2018 awards thread

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The NL top 4 in bWAR are all pitchers: Scherzer, deGrom, Nola and Kyle Freeland of the Rockies.

Markakis is 10th among position players.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 15 August 2018 01:24 (one year ago) link

j. ramirez with another huge game tonight

mookieproof, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 01:43 (one year ago) link

soto seems to be on a clear path to winning NL ROY, but I'm not sure about AL.

I thought so too last week, but it might end up being pretty close after another big night from Acuna. If you look at the two of them side-by-side, their batting lines are almost interchangeable, with one significant exception: 30 extra walks for Soto. That's huge, and if the vote were today, there'd be no reason not to vote for Soto. But Acuna's still got six weeks, and he's closing fast.

clemenza, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 02:56 (one year ago) link

I highly doubt Ohtani isn't getting AL RoY.

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 03:12 (one year ago) link

xpost

yeah, i guess it'll come down to who has the better stretch run. i do think, though, that soto's incredible selectivity (almost as many walks as strikeouts in a 19-year old season is crazy) suggests to me that he's better positioned to continue doing very well. acuna is a wonderful player in his own right but he has a much more typical swing and miss kind of approach, which i would guess makes him more susceptible to slumps.

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 03:21 (one year ago) link

it'll take a lot for a pitcher to win MVP this year even with the dearth of dominant candidates. it kinda looks like Baez vs Carpenter right now in terms of batters, with Scherzer mixing it up in there. obv Carpenter has the current momentum, Baez has cooled a bit and can't compete lately in terms of production. Scherzer would probably have to win 20 games to be the favorite, plus the Nationals would have to actually make the playoffs. Plus the other two would have to completely play themselves out of the running.

omar little, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 05:59 (one year ago) link

Trout is probably out thanks to his injuries, they've been minor but just enough to get Betts, Ramirez, and maybe even Martinez ahead of him at this point.

omar little, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 06:00 (one year ago) link

If the Red Sox get to 112+ wins I’m fairly certain Betts wins MVP.

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 06:34 (one year ago) link

I'd hate to see Sale lose the Cy Young to injury time. I think he's in the clear, but Kluber and Verlander are still hanging around--strong finishes by them and extended time for Sale could see him come up short.

clemenza, Sunday, 19 August 2018 12:39 (one year ago) link

Bauer and Snell, too...maybe Sale is insulated by all the others; either Sale gets your vote or one of the other guys gets it.

clemenza, Sunday, 19 August 2018 14:05 (one year ago) link

Bauer is done for the year and the Rays seem determined to keep Snell’s innings limited ROS. Don’t see either being a significant factor.

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 19 August 2018 14:20 (one year ago) link

Shows how closely I keep up--didn't realize Bauer was out.

clemenza, Sunday, 19 August 2018 14:21 (one year ago) link

you weren't the only one confused by bauer's status

https://deadspin.com/mlb-network-falls-for-joke-report-that-trevor-bauer-is-1828439637

mookieproof, Sunday, 19 August 2018 16:11 (one year ago) link

DeGrom continuing to make the NL Cy race a bit more interesting.

I think if Sale misses any significant time beyond this DL stint, maybe due to Boston wanting to play it safe with him, it’ll probably wind up being Verlander. Though if Kluber finishes like he did in his two previous Cy seasons, it’ll start to get competitive.

And if CK won a third I guess would start to bring up HOF chatter, even with his late start. There have been players who have won two Cys and are on the outside looking in w/r/t the HOF but everyone w/three or more has made it (or has PED issues.)

omar little, Sunday, 19 August 2018 19:09 (one year ago) link

If Kluber ends up winning #3, his HOF case--interesting already--will become really interesting. I used to think Mike Scott wasn't a bad precedent for Kluber, but Kluber's way past him now (and also has a two-year jump on Scott).

clemenza, Sunday, 19 August 2018 20:17 (one year ago) link

Klubot made me look up another 2x Cy winner in Bret Saberhagen, who wasn’t merely good but he was phenomenally great. And he was probably the third best pitcher in MLB during the peak era of Gooden and BoSox Clemens. He put up around 40 bWAR thru his age 27 season and then injuries took him off the HOF track. Without injuries he’s a first-ballot guy.

omar little, Sunday, 19 August 2018 20:39 (one year ago) link

Jacob deGrom is the fourth pitcher in National League history to strike out 200+ batters and post a sub-2.00 ERA through 25 starts. The others:

Sandy Koufax (1966)
Pedro Martinez (1997)
Clayton Kershaw (2014)

— Anthony DiComo (@AnthonyDiComo) August 21, 2018

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 19:37 (one year ago) link

i know ERA is not the most reliable stat, but that's good company

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 August 2018 19:38 (one year ago) link

DeGrom continuing to make the NL Cy race a bit more interesting.

I think if Sale misses any significant time beyond this DL stint, maybe due to Boston wanting to play it safe with him, it’ll probably wind up being Verlander. Though if Kluber finishes like he did in his two previous Cy seasons, it’ll start to get competitive.

And if CK won a third I guess would start to bring up HOF chatter, even with his late start. There have been players who have won two Cys and are on the outside looking in w/r/t the HOF but everyone w/three or more has made it (or has PED issues.)

― omar little, Sunday, August 19, 2018 3:09 PM (two days ago)

degrom gets my vote now I think. and to me sale is still the favorite for the AL.

k3vin k., Tuesday, 21 August 2018 19:58 (one year ago) link

HOF chatter started with kershaw a few years ago. he's a shoo-in

k3vin k., Tuesday, 21 August 2018 19:58 (one year ago) link

by CK he meant kluber

mookieproof, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 20:04 (one year ago) link

ah right

k3vin k., Tuesday, 21 August 2018 20:55 (one year ago) link

All three NL Cy contenders start today:

https://www.mlb.com/news/degrom-scherzer-nola-vie-for-cy-young/c-291491520

clemenza, Thursday, 23 August 2018 16:49 (one year ago) link

edge to nola

mookieproof, Thursday, 23 August 2018 19:32 (one year ago) link

Definitely helped himself today--sounded like a great game, with some unexpected wildness from Scherzer.

clemenza, Friday, 24 August 2018 01:36 (one year ago) link

bWAR thru yesterday:

Nola 8.9
Scherzer 8.0
deGrom 7.5

fWAR:

deGrom 6.9
Scherzer 6.0
Nola 5.4

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 24 August 2018 11:31 (one year ago) link

also Goldschmidt leading NL batters in bWAR

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 24 August 2018 11:45 (one year ago) link

that's a solid turnaround from his "slow start" (which was really only an extremely shitty May): his slash this year is .297/.402/.555, last season's was .297/.404./.563.

omar little, Friday, 24 August 2018 16:01 (one year ago) link

I like the idea (Posnanski's?) of combining both WARs. Then it gets really close: Nola and deGrom tied at 14.4, Scherzer at 14.0 (extra close if you then credit Scherzer with a slight "old-school" edge).

clemenza, Friday, 24 August 2018 20:51 (one year ago) link

The NL Cy is close enough that it comes down the last five or six starts. Predicting a winner now is pointless.

clemenza, Friday, 24 August 2018 20:52 (one year ago) link

But we’re going to do it anyways and I choose Scherzer!

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 25 August 2018 23:32 (eleven months ago) link

bWAR thru yesterday:

Nola 8.9
Scherzer 8.0
deGrom 7.5

fWAR:

deGrom 6.9
Scherzer 6.0
Nola 5.4

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, August 24, 2018 7:31 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

very bizarre

k3vin k., Sunday, 26 August 2018 03:52 (eleven months ago) link

Jeff: I know the basic difference of ERA vs FIP for Pitcher WAR between bbref and Fangraphs, but my question is why at the top of the leaderboards is bWAR higher than fWAR I.e. Nola 8.7 vs 5.4, Scherzer etc.

10:28

Jeff Sullivan: fWAR basically regresses every pitcher to a standard ball-in-play baseline. bWAR is unregressed in that way, making it easier to run a high number

J0rdan S., Sunday, 26 August 2018 06:04 (eleven months ago) link

The best thing I ever read on the difference was something Posnanski wrote comparing Pedro's 1999 and 2000 seasons. Fangraphs preferred one, Baseball Reference the other, and it basically came down to the difference between what should have happened and what did happen. And he argued both sides in a way that made perfect sense.

clemenza, Sunday, 26 August 2018 14:05 (eleven months ago) link

Kluber koughed up five runs vs KC yesterday. Getting very interesting there...i guess it depends on Sale’s return but Blake Snell(!) is looking like a competitor too.

omar little, Sunday, 26 August 2018 19:42 (eleven months ago) link

Repeat of last week: Scherzer-Nola, with deGrom against the Cubs. Very reminiscent of Arrieta, Greinke, and Kershaw in 2015.

clemenza, Wednesday, 29 August 2018 00:01 (eleven months ago) link

Nola winning this matchup thus far. DeGrom in a nice duel with Hamels.

omar little, Wednesday, 29 August 2018 00:55 (eleven months ago) link

it might be reminiscent of 3 years ago if i could remember what happened then

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 August 2018 02:34 (eleven months ago) link

speaking of past awards controversies, it'll be interesting to see what happens with the AL MVP if JD Martinez wins the triple crown (he's currently leading in BA (.337, betts at .336) and RBIs (110), and a close second to Khris Davis (38 to 39). but by fWAR he's 7th in the AL, far behind betts, ramirez, and trout (by bWAR he's 8th)

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 29 August 2018 02:39 (eleven months ago) link

Betts is clearly the best player on that team. i think there's been enough erosion in Dinosaurland to make Martinez doubtful.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 August 2018 02:49 (eleven months ago) link

deGrom 8 IP, 1 ER in a tie game

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 August 2018 02:54 (eleven months ago) link

he's allowed 11 ER in 11 no-decisions this season, for an ERA of 1.41 (along w/90 K in 70.1 IP, WHIP around 0.95...etc)

omar little, Wednesday, 29 August 2018 03:17 (eleven months ago) link

Has a Cy Young winner ever finished with a losing record?

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 29 August 2018 03:51 (eleven months ago) link

Closest I can come up with is King Felix @ 13-12 in 2010?

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 29 August 2018 03:54 (eleven months ago) link

Eric Gagné

Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 29 August 2018 03:55 (eleven months ago) link

Ooh, that's one to keep in the back pocket.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 29 August 2018 04:08 (eleven months ago) link

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/harrison-bader-rookie-of-the-year/

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 29 August 2018 15:51 (eleven months ago) link

and i'm not sure he's even the best rookie cardinal outfielder (tyler o'neill is the broiest bro of broberg, bro, but he's also a weightlifter bro)

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 29 August 2018 15:56 (eleven months ago) link

have Bader's golden locks made him a matinee idol?

Paul DeJong much foxier imho

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 August 2018 16:00 (eleven months ago) link

Tyler O'Neill plays the Mozart

https://www.instagram.com/p/bAsnWWza3v/

I think this is less surprising in a *Canadian* weightlifter.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 August 2018 16:06 (eleven months ago) link

Now is a good time to reread some of those “did the Brewers give up too much for Yelich?” articles

frogbs, Friday, 16 November 2018 00:33 (nine months ago) link

most valuable voter: the guy who had deGrom 1st tonight

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 November 2018 01:34 (nine months ago) link

He should have been a close 2nd!

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 16 November 2018 05:18 (nine months ago) link

8 voters left him off their ballot entirely, which shows that the electorate doesn't even agree on what this motherfucking award is.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 November 2018 12:28 (nine months ago) link

I wasn't quite as easygoing as #MikeTrout about it the year (1993) I came in #2 for MVP. But I wasn't in the hunt as often as him. Besides, it's not like he brought it on himself by teaching @MookieBetts about special vitamins the way I did with Barry Bonds (NL MVP in 1993).

— Lenny Dykstra (@LennyDykstra) November 16, 2018

omar little, Friday, 16 November 2018 17:58 (nine months ago) link

actual footage of lenny dykstra

https://i.imgur.com/krh0Zh5.jpg

Karl Malone, Friday, 16 November 2018 18:11 (nine months ago) link

Actually actual footage of Lenny 1 month ago:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/former-all-star-outfielder-lenny-dykstra-indicted-on-drug-threat-charges/

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 16 November 2018 18:27 (nine months ago) link

Dykstra is facing three third-degree charges: possession of cocaine, possession of methamphetamine and making terroristic threats. Each stems from the May incident Dykstra had with an Uber driver, during which he allegedly held a gun to the driver's head.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 16 November 2018 18:28 (nine months ago) link

If you get easily upset by stuff like this, do not read--you will have a coronary.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/15/one-writer-who-voted-max-scherzer-ahead-jacob-degrom-cy-young-explains-his-ballot/?utm_term=.014f3201a619

clemenza, Friday, 16 November 2018 19:47 (nine months ago) link

*has coronary*

I hear you've been having trouble with pigs and ponies. (WmC), Friday, 16 November 2018 20:03 (nine months ago) link

that's silly, but not as silly as people who are upset about degrom's win not being unanimous. scherzer had a pretty good season, and it's not like this guy had degrom fifth

mookieproof, Friday, 16 November 2018 20:11 (nine months ago) link

When I opened the piece up, I honestly thought it would be somebody talking about FIP or Win Probability Added or wOBA or some small but meaningful-to-him sabermetric edge the writer had discerned in Scherzer's line. His rationale was the last thing I expected (as recently as two or three years ago, it would have been the first thing I expected, which I think is indicative of how fast things are changing).

If you step back and think about how good a season Scherzer had, I think that's a fair statement.

clemenza, Friday, 16 November 2018 20:13 (nine months ago) link

And Randy Jones! As a '70s guy, that had me smiling mightily. (Did he think to check in with Clay Kirby?)

clemenza, Friday, 16 November 2018 20:20 (nine months ago) link

Who, come to think of it, once lost 20, and in '71/'72 went 27-27 with a ERA under 3.00. Clay would have counselled that he vote for deGrom.

clemenza, Friday, 16 November 2018 20:23 (nine months ago) link

Maffei, 70, said

k3vin k., Friday, 16 November 2018 21:53 (nine months ago) link

Scherzer and Nola were somewhat closer to deGrom than the tally indicates. Worrying about whether an award vote is unanimous... idgi. That said, if pitchers are supposed to be eligible for the MVP, the 8 guys who blanked deGrom clearly don't believe it.

And here's Jeff Sullivan who cast his AL vote for Verlander:

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/i-voted-for-justin-verlander/

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 November 2018 22:24 (nine months ago) link

I always like looking at updated award-shares on Baseball Reference. Scherzer has moved into 8th-place on the Cy list; Verlander into 11th; and Kluber into 15th. (Kershaw was shut out for the first time since 2010.) Trout is 11th on the MVP list--5.06 shares, which at least is a lot more representative than his two awards.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/mvp_cya.shtml

James had a tweet that 97 MVPs are in the HOF, 59 are not, 63%. But I assume the not-in total includes all active winners, some of whom will move into the other column. Of the last 23 winners starting in 2005--Pujols' first MVP; all winners before that are retired--I'd estimate that 12-15 will end up in the HOF, making the ratio more like 110-46, or 70%.

clemenza, Saturday, 17 November 2018 01:32 (nine months ago) link

I liked the Jeff Sullivan piece above--he's basically trying to figure out the same thing I was, how Snell gave up more baserunners than Verlander but fewer runs. He's doing it at a microscopic level--I can't do that--whereas I landed on HR and GIDP (I don't think he mentions either). And he's trying to figure out "To what extent was Snell responsible for his results?" He seems to conclude that there's a lot of luck and good defense involved, while also conceding that "I know pitchers sometimes try to pitch to their ballparks or defenses or whatnot."

I look at Snell's 15-3 advantage in GIDP (in fewer innings) and think, well, give four of the extra double-plays to his defense, four of them to luck/shifting, and the other four to Snell (pitchers do try to induce ground balls, right?). Pure guesswork, I know, but Sullivan admits that there's conjecture in what he does, too: "It’s very possible, if not probable, that’s not giving Snell enough credit. Maybe he was in some way able to pitch to his defenders."

I don't think there's a right answer. His evidence is interesting, but it's so granular, I think you're starting to drift away from the reality of all those extra runs. I liked this reader comment: "Some day, people will be using nothing but spin rate and pitch location to vote for Cy Young. Shortly thereafter, the award will be retired."

clemenza, Saturday, 17 November 2018 13:30 (nine months ago) link

Reader commenter OTM.

Some people tried to make a case for Rizzo based on WPA during the year that Harper won MVP. Nobody claimed that Rizzo had some magical clutch hitting ability, or that it was a repeatable skill, but the bottom line is that those hits did help his team win games, which obviously counts for something. If they'd been closer in WAR it might have made an impact on the voting, like with Snell and Verlander.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 17 November 2018 17:37 (nine months ago) link

khris davis beats out j.d. martinez for the edgar martinez designated hitter of the year award

which is pretty absurd

mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 19:10 (nine months ago) link

Huh? I'm pretty easy-going when it comes to award voting--I can at least almost always see the outline of the argument as to why some guy did or didn't win, even if I don't agree. But that makes zero sense. You're talking about .247/.326/.549 vs. .330/.402/.629., 2.9 WAR vs. 6.4. Not even close, no matter what metrics you use.

clemenza, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 19:40 (nine months ago) link

the edgar martinez award committee is corrupt

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 19:45 (nine months ago) link

Martinez appeared in 32 games as a RF, another 25 games in LF, 93 as DH.
Davis appeared in 11 games as a LF, 139 as DH.

i guess they just saw Davis as more of a pure DH? beats me

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 19:48 (nine months ago) link

apparently voters are instructed to take only stats as a DH into account; martinez hit .297/.373/.597 with 27 HR and 79 RBI in 93 games/400 PA as a DH while davis did essentially everything as a DH

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 19:48 (nine months ago) link

i mean...i'd still take that production over davis but ok

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 19:51 (nine months ago) link

David Price and Jonny Venters have been named winners of the 2018 American League and National League Comeback Player of the Year Awards.

— Mark Feinsand (@Feinsand) November 20, 2018

mookieproof, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 20:35 (nine months ago) link

Wow, I didn't know Venters' story.

timellison, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 21:15 (nine months ago) link

Khris Davis's magic .247 hat trick carried the day

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 November 2018 22:48 (nine months ago) link

the edgar martinez award committee is corrupt

Is this actually comprised of former DHs? What did Jeff Burroughs know, and when did he know it?

clemenza, Wednesday, 21 November 2018 03:26 (nine months ago) link


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