pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

yeah but eliminator should be on the list

xps

these lists do have a use in being decent gateways for people exploring older decades of music for the very first time and i think despite the many blindspots this thread has pointed out the new p4k one is the best attempt at a genuinely broad and inclusive 80s canon. its interesting to compare it to the then-contemporary rolling stone list which is certainly more inclusive than the 2002 p4k list but seems very idiosyncratic these days - like i dont think young people even here in australia care about midnight oil anymore

What is the point of listicles if not having readers pick it apart and lauding/criticizing it?

people exploring older decades of music for the very first time

let's be honest, who are these ppl that are reading Pfork and exploring older decades of music for the very first time? That seems like two mutually exclusive sets to me.

these lists don't serve any purpose apart from harvesting clicks from old music nerds

xp lots of kids who only know anything from the strokes onward

or radiohead i guess

as a contributor it led me to discover a lot of new-to-me music which is p cool, i hope the bottom 100 serves the same purpose for a reader

I know that, but there's a difference between being criticized and always being criticized with no counterbalance

Several ILXors were saying it's a solid list upthread. I don't think the response has been overwhelmingly negative, it's just more interesting (and entertaining) to focus on the omissions.

I honestly love the list, as I said there's about 40 albums I'm now compelled to listen to that I haven't heard or even heard of. This is how I approach lists in general, but somehow I doubt that's how readers will approach and part of it is the numerical order, like saying that Control is better than Paul's Boutique seems more important than saying 'That Laurie Spiegel record might be interesting to you'. Like even approaching the list the way I said I did, like a gold mine of new content, I found myself trying to understand why SY's Sister didn't place.

New theory is that numerical lists are inherently rockist.

if there were a way to do these kind of lists without ranking i'd be very into it but... people click on these things to see the ranking

lots of kids who only know anything from the strokes onward

Kids still know about The Strokes?

maybe this is just my experience having been an extremely online music nerd teen a decade ago but digging through various p4k best of lists was certainly pretty formative for discovering music beyond Muse

let's be honest, who are these ppl that are reading Pfork and exploring older decades of music for the very first time? That seems like two mutually exclusive sets to me.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:50 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Pitchfork first lists of the 80s and the second they did for the 90s had a massive impact on me.

nobody knows about the Strokes

xp

no i had an identical experience ufo

the '90s and '80s pfork lists were my record buying guides for years xxp

if there were a way to do these kind of lists without ranking i'd be very into it

Mm. I mean, I've contributed to a couple of these lists in recent years and all, but there's a reason I stopped making my own ranked lists many years back.

OK then! news to me about these lists' impacts

xxp

I don't care about the ranking because my ballot is invariably so different from what gets published that my rankings get lost in the overall number sludge

as a contributor it led me to discover a lot of new-to-me music which is p cool, i hope the bottom 100 serves the same purpose for a reader

― princess of hell (BradNelson), Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:52 AM (fifty-four seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It reminded me to finally check out Nuno Canavarro beyond Mr. Wollogallu, which I love!

xps ime the post-punk revival is a big cut-off point w younger people for some reason, at least w rock (e.g. w hip-hop it's more like the early '10s onward)

Is Pitchfork going to post the individual ballots? I would be interested in seeing any ILX posters' ballots.

― jmm, Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:47 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

... and there it is

that said I'm probably an outlier here because I never really used collective lists as a method of finding new music -- I mostly just followed my own taste and comparisons to other artist. like, I didn't get into Kate Bush because of her placement on any list, but because someone compared her voice to Sarah Brightman once

Also its insane to say that Peter Gabriel's three 80s records had no impact on the hipster zeitgeist of the last 15 years

I was happy to see Melt, but come on, So is the correct answer.

maybe this is just my experience having been an extremely online music nerd teen a decade ago but digging through various p4k best of lists was certainly pretty formative for discovering music beyond Muse

― ufo, Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:54 AM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this was true for teenaged-me too fwiw

(the only real complaint I have about lists in general, as A Thing, is that generally people's criteria for adding something to this kind of list include that a specific record must have had some kind of influence on other musicians, the world, etc. which is understandable but does lead to a self-reinforcing aspect, because the way records get that influence is via lists like these, and so on.)

Also its insane to say that Peter Gabriel's three 80s records had no impact on the hipster zeitgeist of the last 15 years

Like I said, I haven't looked at this list, but I can guarantee there's no Chameleons, no Sound, no Feelies, etc. I name these bands because they're among my favorites, but if we're going to just go off retroactive "how influential was this?" kind of rankings, those bands need to be repped for. But they never will be. Not on lists like this.

xxp It's broad and inclusive from a specifically UK/US viewpoint though, right? I mean, I think I counted two albums in the top 50 that weren't US or UK and those were both from Ireland. There's nothing wrong with that - in fact (as noted upthread by various people) part of the fun of these things is understanding more about what the people making the list think is cool.

It's certainly broader than their previous 100 but lobbing in a tiny handful of African (or even Jamaican!) releases into the lower reaches of the list feels like thoughtless, token nods at breadth. Of course, it's actually a reflection that the majority of the contributors from a particular (cultural) place and time. I realise it's not exactly a news story that most Pitchfork contribs aren't terribly interested in (say) African music from the 80s. But I do think we should keep in mind that the list's "breadth" is pretty bounded.

Anyway these lists are fun for disagreeing with, that's what I use them for.

Gabriel not on Spotify until this summer also a factor.

Many xposts

Ah, I must have missed that Melt was on there

Feelies are at #107

And truly, if we're going down that route of "obscure, but really influential" albums, Shrimp Boat's Speckly should be in the top twenty. But again, that will never happen.

if anyone needs the list written out so they can quickly ctrl+f before posting http://www.brooklynvegan.com/pitchfork-lists-the-200-best-albums-of-the-1980s/

Gabriel not on Spotify until this summer also a factor.

How can you possibly not realize that it is a legit reason?

xxp bless

fuck spotify

for the record

If *professional music writers* are going to Milhouse.gif because they have to spend like $2 for a used CD to hear PETER GABRIEL then their opinion is worthless imo

I'm not judging, I'm acknowledging a reality.

I’m not saying everyone has to be some Steve Hoffman dork wiping the static from their VG+ Van Der Graff Generator vinyl, I’m saying, like jump the tiniest hurdle to hear one of the most acclaimed art-rockers there ever was

I'm not judging, I'm acknowledging a reality.

Keep that dream alive, Chris.

https://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/397/C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg

It could also mean that this Pitchfork group is unaware of Peter Gabriel or gives even less of a shit about Peter Gabriel than the previous group.

great thread

I mean I have my problems with P4k but I’d like to believe they haven’t replaced Mark Richardson with a gaggle of kids dependent on a single tech company for their understanding of music

Also Peter Gabriel did the Wall E song

this thread is cranky dad mania

did Weird Al make anyone's ballot?