Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here

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fighting = fight 16x a year

gbx, Sunday, 16 September 2018 23:29 (five years ago) link

I'm not convinced Wilbur Ross's trade policy is bad.

I'm also not convinced it's actually conservative.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 03:33 (five years ago) link

by "Ross's trade policy" do you mean tariffs and trade wars, or something different?

i don't really know anything about trade policy, but the consensus seems to be that tariffs as a primary component of trade policy is an idea that was discredited around WWII. then again, those policies were gradually made obsolete by things like WTO and whatever system of international trade that's in place right now, which seems to lead to, among other things, terrible working conditions and environmental degradation in much of the world so that western people can buy cheaper electronic goods. but i'm not sure that means that going back to tariffs and the like is a good idea, either.

Karl Malone, Sunday, 23 September 2018 19:25 (five years ago) link

three months pass...

i have a better take on "fishbowl fascism"

human sacrifice is an important part of maintaining the social order and we should bring it back

errang (rushomancy), Sunday, 6 January 2019 11:43 (five years ago) link

and by "better" i mean of course "more horrifying"

errang (rushomancy), Sunday, 6 January 2019 11:44 (five years ago) link

I kinda think assassinating politicians is a bad thing. Apparently that's hopelessly centrist now.

Frederik B, Sunday, 6 January 2019 11:52 (five years ago) link

In other words, not conservative.

Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Sunday, 6 January 2019 13:10 (five years ago) link

i roll my eyes a little when people say that twitter should ban a sitting US president from the platform

marcos, Friday, 18 January 2019 17:56 (five years ago) link

tbh it would be less of an issue if it weren't because @jack is a literal nazi sympathizer

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Friday, 18 January 2019 17:57 (five years ago) link

eight months pass...

I find the liberal obsession with precocious child activists to be obnoxious and vain.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 15:38 (four years ago) link

how many of them are there?

Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 15:39 (four years ago) link

if you're referring to thunberg - and you surely are - she's not exactly "precocious" so much as righteously furious:
https://ktla.com/2019/09/23/how-dare-you-teen-activist-greta-thunberg-asks-world-leaders-at-un-climate-session/
and vilified:
https://tvline.com/2019/09/24/greta-thunberg-fox-news-apology-autism-comment-video/

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 15:43 (four years ago) link

tbf the conservative obsession with precocious child activists is much worse.

Yerac, Tuesday, 24 September 2019 15:46 (four years ago) link

sure, and the liberal version is harmless by comparison. It just seems to really skirt the edge of naivete and magical thinking.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 15:55 (four years ago) link

I kinda get where you are coming from but w/r/t climate change the fact of youth/childhood is the whole point

The Ravishing of ROFL Stein (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 15:57 (four years ago) link

with school shootings, too, obv it makes sense that kids are among the more vocal/visible voices

The Ravishing of ROFL Stein (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 15:57 (four years ago) link

Also I hate a world that only adultifies children in order to put them in jail or to rationalize sex with them.

Yerac, Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:00 (four years ago) link

my uncool liberal belief is that using precocious children as the voice of an advertising campaign is deeply fucked up, on the same level as taking them to any church that teaches about eternal damnation for sinners

the second half of that is my cool liberal belief though

Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:18 (four years ago) link

Greta Thunberg is 16, she can vote in 2 years

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:21 (four years ago) link

like the welch's girl?

Yerac, Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:22 (four years ago) link

xpost

Yerac, Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:22 (four years ago) link

yes, like the welch's girl, although in the case of the welch's children, i guess i can believe that they truly love welch's beverages. just like they also like making fart noises at recess.

but it bugs me much more when the children are selling automobiles, or low-interest loans, or making connections between an insurance company and the history of a baseball team and a city. i don't think it's emotionally scarring to the child, not on the same level that making them believe in hell is scarring, but it's just weird to exploit the voice of an ignorant child for corporate gain

Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:34 (four years ago) link

yeah, all of your responses are reasonable and I can't really rationalize my visceral reaction to it. But something about it all reminds me too much of that Clara Jeffrey tweet about her woke 6 year old (even though that's not really a fair comparison since Greta and the Parkland kids are high school age), or I guess just everything awful about clickbait/twitter culture ("This 16 year old DESTROYS Climage Change Deniers") and also just general despair at how little this is probably going to wind up mattering and the feeling that liberals are pinning false hopes on fuzzy feel-good stories about spunky teens.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:46 (four years ago) link

And also, connected to the last two things, excessive liberal faith in grandiose statements of moral outrage as effective politics.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:47 (four years ago) link

its totally fucked up how france used joan of arc to relieve the siege of orleans

imago, Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:47 (four years ago) link

or I guess just everything awful about clickbait/twitter culture ("This 16 year old DESTROYS Climage Change Deniers") and also just general despair at how little this is probably going to wind up mattering and the feeling that liberals are pinning false hopes on fuzzy feel-good stories about spunky teens.

i think it's more the former (clickbait) than any sort of "liberal" thing about precocious children. all these bullshit websites have to have content every single day or they'll go out of business even earlier than they would have otherwise. and so we have more precocious children DESTROYING people, in addition to former hollywood stars that you wouldn't BELIEVE how much plastic surgery they've had, plus pics of rock-solid bods at the beach

Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:52 (four years ago) link

i guess it's true that liberal audiences are more likely to listen to a precocious child delivering a message on a relative topic (like climate change or guns in schools) and actually take them seriously.

conservatives occasionally give the stage to children, but it's usually for shit like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPRfP_TEQ-g

Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:54 (four years ago) link

by the way, ^^^ is one of the most fucked up things that has ever happened, and it happened over and over

Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 16:55 (four years ago) link

I was surprised that Thunberg is 16 when I saw it.... she looks younger to me but I'm also at an age where everyone under 25 looks like they are babies, but I wonder if her look has something to do with the reaction

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 17:01 (four years ago) link

the fact that she's a blond white girl has something to do with it yes

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 17:08 (four years ago) link

Greta Thunberg is good. She’s a kid but she knows what she is talking about and she lives by her convictions—more than I can say for nearly every adult I know.

treeship., Tuesday, 24 September 2019 17:31 (four years ago) link

I think even she is kind of disgusted by the fact that it took her—a precocious kid—to get the world’s attention, rather than the facts. But she is using her platform regardless. Integrity I think.

treeship., Tuesday, 24 September 2019 17:32 (four years ago) link

Uh, she's not blonde.

Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 17:35 (four years ago) link

eh, whatever, I dont' know colors

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 18:00 (four years ago) link

I have images/videos turned off and I knew before clicking through exactly what KM's video would be.

Welcome To My Lifemare (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby) at 12:08 24 Sep 19

the fact that she's a blond white has younger something to do with it yes

I meant the conservative reaction trying to discredit her views, calling her a "mentally ill child" etc I think it's easier because she looks younger than she is, also the other side of liberals looking at her like this precious child telling the hard truths

it has been my understanding that race affects how ppl are perceived but thanks for the reminder

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 18:22 (four years ago) link

I was surprised that Thunberg is 16 when I saw it.... she looks younger to me

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/greta-thunberg-climate-change-movement.html
As a young child, she says, she was diagnosed not only with Asperger’s but obsessive-compulsive disorder and what’s called “selective mutism.” Beginning at age 11, seized by a deep depression about the fate of the world, she stopped talking and eating. That has led, she says, to the stunted growth that today gives her the appearance of a preteen, a wise-beyond-her-years golden child.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 18:33 (four years ago) link

thunberg is really more Cassandra than clickbait as far as i have been able to ascertain but who knows, everybody gets milkshake ducked sooner or later

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 18:34 (four years ago) link

Thunberg's aneurotypicality makes her an easy target for olds of all types who seem inclined to consider her more mentally ill than realistically terrified for the future of her generation, which is part of why she's had such an international impact. Who can't sympathize with the idea that the prior generations have fucked the world up? She may just be more right than we ever were and she's got the citations to prove it.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 18:37 (four years ago) link

I have images/videos turned off and I knew before clicking through exactly what KM's video would be.

― Welcome To My Lifemare (Old Lunch)

it's fun down here in living hell, isn't it?

Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 18:38 (four years ago) link

xp that all said, man alive i do understand your exasperation with so-called grown ups with power asking an indigo brigade to save us from ourselves; that kind of slacktivism is surely a bad look

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 18:38 (four years ago) link

That was the theme of greta’s speech yesterday!

treeship., Tuesday, 24 September 2019 19:11 (four years ago) link

IIRC the children's lawsuit is specifically based on the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, so children are exactly who should be talking about it.

It's in addition to activist adults, not instead of.

Ramen? No thanks, I prefer them cooked (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 19:17 (four years ago) link

"This is all wrong. I shouldn't be up here. I should be back in school on the other side of the ocean. Yet you all come to us young people for hope. How dare you!"
xp

treeship., Tuesday, 24 September 2019 19:17 (four years ago) link

yeah, her self-awareness is a large part of the reason i am #teamgreta

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 24 September 2019 19:25 (four years ago) link

excessive liberal faith in grandiose statements of moral outrage as effective politics

don't you ride for bernie sanders?

flopson, Tuesday, 24 September 2019 19:42 (four years ago) link

Sorry to disappoint but my “contrarian” take on Greta Thunberg is that I can sympathize with her plight as an annoying moralist who’s definitely on the spectrum and has an impressively low BMI

— Anna Khachiyan (@annakhachiyan) September 24, 2019

flopson, Tuesday, 24 September 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link

I don’t know if I’d call the Red Scare ladies “moralists”

treeship., Tuesday, 24 September 2019 19:54 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

latinx okay i get it but i still think it is kind of dumb

― marcos, Monday, August 29, 2016 11:21 AM (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink

sorry to drag up this very old post but i agree with this opinion regarding latin x and sort of agree with the thrust of this article by ross fucking douthat lol

Liberalism’s Latinx Problem

Why is Elizabeth Warren describing Latinos with a term that few would use themselves?

Everyone remembers the image that demonstrated Donald Trump’s cluelessness about Hispanic voters: the picture, from May 2016, showing him grinning like a fool over a tortilla bowl, with the immortal tweet attached: “Happy #CincodeMayo! The best taco bowls are made in Trump Tower Grill. I love Hispanics!”

That Trump tweet received entirely deserved scorn from practically everyone in my profession. On the other hand, nobody save a few carping conservatives found anything unusual when Elizabeth Warren, possible Democratic front-runner, began conducting her outreach to Hispanic voters using the term “Latinx.” (Though she did take a little flack, after the first Democratic debate, for pronouncing it “Latin-X.”)

But if Warren’s linguistic move seemed normal to journalists — in our world, the phrase “Latinx” is increasingly commonplace — it’s still a curious one for a politician doing outreach. There’s very little evidence that “Latinx” is a thing that many Hispanics or Latinos call themselves, at least in the kind of numbers that normally determine how political candidates talk.

“Though Latinx is becoming common in social media and in academic writing,” a recent Merriam-Webster “words we’re watching” entry noted, “it is unclear whether it will catch on in mainstream use.” And last week a progressive pollster ran the numbers and found that it hasn’t caught on at all: “Despite its usage by academics and cultural influencers, 98 percent of Latinos prefer other terms to describe their ethnicity. Only 2 percent of our respondents said the label accurately describes them, making it the least popular ethnic label among Latinos.”

Beyond its novelty, there are obvious reasons for that stark unpopularity: When spoken, “Latinx” sounds like neither normal English nor conversational Spanish, and it looks like what it is, a word designed for ideological purposes rather than for felicity in speech. If you are deep inside progressive discourse, you will immediately understand those purposes — “dismantling the default masculine” of romance languages, centering gender neutrality or nonbinariness in place of a cisgender heteronormativity. If you are outside that discourse, politicians who use it will sound like they don’t know how to say “Latino,” or like they’re talking to an audience that doesn’t really include you.

Which, for a politician, seems like a bit of a problem. One of the common defenses of political correctness is that it’s just a synonym for politeness, for calling people what they themselves want to be called and showing sensitivity to minority experiences and burdens that men or white people don’t share. Which is sometimes true: The example of white people whining that they don’t get to say the “N-word,” for instance, shows how anti-P.C. sentiment can sometimes reflect a desire to ignore history and flip common decency the bird.

But just as often the language of P.C. has more to do with imposing elite norms of discourse on a wider population that neither necessarily wants them nor fully understands their purpose. This is a particular issue as highly educated white liberals become more progressive on racial issues than many African-Americans and Hispanics; in that context the language that dominates progressivism often emerges out of a dialogue among minority activists and academics and well-meaning white liberals, without much engagement with the larger minority population, its assumptions and habits and beliefs.

That lack of engagement turns the politeness argument on its head. It is certainly polite, if you operate in a social world where most people of Latin-American descent describe themselves as Latinx, to use the word in conversation and correspondence. But in their public-facing rhetoric, Democratic politicians are speaking to people who mostly don’t use that word, don’t prefer it to other labels and may not even recognize it. So a politician who uses it, especially a white politician who uses it, may come across as condescending, jargon-dependent and, well, rude.

This weekend I wrote about how the increasingly ideological character of the Democratic Party could create a policy problem for its presidential nominee, by forcing a figure like Warren into a detailed defense of a likely-to-be-unpopular, unlikely-to-pass proposal for Medicare for All. Warren’s adoption of “Latinx” is a different example of this problem: There’s no policy here, but the rhetoric still suggests that Warren is distinctively beholden to a hermetic academic-progressive world, to a point where she doesn’t know how to talk to the less-ideological, less-woke, maybe-even-somewhat-conservative Hispanics whose votes her party needs.

[Listen to “The Argument” podcast every Thursday morning, with Ross Douthat, Michelle Goldberg and David Leonhardt.]

One question about a more progressive Democratic nominee, Warren or Bernie Sanders, is whether either can win back white Obama-Trump voters in the crucial Electoral College states of the Upper Midwest — states where Warren, in this newspaper’s polling, currently trails Trump. But a related question is whether progressivism can succeed in consolidating the larger share of the Hispanic vote that Democrats expected in 2016 and didn’t get — an 80 percent rather than close to a 70 percent share, which would tip states like Florida and Arizona and even Texas and make Trump’s Rust Belt resilience moot.

It’s possible, as many progressive activists insist, that the way to achieve that consolidation is by energizing and organizing nonvoters through a campaign that runs clearly to the left. But a lot of Trump-era polling shows the president holding or even expanding his Hispanic support, and it shows Warren, in particular, struggling with Latino voters, both in the primary and the general races.

Which is what you’d expect if, as my colleague Tom Edsall has argued, Hispanics (and African-Americans and Asians) now represent the moderate wing of the Democratic Party, the pocketbook-conscious, somewhat culturally conservative flank. In that case they’re a constituency where a less-bigoted-seeming G.O.P. could make substantial inroads, and where even a figure like Trump, if the economy is strong enough and the Democrat seems sufficiently culturally extreme, can at least win enough minority support to keep himself competitive.

This is why it matters that the signals that Warren sends when she adopts a phrase like “Latinx” are the cultural equivalent of the policy signal that she sends with Medicare for All. In both cases, she’s telling anyone who listens that a vote for the Democrats isn’t just a vote against Trump (which a clear majority would like to cast) or a vote for popular liberal policies (of which there are many) but a vote for the new progressivism in full — no matter how many Americans, of all ethnicities, are distinctly unready for its rigors.

ت (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 19:11 (four years ago) link

TS: using Latinx vs running concentration camps

DJI, Wednesday, 6 November 2019 19:20 (four years ago) link


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