HOLGER CZUKAY

Happily that bit of UK culture wasn't passed on to me, though now that I've imagined Czukay hosting a children's show my mental image of his face is blending with Captain Kangaroo's

"cool in the pool" is pretty representative of a chunk of the set, so hopefully that nightmare was more weird than horrified

I'm tempted to pick this up, I sampled it on Spotify and found much to love (but not all of it, his tastes and creative spirit was incredibly broad).

I don't think it's *everything* he did in his solo career, it's a large anthology.

No, it stops with "Radio Wave Surfer" - which I think was his last album for Virgin?

also I think it only samples most of the albums (all of Movies is on there though)

there's a lot of amazing music on that box. for me also wildly frustrating. it's the first 7 albums, each nearly complete, minus one or two tracks. czukay released remixed versions of the albums over the last ten years which are profoundly different (sometimes interesting but never improvements - a lot of the tight splices and edits are now gone, and there's more reverb); none of the people who reviewed this box knew the material well enough to mention which versions were included here and the website doesn't mention, but I'm guessing it's the later versions.

the groenland reissues of 'peak of normal' and 'osten ist rot / rome' also left off a bunch of the best tracks, and some of them, but not all of them, are back on this box, and are now the only places you can get them. it is sloppy.

that being said - I love all this music so much, I would still consider buying this if I found a (very) cheap copy so I could pick the box up and hug it while listening to the original versions

The only one I really couldn’t cope with back in the day was radio wave surfer. I wonder how I’d react to it now.

When you get it let us know what the video vinyl item is. For the life of my I cannot find out from the internet what that is.

It's one of these I think. It's a record with black and white video encoded in audio. It's been around since 1999 and there were initially 21 releases in the format before it was 'revived' recently. It uses a special decoder thing.

http://www.vinylvideo.com/
http://vinylvideo.supersense.com/

Movies is a really strange record. The two short pieces go down easy – witty, melodic, brilliantly edited, it’s hard not to flash a smile at these. But holy shit, the two long pieces are bizarre as shit.

“Oh Lord Give Us More Money” is an epic remix of “Hunters and Collectors” from 1975’s Landed (a fact pointed out to me by Milton on some old Krautrock thread), with wandery varispeed guitar noodlings competing for space against Solina string synth noodlings. His almost amelodic vocal entrance on this (“Some arguments in the past have made gold/Out of STONES!!!”) is equally odd – later in the song Czukay even repeats the line and follows it by asking, “What the devil does that mean?” It’s even weirder when you realize how utterly different it is than Karoli’s singsongy lead on the original track. The editing is almost every four bars – building, slowing, and building again with periodic jump cuts to heroic resolutions or nothing other than Liebezeit’s hihat pedal. And then it ends almost arbitrarily after thirteen-and-a-half minutes The effect overall is as disorienting—and often as frustrating—as anything Teo Macero did with Miles in the 70s.

“Hollywood Symphony” starts off like it’s going to be an entry into the “Ethnological Forgery Series” before Czukay himself swoops in to croon about “endless nightmares” – again with no sense of actual melody or contour. Here again the guitar dukes it out with the string synth for long stretches at a time. But where at least “Oh Lord Give Us More Money” had its descending piano chords to pin it down, “Hollywood Symphony” has even fewer guardrails – supposedly edited for over two years, the piece feels through-composed, at one point transitioning from a bass rumble figure reminiscent of the introduction to “You’re So Vain” to a sublimely hyperactive synth, guitar and short wave radio jam before returning to the demi-melody (albeit vocaless) with which the piece began. What is Czukay trying to accomplish with this piece? I honestly have no idea.

the single edit of "halleluwah" is a good one. anybody heard the 2 minute single edit of "oh lord give us more money"?

"Some alchemists in the past have made gold/Out of STONES"

great post btw

(xp) Was about to say...

I love how "Oh Lord" fades out fades in again... about four times. I always feel like the two long tracks were partly about Czukay showing the rest of Can just how complex and musical he could get without them.

Alchemists? Ok my bad.

Barring maybe Cannaxis, Full Circle is probably my favorite non-Can Czukay release when all is said and done. The trio has incredible synergy and equal billing with Liebezeit keeps Wobble and Czukay’s most indulgent qualities in check.

On the full release (this was initially an EP), “How Much Are They?” is probably the closest thing the trio got to doing something club ready. The dubbed out piano parts are delightful. I do wonder what Jaki does on this however, given prominence of the drum box.

“Where’s the Money?” has a rhythm that could’ve been pulled directly off Metal Box, with Wobble holding down a great 4/4 riff but with some overdubbed echoey African percussion from Liebezeit. Czukay here spends most of his time adding dub accents on rhythm guitar and modulating the dynamics of things with timely edits and atmospheric short wave. But here he lets Wobble’s vocal and bass set the pace to great effect.

Then comes the title track and “Mystery” (neither of which were on the original EP), which were part of the “Radio Picture Series.” The latter features creeping footsteps and a drone and an insistent dub bass.

The title track is a brilliant high life/dub/radiophonic amalgam. Once upon a time I didn’t particularly rate this but as time passes, it feels increasingly like the strongest track here – with some of Czukay’s lithest guitar work, short wave/dictaphone punctuations and French horn blasts. The Jaki/Wobble groove rivals any Can track for its sheer relentlessness but showcases a level of interplay between Liebezeit and Czukay’s interjections that didn’t exist in that band. Credit here probably goes to Wobble who allows them that freedom by locking things down so completely. Even tho it goes on for 13 minutes and doesn’t really build to anything approaching a traditional crescendo, the track somehow never outstays its welcome.

Really, every track is great but “Trench Warfare” is probably the most unhinged piece here and the climax of the full release. Over a deceptively complex Liebezeit rhythm of rimshots, finger cymbals and various cowbells, Czukay again tears into his French horn, but instead of West African guitar wails like Pete Cosey thru a harmonizer during a traffic jam. The garish stereo separations worthy of There’s a Riot Goin’ On and jump cut splices of Jimmy Smith organ and dictaphone, combined with Wobble singing thru a harmonizer as well (it’s possibly feeding the whole mix), give things a particularly psychedelic touch.

“Twilight World” rounds things out with a spacey swinging groove, Wobble croon and chicken scratch organ. It’s probably the most conventional thing here and there’s very little editing from Czukay but it’s a perfect comedown from the insanity that just preceded it.

I love this record unconditionally.

it's totally peak era. what felt like a spontaneous casual jam side-release when I first heard it has become a high water mark

When did the full length version come out? I don’t have it.

1982 according to Discogs. The single came out in 1981.

There's quite a bit about the making of that record in Wobble's autobio IIRC. Just reished as a standalone CD by Groenland as well by the looks of it.

I always loved the ep, didn't know about the LP until about a month ago. Looking forward to its arrival

super enjoying these informative posts and this box set, thank you holger & ilm <3

posting for later

https://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Rockpalast/Rockpalast-From-The-Archives-Holger-Czu/WDR-Fernsehen/Video?bcastId=8051040&documentId=46816188

Ta.

Awesome.

Danke!

Watched some of this last night. Two things:

1) I wish I spoke German or this had subtitles – Holger doing an interview while splicing tape of a Papal service would be amazing to understand!

2) Is that one of the shows they used for Radio Wave Surfer?

3) Michael Karoli. I had no idea that the wispy guitarist from Can was such a damned handsome man!

1) Ditto.

2) Looks like it.

3) But of course!

haha! Michael Karoli was definitely the prettiest Can man

3) Michael Karoli. I had no idea that the wispy guitarist from Can was such a damned handsome man!

― Naive Teen Idol

dude that's his sister on the cover of roxy music's "country life"

True. But forgive me, I said two things and that was a third.

There's quite a bit about the making of that record in Wobble's autobio IIRC.

Karoli's girlfriend was the other woman on the cover of Country Life.

It's a bit daunting, but I got one, box dented and some LP sleeves a little creased, but apart from that all sound, for £40

Tempting to splurge, but probably best to just keep to one LP a week or some such.

https://www1.wdr.de/mediathek/video/sendungen/rockpalast/video-holger-czukay---der-privatsinfoniker-100.html

Available until 2099

Wish he'd talked a little more about his time in Berlin. When he was a student, Czukay lived in Steinstücken, a tiny exclave of West Berlin that was surrounded on all sides by East Germany. He had to show his pass every day at the GDR checkpoint in order to leave Steinstücken and travel along the transit route to get to West Berlin.

"The East German policemen weren't at all like you'd expect. In Steinstücken there was an elite unit of 300 men. A hundred of them were assholes. a hundred were in-between and a hundred were really OK. They marched up and down outside my window while I practised on my bass and told me what I was doing well and not well. [...] Three of the East German soldiers, I brought them with all of their weapons to the West Berlin check-point. The police there brought out some bottles of beer and we all drank. This was during this hot time (in the Cold War). Somehow I survived."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bqtY2PtEyU

THis may have appeared before and also may have been seen from teh same link I got from David Stubbs today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klPlEJoHF1M
but pretty surreal. Surprised to see him on what appears to be a pretty mainstream show. & do wonder what response the competition question got.

I posted in some other thread, but it was a while ago now.

all the best avant-gardists did a solid stint on blankety blank or local equivalent: john cage with his mushroom lore, robert fripp and toyah, this whatever it is

"i thought i would get a kiss from you".

Didn't Frank Zappa appear on one of these? 🤔

Not with Anthea Turner though.

Thanks to this thread, I finally listened to Movie.

Oh I miss him.

Also, another good reflection from Sylvian on Holger:

🐦[Here’s the full transcript of my interview with ⁦@davidsylvian58🕸⁩ from the current issue of ⁦@uncutmagazine🕸⁩... https://t.co/M531wNQ4bU🕸
— Michael Bonner (@MichaelBonner) July 13, 2018🕸]🐦

Holger was evidently impressed with you; but what impressed you about him?
With Movies he’d created a genre defying classic album that continues to impress even when listened to today. It’s an incredibly innovative piece of work. We spent a good deal of time together in the ‘80s, prior to my moving to the States. He was an incredible raconteur with an endearing sense of humour. It’s virtually impossible to think of Holger without a smile on his face. In his earlier incarnation as a member of ‪the band Can, he tends to appear quite intense in group photographs, but he went through a radical change on leaving ‪the band. He claimed he suffered a minor nervous breakdown and the story of his recovery is a rather remarkable one in which it’s impossible to discriminate between fact and fiction, reality and altered states. When he emerged from this experience he claimed to have discovered his sense of humour, which is very much to the fore in albums such as ‘Movies’. One of the very few musicians who could incorporate humour into the fabric of an album without diminishing the powerfully groundbreaking quality of the work (Hassell claimed humour in music was comparable to the same in sex, which may possibly say more about Jon than anything else, but you can see what he was getting at). In his role as composer, producer, musician, and engineer he was a genuine innovator. To work with him, or to witness him at work, was to see an entirely different methodology utilized than the kind you’d likely find as standard in professional recording facilities of the time. Now that a good deal of recording takes place outside of such institutions it’s possible there’s more room for personal innovation than there once appeared. But judging by the limitations of the technology touted by the recording industry, harping on about authentic recreations of technology of the past, I can’t be certain. Holger’s was a uniquely inventive mindset, beyond replication.

thanks for sharing that video - both Holger and Anthea seem personable enough to make that interview fun instead of awkward like it ought to be. I never noticed how tall and imposing he was, but he seems so friendly. he reminds me of a few professors I had. Sylvian's story makes sense...Can had a sense of humor but were also serious and intense. by the time they were clearly goofing around Holger was out of the band.

Thanks for that interview excerpt!

This album is amazing, btw - gorgeous and silly and playful.

On The Way To The Peak of Normal is really slinky if you haven't heard it. Very recommended

so that led me down a rabbit hole of Holger interviews, including one where he's talking about electronic music. he says Can's music was out of fashion for a while because it wasn't "hi-fi", which to me is weird because the records sound amazing. but I suppose that's maybe not what he's talking about.

like Monster Movie *should* sound grungy but it's really crisp somehow. it was 1969 and they were broke, I dunno how they did it. Ege Bamyasi and Future Days sound like something that could have been recorded today.

I assume he means that, prior to 1975, they recorded everything on 4-track.