pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

maybe this is just my experience having been an extremely online music nerd teen a decade ago but digging through various p4k best of lists was certainly pretty formative for discovering music beyond Muse

― ufo, Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:54 AM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this was true for teenaged-me too fwiw

(the only real complaint I have about lists in general, as A Thing, is that generally people's criteria for adding something to this kind of list include that a specific record must have had some kind of influence on other musicians, the world, etc. which is understandable but does lead to a self-reinforcing aspect, because the way records get that influence is via lists like these, and so on.)

Also its insane to say that Peter Gabriel's three 80s records had no impact on the hipster zeitgeist of the last 15 years

Like I said, I haven't looked at this list, but I can guarantee there's no Chameleons, no Sound, no Feelies, etc. I name these bands because they're among my favorites, but if we're going to just go off retroactive "how influential was this?" kind of rankings, those bands need to be repped for. But they never will be. Not on lists like this.

xxp It's broad and inclusive from a specifically UK/US viewpoint though, right? I mean, I think I counted two albums in the top 50 that weren't US or UK and those were both from Ireland. There's nothing wrong with that - in fact (as noted upthread by various people) part of the fun of these things is understanding more about what the people making the list think is cool.

It's certainly broader than their previous 100 but lobbing in a tiny handful of African (or even Jamaican!) releases into the lower reaches of the list feels like thoughtless, token nods at breadth. Of course, it's actually a reflection that the majority of the contributors from a particular (cultural) place and time. I realise it's not exactly a news story that most Pitchfork contribs aren't terribly interested in (say) African music from the 80s. But I do think we should keep in mind that the list's "breadth" is pretty bounded.

Anyway these lists are fun for disagreeing with, that's what I use them for.

Gabriel not on Spotify until this summer also a factor.

Many xposts

Ah, I must have missed that Melt was on there

Feelies are at #107

And truly, if we're going down that route of "obscure, but really influential" albums, Shrimp Boat's Speckly should be in the top twenty. But again, that will never happen.

if anyone needs the list written out so they can quickly ctrl+f before posting http://www.brooklynvegan.com/pitchfork-lists-the-200-best-albums-of-the-1980s/

Gabriel not on Spotify until this summer also a factor.

How can you possibly not realize that it is a legit reason?

xxp bless

fuck spotify

for the record

If *professional music writers* are going to Milhouse.gif because they have to spend like $2 for a used CD to hear PETER GABRIEL then their opinion is worthless imo

I'm not judging, I'm acknowledging a reality.

I’m not saying everyone has to be some Steve Hoffman dork wiping the static from their VG+ Van Der Graff Generator vinyl, I’m saying, like jump the tiniest hurdle to hear one of the most acclaimed art-rockers there ever was

I'm not judging, I'm acknowledging a reality.

Keep that dream alive, Chris.

https://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/397/C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg

It could also mean that this Pitchfork group is unaware of Peter Gabriel or gives even less of a shit about Peter Gabriel than the previous group.

great thread

I mean I have my problems with P4k but I’d like to believe they haven’t replaced Mark Richardson with a gaggle of kids dependent on a single tech company for their understanding of music

Also Peter Gabriel did the Wall E song

this thread is cranky dad mania

did Weird Al make anyone's ballot?

let's be honest, who are these ppl that are reading Pfork and exploring older decades of music for the very first time? That seems like two mutually exclusive sets to me.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:50 AM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

these lists don't serve any purpose apart from harvesting clicks from old music nerds

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:51 AM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i pored over the old 70s and 80s lists as a teen

I have seen Wall E a bunch and the only songs I remember are from Hello Dolly.

'from a specifically UK/US viewpoint' is a limitation that I don't really know how these lists can be expected to get around unfortunately, as the token non-Western albums that do make these lists are always going to be ones that managed to cross over in some sort of way. it's certainly desirable to expand it as much as possible of course

I was too old for the older Pitchfork lists to influence me, but it impressed me when Low topped the '70s list -- and depressed me. My secret was out.

Peter Gabriel is a household name among millenials.

yeah he sings for TV on the Radio, right?

not to be ableist but the way that 95% of the reaction on ilm of all places is ‘x album placed but y didn’t??!’ is bad

the Omission Noticer has logged on

I absolutely poured through lists like this growing up, and learned about all sorts of music from them (as I probably will from this one as well, when I read the entries). However, I also think lists like these are inherently dishonest. On one hand, they present themselves as canon; why else would you rank the entries? (Almost typed wank the entries.) On the other, they are also meant to be provocative and inspire debate, which belies the idea of the canon. There's also a matter of the selections, which are probably not, as they say, natural selections, unless you believe every voter there is equally well versed in free jazz, pop, hip-hop, reggae, punk/indie and whatever other '80s genre (including those not represented, which is sort of a negative vote) and these are just the albums that popped up. My guess is by necessity the list has been massaged, because it has to be. Doesn't make it any less valuable! Again, even the omissions and weird inclusions are valuable, in a way.

for what it's worth, a) peter gabriel is all over youtube and so is virtually anyone else with a chance to hear these lists, but b) as one of the few people who actually did get into peter gabriel at age 16 or so -- via melt, actually -- even then I got the sense that it was considered embarrassing in retrospect, and if I had first heard him via "sledgehammer" or "solsbury hill" (neither of which I like, the former of which I think is actively embarrassing and the latter of which is wallpaper) I never would have

s/hear/make

Embarrassing? That's ... not generally a word I've ever heard to describe PG. Interesting.

That said, the list's omission of Weird Al is unforgivable.

have you ever read the lyrics to sledgehammer, they're... not good

Dare to Be Stupid is a solid album. xp

The viral Shining movie trailer def helped tarnish ‘Solisbury Hill’

xpost Most lyrics are not good! At least that one is intentionally goofy.

Agree Solisbury was hurt by Shining.

I thought the terror of Tom Cruise hugging Penelope Cruz did that to "Solsbury Hill."

Peter Gabriel was, ahem, my gateway to a thousand churches.

Including Kate Bush.

I don't know about "hurting" it but this is kind of what I meant by wallpaper -- it's been used for so much that it barely registers as a song that can be good anymore. kind of like "All Star" (to take a very different thing)

xp -- it was the opposite way for me, around the same time I got into Kate Bush I naturally heard "Don't Give Up" and "Games Without Frontiers." but then again, even those are tracks that are a bit too earnest and utterly irony-free in a way I can easily see not registering for others

They should learn to be a bit more earnest, those songs are awesome, fuck irony.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNjQxOTFmNmItMDk1Ni00NTk3LTk0N2MtNmU4OGE5NDIzYjJmXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTQxNzMzNDI@._V1_.jpg

^'80s

xp -- I actually do like both of these songs, but I don't necessarily expect anyone else to