ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

but I would have used a different phrase in that context...

It would only be correct if there were a hyphen between drinking and den, imo.

Oh, and breakfast and bar too.

sorting out how to properly hyphenate that lengthy series of modifiers is reason enough not to try it tbh

Or just drop the hyphens altogether. Xpost

In this case, cum is used as an unassimilated latin word rather than an English one (as in summa cum laude) and it means "with". I wonder whether the drinking den really is attached to the bar as a separate entity, or if author is just cheerfully misusing the word to mean "that might also be regarded as a".

that is a correct usage afaik

It is normal for a sentence to have a verb. Although, it is possible that where rushomancy called it a sentence and inserted a period it would have been more accurate to call it a phrase and inserted an ellipses.

ellipsis, ellipses is plural

you're right.

as for the phrase at issue, i would rewrite, because i don't think the unwritten linkage in the phrases "breakfast bar" and "drinking den" -- while it's certainly there, which is why they don't absolutely demand hyphenation -- us strong enough to override the written linkage of the hyphens round cum: the problem isn't that you can't decode it on reread, it's that you stumble (and chuckle if you have an evil mind) on first read

hyphenating everything puts all the linkages at the exact same level, which doesn't get rid of the hiccup
no hyphens is asking for dirty-mind trouble

"drinking den and/or breakfast bar" works i think (certainly it dodges the slight weirdness that Aimless is noting, that "cum" is arguably slightly misused here? and also the "he said cum teehee" thing)

us s/b is

stylish North Williams breakfast-and-drinking bar

doesn't really even need the hyphens

^true. use hyphens to eliminate ambiguity, which you're not really in danger of here.

i don't mean it as a technical grammar question. maybe i should have put it in "Words, usages, and phrases that annoy the shit out of you". the writer drops in a particularly unnecessary loanword in a context where one can't help but read it as the identical vernacular word.

Big style book changes at @nytimes: Since yesterday, we've dropped the courtesy titles – "Mr. Whatsisname", "Ms. So-and-So" – for stories about movies, pop music and TV 😱

— Matthew Anderson (@MattAndersonNYT) October 9, 2018

rip mr. loaf, mr. pop

hullo gaga, bostic, elllington

doctor sir warrior would be concerned if (a) not dead (b) ever once mentioned in the times anyway

https://i.imgur.com/ZZPl6u1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/c2yC8gD.jpg

guardian 1, bbc nil

seen on my Waitrose voucher
"this does not include infant formulae"

there are many types of formula I guess, but there are also many types of, say, milk and it would be weird to pluralise to 'milks'?

Yeah that's definitely wrong

That is not ungrammatical, strictly speaking, but is certainly a strange choice of expression. Also, when pluralizing Latin words that have been assimilated into daily English use, it is preferable to use the English form of plural, viz. formulas.

not sure “formula” needs pluralizing

it doesn't, and in terms of style, it oughtn't.

I quite agree with Aimles. I often want to stop people from pluralizing loanwords according to the pluralizing conventions of the source language. Especially when they are wrong. But people mistakenly think they're being scrupulously correct, which is sad. Pedants have misled them.

I dislike "syllabi," "octopi," "memoranda," and (perhaps especially) "matrices."

"octopi" is wrong anyway, even with the Greek origin it's "octopodes"
But with the voucher text, you wouldn't have a problem with "does not include fruits and vegetables" right?

I dislike "syllabi," "octopi," "memoranda," and (perhaps especially) "matrices."

Syllabi and memoranda are way more elegant than buses and dums. Octopuses also sounds terrible, imo octopi is the correct English plural and octopodes is an also-fun technically-correct plural. Matrices is elegant, but matrixes is simple and clear, I’d allow them both.

I also strongly endorse one Aimles, two Aimless.

But with the voucher text, you wouldn't have a problem with "does not include fruits and vegetables" right?

actually I'd go with "fruit" for that as well, fruit being a mass noun

I don't mind Latin plurals - it was only recently my workplace style guide stopped using 'data' as strictly plural, and not without some mutterings - but I don't expect to see it on a supermarket voucher so it kind of made me smile

it's good, english needs more inflective noun endings, it's a mongrel language and shd flaunt this

a pod of octopus is an octoplural, this is obvious and transcends rules or style

I also strongly endorse one Aimles, two Aimless.

As Aimless, I contain multitudes.

What the heck is a “breakfast bar” anyway?

The "breakfast bar" was named via analogy to the "salad bar" and consists of a variety of foods commonly eaten at breakfast, made available for one to serve to oneself.

Ok, I’d call it a breakfast buffet.

Bbbbbut how can a breakfast bar also be a drinking den? One is a collection of foods or a piece of equipment, the other is a type of room.

breakfast bar = a variety of syrups, preserves, multiple meats, a protective sneeze guard

a breakfast bar is a long shallow shelf section you sit at in a domestic kitchen, typically on a stool

at this rate, it will also qualify as a laxative, an epithet, and a cosmology

shitting the bar high there

http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/medias/sys_master/root/h99/h34/8837336432670.jpg

(Aimless ticks 'laxative' off his list.)

lol

It’s also, of course, the place you pregame before moving on to the breakfast club

unlike others itt i have a bit of a prejudice against nu classical or inflected endings. often seem to originate from a position of wanting to be more academically *correct* than the next person so

The ECB today announced that it has appointed temporary administrators at Banca Carige, the most current Italian banking conundrum in a long and growing list of Italian banking conundra.

immediate response:NO
next response: is conundrum even latin?
action: go to OED:
Etymology: Origin lost: in 1645 (sense 3) referred to as an Oxford term; possibly originating in some university joke, or as a parody of some Latin term of the schools, which would agree with its unfixed form in 17–18th cent. It is doubtful whether Nash's use (sense 1) is the original.

...


†1. Applied abusively to a person. (? Pedant, crotchet-monger, or ninny.) Obsolete.

1596 T. Nashe Haue with you to Saffron-Walden sig. V4v So will I..driue him [sc. Gabriel Harvey] to confesse himselfe a Conundrum, who now thinks he hath learning inough to proue the saluation of Lucifer.

...

†3. A pun or word-play depending on similarity of sound in words of different meaning. Obsolete.

1645 Kingdom's Weekly Post 16 Dec. 76 This is the man who would have his device alwayes in his sermons, which in Oxford they then called conundrums. For an instance..Now all House is turned into an Alehouse, and a pair of dice is made a Paradice, was it thus in the days of Noah? Ah no!


all in various ways amusing or ironic considering the context.

final response: actually if this is a joke or parody latin word it is *far more legit* to use “conundra” as in the spirit of the original thing

final final response: still absurd.

so many conundrae in those etymologia

FP

the original meaning is clearly describing the median ilx poster

we pompous panjandrums

crotchet-mongers all.

often seem to originate from a position of wanting to be more academically *correct* than the next person
please don’t describe my life without my permission

So will I..driue u to confesse urselfe a Conundrum, who now thinks he hath learning inough to proue the saluation of Lucifer.

oh leaue av

ap style guide . . . welcome to the resistance

SPLIT FORMS: In many cases, splitting the infinitive or compound forms of a verb is necessary to convey meaning and make a sentence easy to read. Such constructions are acceptable. For example: Those who lie are often found out. How has your health been? The budget was tentatively approved. Let readability and comprehension be your guide.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.