Like like the the the POLL: SILVER JEWS = American Water

Huh — I always thought it was, “

...“We hitchhike away from a desolate Houston”

FTR, I think my favorite song on the album is “Like Like The The The Death” — both musically and lyrically (notwithstanding the bum line, “Nobody cares about a dead hooker”)

but yeah, those words will always give me goosebumps. s&j was my intro to silver jews

Here comes the coda

Not much water coming over the hill
Not much, not much, not much
Not much water coming over the hill
Not much, not much, not much

Is there a coda thread? I know Ned has talked eloquently and correctly about New Order's Regret, and that's the greatest thing. But SM's work here is immense. Love this album. Don't think I've seen this thread until today.

The bird of Virginia
Are flying within ya
And like background singers
They all come in threes
And like background singers
They all come in threes

I would've been a "We Are Real" voter because it would fit better on his slightly better album Natural Bridge

from the op:

During a brief pause in conversation, the delicate sound of ringing guitar from a song called "Self-Ignition" escaped through a studio door. Berman described the song as a future B-side, explaining that the band had run through the track too quickly for it to make the final cut for the album. "We've never sounded tight like this," Berman said. "There's hard-rocking songs where we've never had that level of intensity before. They're really charged songs."

did this ever become a song?

Yeah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W90V4D1P9VY

(It was indeed a B-side, to “Send In The Clouds”)

oh nice, thanks! i know absolutely zero silver jews b-sides

22 years old today. What a beast of a record.

I've got two tickets to a midnight execution
We'll hitchhike our way from Odessa to Houston
And when they turn on the chair
Something's added to the air
When they turn on the chair
Something's added to the air forever

So many strange and fantastic moments on this record. RIP.

My life at home everyday
Drinking coke in a kitchen
with a dog that doesn’t know it’s name

One of my dumbest opinions is that i don’t really fully fuck with this album (despite the openers being 2 of my lifetime favs) bc there’s too much steve malkmis on it and when I put silver jews on its cus I’m in the mood to hear DB

Here's something that's always mystified me: in Buckingham Rabbit, the last line of every stanza is repeated two times, except for "I can track a single bee to the hive." Why?

I want to make a cocktail called a shattered dog on the rocks

Haha same. For maximum authenticity you would need to blow your rent money on the whiskey you use to make the drink

Here's something that's always mystified me: in Buckingham Rabbit, the last line of every stanza is repeated two times, except for "I can track a single bee to the hive." Why?

― J. Sam, Tuesday, November 3, 2020 10:37 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

he's tracking a single bee, not two bees

xps I love the Malk presence on this record; to continue with the cocktail theme, he's like the soda to Berman's straight whiskey, adds lightness/sweetness/delicacy/bubbliness.

I had p much the exact experience as flopson with this record for a long time too, but ive come to appreciate the malkmus presence over the years

I thought I was alone in not digging Malkmus much here! The high points *are* rather high but I nowadays get more excited about the prospect of listening to pretty much any other long-player as a whole album, with the exception of perhaps Tanglewood Numbers.

I adore everything Berman did but American Water yeah

hey there riders on the storm HOLD THE WORLD TO ITS WORD

he's tracking a single bee, not two bees

― glengarry gary beers (voodoo chili), Tuesday, November 3, 2020 12:39 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

damn.

the malkmus songs on american water are v good, but they wouldn’t be the best songs on any pavement album and they’re also like, kinda funky? in a way that i just don’t think jibes with dave’s songs

They are funky - and the gtr work at the end of “Blue Arrangements” is sort of the heart of the album for me. This should not be taken as a slight at Berman, but Malk’s presence is core to the SJs sound for me.

I like this one even more than the last two Pavement records--feel like the SJ's w/SM are just a "different" kind of band. I think there are less stinkers for sure on this one. Like on Tanglewood, everything on Side 2 but How Can I love you but you won't lie die down doesn't really work for me. Whereas Side 2 of American Water is all hits. Same with Lookout Mountain, there's def. a drop off on side two.

I dunno I think they brought out the best of each other when they worked together, and I love their harmonizing.

they hit fagen/becker peaks

tbh i think what threw me off about it for so long might just have been SMs vocals, the incongruity of hearing another voice from another well-known band popping up. Silver Jews are one of those bands that feel like an island unto themselves, off in their own sui generis soundworld. Periodically hearing the voice from "Range Life" just felt so strange and spellbreaking

But Malkmus’s voice (and guitar) is all over the early records...

yeah maybe this is a thing where if your first SJ was Starlite Walker, or the early stuff, that's one way. but if your first intro was the Natural Bridge, or anything *after* American Water, you might vibe on the band different. he was there at the start. . .

Yeah theres something to that. I cant remember what my first one was, but I know I'd heard pavement first so that was definitely a thing in my head when absorbing SJ for the first time. SMs guitar always made perfect sense, but hearing a voice other than DBs on threw me off for a long time. Even the songs where Carrie sings felt weird to me the first times i heard them, the cognitive dissonance of being in David Berman's head and suddenly then hearing someone other than him.

Keep in mind that Malkmus & Nastanovich were pissed & hurt when Berman went off and made a record without them. They felt like he had “broke up the band.” That’s how much of a unit they were (at least to those guys).

(You may find that unfair, as they had another successful band, but regardless...)

def something to that.

i love DCB more than just about anything and Silver Jews was his thing, but for me SM's presence on Starlite Walker and American Water is, as morrisp says, core to the sound.

and i hopped on board w/ Starlite Walker. i can see how if you did so later, SM might feel intrusive on the older stuff.

yeah i know the history, and i love all of american water now, but i dunno i also think that regardless of SMs key importance to the DNA of that sound, at the end of the day the platonic ideal of SJ was just not a duet/bg vox kind of band, in my mind. Its like hearing Eno sing on Remain in Light, for me - it works in the context of how the band and there sound are operating, but theres also always a part of my brain that goes "oh huh - that guys here too, i guess". Its interesting - especially with songwriter type stuff theres definitely something about hearing multiple voices on a song that changes the alchemy of it for a listener (beyond just "this story is being told by two people" or "this part carries special emphasis because someone is singing along with the lead"). I'll have to think about it.

Just to counter some of the anachronistic revisionism ITT, from a 1994 interview with DCB & BN:

BN: Pavement is mainly Steve’s songwriting. It’s the principal reason for the band existing. Whereas Silver Jews there’s a totally different guy serving the same role. It’s a totally different thing, and Steven is really good friends with David and he’s a really good guitar player. He really enjoys David’s writing, and having the freedom to just jam on guitar and his responsibilities in Silver Jews are absolutely minimal. It’s totally great for him to relax. For me, the best two times I’ve ever been on stage have been the two nights we played the Drag City Invitational. There was an intense pressure, and I felt that I was an extremely important part of the band. In Pavement, my role has always been soley live, and pretty much to add spirit and enthusiasm; musically, it’s no where near as important as when I’m in the Silver Jews. I have far greater input in Silver Jews. With the new album, we had 12 sheets of paper with lyrics on them and we basically wrote songs around those words.

DCB: Exactly. Yeah, now, for the last couple years it’s been mostly songs that either I’ve written beforehand or Steve and I sat down for a little bit and worked something out more clearly. Because none of that stuff we recorded in the house, which came out on records, was… we were just recording for our own pleasure, you know. We all worked really hard jobs and it was really tense living where we did, and it was fun for us at night to just howl. Afterwards, it became songwriting.

CB: So how did Pavement work out of all this? Were the Silver Jews playing together first?

DCB: Well, we played a lot together in college, but we didn’t call ourselves the Silver Jews. Steve went home and brought up Pavement, just after he graduated from college.

CB: So kind of?

DCB: Well, in a way, technically, on a time-line, yes, first. But, Pavement’s always been what Steve does and that’s him. Pavement is Steve. Silver Jews as at least until recently, three friends getting together and making music.

CB: So you sort of play the role that Steve does in Pavement in the Silver Jews, you’re more the-

DCB: Well, on this record especially. I wrote all the songs. Steve is good to have around because he’s a complete song stylist and I can bring even a really lame song out and he can polish anything up with what he does. He can make anything into gold. Now, he likes to take more of a backseat, and it’s good for me because I’ve gotten to the point where I have a vision of what I want things to be like whereas before I didn’t. I knew what I wanted this record to be like. I knew exactly what I wanted…

https://tomsugden.github.io/cordsuit//articles/cool-beans-interview.html

i'm pretty sure i heard American Water before i spent much time (if any) with Pavement.

Silver Jews-style Malkmus is still my favorite

guys i get sm's role in the history of silver jews, v familiar with the stories of these bands. it took me a while to get into the presence of vox by someone other than the primary songwriter /= revisionist history

This to me is the <3 of American Water

Steve is good to have around because he’s a complete song stylist and I can bring even a really lame song out and he can polish anything up with what he does. He can make anything into gold.

who’s BN?

bob nastanovich, i think

Fwiw it’s strictly a voice thing for me; i love Steve’s guitar all over American water. the solo on random rules is perfect. even like the goofy wah pedal on People

that quotes interesting.. it’s so hard for me to imagine Dave writing federal dust tho. the whole vocal melody and rhythm of it is so Steve. Blue arrangements too

Malkmus has writing credits on both of those tracks fwiw.

(as well as Gate Pratt on "Honk")

For me it's probably just that I grew tired of Malkmus, fairly or not. I started with S&E and Starlite Walker as a schoolkid but have entered a long refractory period during which I don't really want to hear him, especially late Pavement. Maybe American Water gives off occasional Brighten the Corners vibes or something. It doesn't necessarily make much sense as I don't think I'm ever not in the mood for Starlite Walker.

American Water is miles better than Brighten The Corners.

Even Malkmus thought so!