrated records is called Puberty

Puberty 2, my bad.

Usually she spins those clichés of teenage romances on their head, the tension situated in her wanting to be part of this 'all american girl world' and not being able to be part of the club or does she even want too. It is a good way to express every day anxieties and sadness of social life and career choices. Those teenage years realities have a way to stay relevant to our personality for a long time. I don't think it's whiny or lacking depth, it resonates with a lot of people. In Be the Cowboy it's all a little more adult than on Puberty 2 but it works the same way, at least to me.

I feel like she mines a lot of the same lyrical territory as Elliott Smith or Cat Power, and I don't think anyone has ever accused either of them in lacking in depth. So many Nirvana songs about high school... you could go on and on...

i was gonna mention kurt cobain as a good example of a writer who carried teenage angst with depth and lyricism. as for elliott, mitski's songwriting is a thousand miles from his lyrical (and musical) virtuosity. she couldn't even tune her guitar when i saw her play... but yeah, puberty LP has some alright songs.

Supposedly it paid off well

i was gonna mention kurt cobain as a good example of a writer who carried teenage angst with depth and lyricism

A lot of Cobain's lyrics are so vague/veiled that you can really take away whatever meaning you want to from them. I like Mitski's more direct approach better. It's completely relatable, yet stops short of Taylor Swift's lyrical livejournaling.

I relate to Cobain's lyrics far more than to Mitski's, for the very reasons you mentioned.

I don't get "relating" to lyrics. They're someone else's stories, for the most part, even fictionalized. They evoke that act's particular reality well or they don't.

I relate to lyrics that don't expect me to relate to a given 'I', whether overtly fictive or 'real'. I relate to there being no one to relate to (it's not nothing, though).

I don't get "relating" to lyrics. They're someone else's stories, for the most part, even fictionalized. They evoke that act's particular reality well or they don't.

Isn't it possible to relate to someone else's stories?

this revive is even worse than the one where i wrote matt dc a longread

i don't particularly relate to any of mitski's songs but i think she's a good songwriter and storyteller. "i bet on losing dogs" is devastating without it ever having to resemble my own life

Oh, yeah, when I do relate to lyrics, it's usually in the sense of "empathizing", not in the sense of "this song is about me".

any good resonant art imo we should see a wider picture than just ourselves in, and anytime as a critic my first reaction is "i relate to this" i work v hard to get outside of it bc it seems a v solipsistic relationship to have with art and that it doesn't necessarily inform anybody else of why that art is good

quite

Isn't it possible to relate to someone else's stories?

― The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r)

I think that's what I said?

My reaction to "relate" reminds me of the anecdote Orson Welles told about filming The VIPs: when the director told him to "relate to those windows," Welles responds, "Anthony, you mean you want me to look at them?"

Anyway, as a gay man I live in a listening world where 98 percent of songs aren't for or about me, therefore treating songs as narratives as foreign as a Thomas Hardy Wessex novel became my default position. When I hear an overtly gay song by, say, Troye Sivan or Pet Shop Boys, my guard goes up for reasons Brad mentioned.

I'm willing to believe that most songs are about heterosexual love, but 98%?

Better to be paranoid than sorry.

I wonder if there is some element of irony in her whole lyrical thang. Towards the end of “Be The Cowboy”, there are about four songs in a row where the phrase “kiss me” pops up in the first line or two. In any event, it’s an excellent album, and “Come into the Water” in particular has as sublime a melody as has been composed in recent years.

Tbf the 'I relate to this song' trope is less annoying than 'I totally relate to this character'.

i think i agree with that

Listening to Mitski for the first time (be the cowboy) ... anyone else get a bit of Margo Guryan vibe? in the vocal melody and chord choices?