Police Line Do (Not) Cross: True Crime TV & Podcasts

New fave: Forensic Transmissions. 911 calls, confessions to the police, interrogations, trials - all presented straight up without interruption.

Binged Dr Death this week... holy crap, that was a ride and a half. Feels like an impostor story at first but it's WAY weirder.

I will say I'm not a huge fan of Wondery's tendency to overproduce their shows, with occasional dramatic re-enactments and such, it can veer into radio play territory which I don't always love.

But I can overlook it when the reporting and the story is that good. Warning, if you are grossed out by medical procedures this will give you the fuckin PHEAR jesus christ.

It deeply disturbed me! As if I don’t already completely mistrust the medical system in this country. Jesus.

I agree with you about the over production. Couldn’t get into the wonderland season or the Manson one at all.

The one thing that I loved about Dr Death was that the focus was this hideously grotesque awful doctor, but he was brought to justice by two AWESOME doctors who actually gave a shit. It was a great contrast.

But yeah, I've noped out of two Wondery shows within the first 5 minutes based on re-enactments alone.

i agree 100%. dr death is a great story but i'd like it better if it was not wondery. just listened to their aaron hernandez podcast, same.

:/

Just started listening to the Bear Brook podcast by NHPR - bodies found in 2 barrels in a New Hampshire forest 15 years apart, all within 300 feet of each other. Really good, solid reporting & not too many gimmicks. I’m only 2 eps in & i’m hooked.

have also subscribed to 2 more that sounded interesting
-Death in Ice Valley by BBC World Service about a Norwegian coldcase
-Breakdown by the Atlanta Constitution Journal about the murder trial of an Atlanta businessman

Bear Brook is a remarkable story.

Isn’t it just!? The way it intersects so many people’s lives, and time periods.

It makes me so sad that the orginal bodies haven’t been identified - that memorial service really got to me.

Also, of all the things, one I can’t stop thinking about is the whole idea of him killing one tiny daughter & keeping another alive. Like, he’s already clearly a fkn monster obv but that detail just fucks me up.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned yet or if it’s technically considered true crime, but I’ve been enjoying The Dream, about MLMs/pyramid schemes.

i have been meaning to check that out

Oooh we just started the dream last night - only got through one episode but I’m hooked already.

I'm liking The Dream a lot. Related: The Grift podcast http://thegriftpodcast.com

i am in love with the dream, just my favorite kind of stories

i have subscribed so i can live the dream w all yall

Loving the Dream so far. on ep 2 - man this whole town & her family sounds exactly like my hometown, every stay at home mum selling tupperware or throwing jewellery parties or cookware or clothing parties. my mum never did because she worked & thought it was “tacky”, but my sister quite a few girls i went to high school with were all up in that life.

When they were talking about the language used to convince ppl they can be sellers/recruiters too, it reminded of this Facebook msg I got back in 2015 from an old friend I hadn’t spoken with in years:

“Hi Jussie! How are you? You look like your enjoying life and your dog is just gorgeous!! I'm contacting you because I've recently started a new business which is pretty exciting. I thought of you because you're always so positive and motivated! It may or may not be for you personally but you may know others that are looking for a new opportunity or just want a bit of extra cash. If you would like to know more, let me know and I'll send you through a 6 minute video that explains a bit more about the business. IN the meantime, enjoy the warm weather - we're freezing our butts off here!!! Speak soon! Emily x“

Now, we used to waitress together for a couple of years and were quite close, so the idea that she would truly believe for even a minute that I’m “positive and motivated” (two adjectives I’ve never heard used to describe me) is hilarious but also ridiculous and immediately clued me in that this was an MLM (she was involved with that aloe product company).

Up and Vanished S2 is amazing

hippies are so awful it's like trying to solve a crime witnessed only by toddlers

Who the Hell is Hamish? podcast looks promising

New wondery podcast Over My Dead Body is pretty good.

Obv this way more than true crime but Lorena docuseries in Amazon Prime is a must-watch.

and in case you are wondering yes ~he~ is still a walking piece of human garbage & he will make you want to throw your tv out the window

but Lorena herself is v inspiring

and I cried through the whole 3rd episode

I am addicted to Yeardley Smith’s “Small Town Dicks”.

Quite possibly my platonic ideal of a true crime show.
Most of the details are relayed by the IRL small-town law enforcement who worked the crime, perhaps one of the two detectives Dan & Dave or their colleagues, interspersed with querying or clarifying questions from Yeardley or Zibby.

At times, it’s fuuuuucking brutal; like if Forensic Files was a podcast. These guys will spare no detail, & lay it all out in that very matter of fact way.

One thing I love is they occasionally talk to other involved people, like a victim’s mother, or the dispatcher . It’s usually really good & adds a lot of context to a case.

I dunno if it’s for everyone: but it’s DEF for me.

It’s SO rare that hosts are willing to take a backseat & let the stories be told to them. It’s impressive.

I unsubscribed from Sword & Scale years ago - had no idea the host was such a horrible person but am not surprised.
https://www.tampabay.com/arts-entertainment/want-to-quit-your-job-and-start-a-true-crime-podcast-obscuras-host-did-it-20190703/

yeah Sword & Scale turned me off years ago. Host is a grade-A douchebag.

Oh my bf has said a loootttt about Boudet, he is Not a Popular Man among the indie TC pod community.

"I Love You, Now Die" is extremely compelling

Darknet Diaries has hit a streak of terrific episodes this year, but this one on the financial trader who dug the bunkers underneath his house in Bethesda is outstanding. I had no idea this was the same guy who set fire to hard drives at hacker cons.
ttps://darknetdiaries.com/episode/39/

Crimetown season two is outstanding

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Noida_double_murder_case

watched pt one of the hbo show, its not great just read the wiki if youre interested

god help me I started listening to Wondery’s Mysterious Mr Epstein podcast - it is v good, I really like Lindsey Graham (not that one) as a host, his American Scandal podcast is great.

anyhoo it’s creepy and gross and I cant stop listening...and Real Crime Profile has a crossover series of eps about it. You havent lived til you hear Jim Clemente lose his ~shit~ over the deal Acosta gave Epstein in 2008. I have never heard him so angry (& he is an angry man at the best of times)

Also Kim Goldman (sister of Ron Goldman) has a podcast about the OJ trial & she talks to everyone & it is v good. First ep is v sad, she talks to a lot of Ron’s friends etc. Highly recommend.
c

This is interesting:

https://newrepublic.com/article/155801/favorite-murder-problem

I think it would be hard to listen to MFM and get the sense that your trust in the police (as opposed to a handful of hero cops) should be greater but there’s something increasingly troubling about the way they, and the broader network, looks at justice. The strain of ‘why aren’t people locked up forever / why aren’t people executed’? has been there for a while but it was legit shocking to hear Kilgariff recently talk about a prisoner being murdered by other prisoners as a great piece of moral community justice.

The trend mentioned briefly in the article towards positioning the listener as detective and crowdsourcing investigations is even worse imo. Paul Jensen’s podcast on their network strikes me as deeply irresponsible and dangerous.

In terms of fearmongering / copagands, TV procedurals are much worse than podcasts, though.

I just binged the Teacher's Pet series. They actually had to take the podcast down in Australia! That's nuts.

legit shocking to hear Kilgariff recently talk about a prisoner being murdered by other prisoners as a great piece of moral community justice.

oh no, poor necrophiliac serial killer got what was coming.

This has always bothered me about MFM. So much of true crime fandom is like this. It seems like the emphasis on identifying with and emphasizing with victims, in theory a good thing, is often shallow, self-indulgent, sanctimonious, and a way to avoid critical thinking or challenge. So are the usual lazy supposed explanations of why women love true crime.
Also, true crime podcasts classifying themselves as “comedy” and endlessly repeating that they’re not experts and don’t do much research seems like something of a cop out at this point.
Of course it’s nothing new or exclusive to podcasts.

Xp, yes, if you think the death penalty should be outsourced to other criminals’ sense of justice, it’s great.

i don’t disagree with the newrepublic piece in general. true crime fandom as a collective esp now that it’s so out in the open def has some tendencies that I don’t love & that make me uncomfortable.

but my thing is, singling out MFM is lame. there’s a TON good thoughtful true crime podcasts with large followings that dont delve into comedy at all. MFM has been honest about their approach & their failings from the beginning. calling them out for things they arent doing and never intended to do is really just a great way for an intelligent writer to drag an easy target.

All it does is make existing MFM fans more defensive and non MFM fans feel more smug.

MFM has such a big platform and large, vocal fan base. I don’t think disclaimers about their approach, limitations etc give them carte blanche or absolves them of all responsibility for what they say. It also seems to me that they and some of their fans are happy enough to claim to be feminist, socially aware, advocate for victims, take positions on issues etc -to the point of self-righteousness- but then deflect criticism by being “comedy”.
There’s social responsibility but it’s also about quality-after a while listening to ignorance, standard issue knee-jerk reactions and cliches etc just isn’t that enjoyable. (Of course it’s even worse with some other podcasts which in addition to all that don’t have any of the good qualities of MFM. )
I do think the article could have taken a broader approach. These problems have always existed in true crime, but true crime fandom has reached a really annoying point. That’s the nature fandom I guess but there’s certainly room for improvement.
(Also, obviously that was meant to say empathizing not emphasizing in my post above.)

the netflix series on henry lee lucas is fascinating (much of it is abt arrogance corruption and uselessness in the texas rangers, and the politics surrounding pushback against his absurd claims)

the ITV recreation of the investigation into the white house farm murders in 1985v in essex: it was bungled initially -- police believed sheila, the daughter with a history of mental illness, had shot her adoptive parents and her two boys (twins, 6) and then herself. suspicion -- as of ep 3 -- is turning towards the adoptive son

Bamber used to regularly phone in to talk radio in the mid 90s, pretending to be someone else, and gradually bring conversation around to the innocence of Jeremy Bamber, until they cottoned on and cut him off.

Casefile is back with a new 2 hour episode on Azaria Chambers :D

Am I the only one who watched the Atlanta Child Murders doc on HBO?

I have it on my list to watch but I haven’t been in the right frame of mind yet...

It's really well done, but yes, so sad

Particularly as someone who grew up just outside of Atlanta and never heard about the murders (until a few years ago). I read most of the James Baldwin playboy piece - this seemed to strike a familiar tone by the end.

I'm four episodes into Forgotten: The Women of Juárez, and it's very very good but hfs grimdark. (and I thought I knew the story going into it)

Anyone else watching the NXIVM doc “The Vow” on HBO?

First ep aired tonight, lot of inside footage & primary source material, bodes well so far

Episode 2 of “The Vow” went up last night. Watched at lunchtime. Crazy. introduces the really disturbing stuff, so all the almost-normal of the first ep gets put through the funhouse mirror & shit gets weird & bad.
the ending of ep 2 was O_o

it’s been impressive in its depth so far

in opposite news, Class Action Park hbo doc about action park theme park in NJ attempts to be both a morbid/fun nostalgia trip and a true crime doc and imo it really needed to either pick a lane or be much more sensitive.
Like, do I really have to say that you SHOULD NOT edit the voiceover of a comedian sort of wistfully saying that the 80’s were bad irl but when they’re drunk everyone who was there wil say that it was great —- over top of footage of the family of one of the park’s fatalities visiting his grave at the cemetery
bad. idea.

I can’t decide if I like “Welcome To Chippendales” on hulu or not

kumail & murray are really good as banerjee & de noia
but it also feels way too long?
& tonally confused, like full musical numbers & comedy & idk idk

who killed robert wone? on peacock was p good

casefile has a new episode up today on Sherri Papini

not ashamed to admit i mashed “download” immediately
i am what i am

Didn’t realize until earlier today that HBO was about to start a four part documentary adaptation of Elon Green’s _Last Call_, easily one of the best books in the field I’ve read in a while precisely because it was the stories of those who died that were centered first. Pleased to say that the first episode sticks to that well plus adding further context from good and appropriate voices. Recommended.

Yeah, I also thought the book was great and am looking forward to watching the series.

i’ll def check it out! thx

Last Call is now complete to watch, and again, I really strongly suggest watching it. It's very well done and very moving (and infuriating).

Excellent interview here:

https://www.vulture.com/article/last-call-anthony-caronna-elon-green-interview.html

And again, I highly recommend the book.

Monday night, HBO aired the first of three installments in its documentary series Murder in Boston: Roots, Rage & Reckoning. Directed by Jason Hehir (who made The Last Dance), it's about the October 1989 murder of Carol Stuart. The murder was originally reported by her husband, Charles, as a carjacking by a Black assailant in which they had both been shot. She died, as did the baby she was carrying. By January, Charles' brother confessed that he had assisted Charles in murdering his wife and that Charles' own injury was essentially a misdirect; the carjacker never existed. In the intervening months, a manhunt had resulted in the police stopping, searching and harassing large numbers of Black men in Boston, one of whom they even arrested. Charles Stuart identified him as the — as it turns out — fictional murderer, then took his own life shortly after his brother gave him up to the police.

There is an obvious way this series could have gone: exacting detail on the Stuarts, their families, how beautiful Carol was, how it all went wrong — on other words, on Charles' decision to kill her and his brother's decision to turn him in. Instead, it wisely focuses not on the murder itself, but on the police investigation, both its origins and the deep scars it left. The bulk of the first installment is spent on the history of segregation and racism in Boston, with particular focus on the ugly protests against busing as a way to desegregate public schools. It's a bit of a salutary bait-and-switch, seeming like another true-crime story, but really taking this case and using it as only one example of much broader problems. The result is far more satisfying and substantial.

i want to watch this! - dont have hbo anymore but will def grab it