NPR's 150 Albums Made by Women

Fine, but it's still bad and clumsy writing, based on phony premises, starting (in the excerpt you quoted) with the fact that Ivy Queen is herself light-skinned. We could also talk about the fact that Gloria Estefan had multiple Top 40 English-language hits, and she and her husband Emilio managed Shakira's move into pop. These writers are painting a portrait of victimization and marginalization that just doesn't match the facts. I mean, when you're gonna call Gloria fucking Estefan someone who couldn't choose her own career moves, you really need to stop and rethink. And you know this stuff, probably even better than I do.

also d40 what's the joke pls

― niels, Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:14 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the idea that that selection somehow adequately represents or even comprehends R&B's musical contributions this decade is laughable

also you missed Jazmine Sullivan, a rare counterexample to what i'm actually talking about

I didn't say that selection "adequately represents" 21st century R&B

you wrote that "the list unquestionably, IMO, and drastically underrates R&B" and I wanted to make the point that the top 20 was full of R&B-informed songs (I didn't "miss" Sullivan, she's at #137 and I was quoting the top 20)

but I'm no expert on contemporary R&B would love to see your list of 20 representative tracks

Ok, the idea that it’s noteworthy a lot of music would be “r&b-informed” is basically useless—pop music as a whole is r&b infomed

But this canon clearly pushes against the r&b canon, or treats it w oblivious disdain & there’s no real analysis of what’s lost or missing

that was indeed carefully phrased, I'd say Sharon Jones and Amy Winehouse is straight up (revivalist) rhythm and blues, stuff like Solange, Beyoncé and Alicia Keys comfortably contemporary R&B

list has Ciara, King, Jhene Aiko, Tweet, Jill Scott, Kali Uchis, India Arie, Blu Cantrell, Sza but maybe you feel it's missing Cassie, Dawn Richard, Kehlani, Kelela, Tinashe?

Anyway I'm really not looking for an argument here, I just thought the criticism seemed perhaps a bit out of proportion with the offensiveness of the list. I think it'd be great if you would share your idea for a 21st century female rnb canon, maybe there isn't really one?

One last time on my pet peeve--

She also acknowledges that "There are no reggae or soca songs on the list..."

Sorry Faye-Ann Lyons, you don't rate

plus no afropop/afrobeats (programmed beat African music) artists-- Sorry Yemi Alade, you don't rate.

Anyway I'm really not looking for an argument here, I just thought the criticism seemed perhaps a bit out of proportion with the offensiveness of the list. I think it'd be great if you would share your idea for a 21st century female rnb canon, maybe there isn't really one?

― niels, Friday, August 3, 2018 6:25 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i have to provide my own canon to argue this ignores large portions of the actual R&B canon?

how about destiny's child, brandy, missy, amerie, keyshia cole, mariah carey, mary j blige, erykah badu, aaliyah, keri hilson, jennifer hudson, janet, fantasia, teedra moses, ashanti ... im sure im missing people

the interpretation of "R&B" as portrayed by the list feels limited by critical acclaim & a lack of investment in / immersion in R&B discourse imo...saying "but kali uchis" is a strike against yr point. even your examples of who should have made it hews very close to crit-friendly singing fare (surprised you didn't say FKA twigs?) ignoring the post-church music soul/R&B wing in favor of the kind of stuff that appeals to critics & brits lol

im not counting their 'premiered in the 00s' excused since they break it arbitrarily & because the genre is literally driven by women in their 30s/40s consumer wise so it seems absurd

K Michelle too, surely? Or are you only talking 00’s here?

Not looking at the list I know it’s missing Chavela Vargas and therefore not worth my time.

Kudos for Selena in the top 20 though if that’s the list that was copy pasted above.

Actually that list is pretty decent.

Still no Chavela Vargas makes me sad. I suspect it’s also missing many afro+latin singers but that could be a separate list.

1000% k Michelle

Sevyn streeter

“Motivation” by kelly Rowland >>>>

Hell yeah

amerie and fka both on the list

you don't have to argue anything, I accept that this list is missing a lot of rnb I just want to know what it is because I like the genre

motivation is definitely missing!

I missed Amerie (I don’t consider Fka r&b)

reggaeton is easily more popular than any other form of latin music in america right now

it's great to see I'm With Her finally getting the credit they deserve.