Tango in the Night POLL (Fleetwood Mac)

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can we ban "Miami Vice production" as criticism and phrase?

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, August 2, 2018 12:43 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no, if anything it should be projected on the walls of every recording studio as a deterrent

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:58 (three years ago) link

feel free to substitute "VHS cover meme"

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:58 (three years ago) link

alfred, thanks for the tip on little lies extended mix - have to hear that

sleepy sweet (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:04 (three years ago) link

The term "Miami Vice production" as a catch-all name for mid-to-late '80s production trends is useless, anyway.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:06 (three years ago) link

Miami Vice used Bryan Ferry and Andy Taylor in its soundtracks: two distinct hair visions for the eighties.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:07 (three years ago) link

I mean sure, you can tell that Tango in the Night, No Jacket Required, Born in the U.S.A. and Songs from the Big Chair all came out in the same decade, but the productions are still different from one another.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:09 (three years ago) link

Also, I can't believe we're in 2018 and we're still seeing '80s records being criticised for sounding like records that were made in the '80s.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:11 (three years ago) link

I was thinking more of modern-day records that strive to sound dated

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:23 (three years ago) link

Yet it's perfectly acceptable for Guided by Voices to record on 4-tracks and The White Stripes to record on old analogue equipment?

"Dated" isn't a pejorative, btw.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:08 (three years ago) link

it is a sound I find highly unpleasant to listen to, how's that

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:11 (three years ago) link

That's better!

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:12 (three years ago) link

Framing "Big Love" as a missed opportunity presupposes that the live version had some notional existence at the time the original was composed - is there any evidence of that? I agree that Buckingham's live version is spellbinding, when I saw them live a few years ago it was the one moment of the show that gave me a chill even though I knew what was coming. But I've always assumed it was something that Buckingham developed after the fact. I'm just happy both versions of the song exist.

Tim F, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:10 (three years ago) link

I don't think the studio version of 'Big Love' was a missed opportunity at all. The live version is indeed great, but the studio version still holds up.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:14 (three years ago) link

Obviously the other thing about Tango is that it's a front to back production masterpiece that feels totally one of a kind and cohesive* so the idea of wanting to swap out some of its rococo excesses and make it less "Miami Vice" feels like a violence to me. If ever there was a record where "sounding like Miami Vice" was elevated to the level of vital ontology it was this one.

*except where Stevie's songs fall over.

Tim F, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:18 (three years ago) link

in time this has become my favourite mac record

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:19 (three years ago) link

er next time to mirage

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:19 (three years ago) link

Another issue that I have with this whole "sounding like Miami Vice" bullshit is that Tango in the Night doesn't sound like Miami Vice at all.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:24 (three years ago) link

otm

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:25 (three years ago) link

Tim F OTM about the quality of the production on this record, though - although I don't think the production is overstuffed or even excessive. I can think of far, far, far worse examples of heavy handed '80s production.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:27 (three years ago) link

Seriously, this isn't even that "80s."

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:29 (three years ago) link

Are there even snares that go "poosh?"

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:29 (three years ago) link

The snare sounds are quite tasteful across most of the record, thinking about it - I can't think of any moments where cavernous reverb is applied or any excessive gated reverbs.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:33 (three years ago) link

I guess Isn't It Midnight is pretty 80s, right down to the tempo.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:34 (three years ago) link

The production on this record is '80s, though - it couldn't possibly be placed in any other decade - it just uses the trends of the time tastefully instead of in an OTT way like others did.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:38 (three years ago) link

agreed. this record sounds super nice, not to simplify it - but yeah

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:38 (three years ago) link

It's basically the 80s way of making a record sound 70s dry, when most 80s signifiers lean hard on the studio mush.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:41 (three years ago) link

"isn't it midnight" is like "what if the heart s/t were tasteful," a great question with a great answer

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:43 (three years ago) link

I dunno, the pristine digital quality of the overall sound and the programmed, layered nature of the production and the keyboard sounds used and the precise, automated nature of the mixes place this square in '80s territory for me, even without the massive reverbs. It has more in common with Brothers in Arms than it does No Jacket Required.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:47 (three years ago) link

As for the drumming on 'Big Love', my guess is the same as Josh's in that I think it's actually a combination of programming and overdubbed drum parts. My guess is that Buckingham laid down a basic drum machine part as a guide (to get the timing tight) and built the track up from that, and then got Mick to overdub toms, "real" snare fills, cymbal washes etc. It's possible that the guide track was replaced eventually, but it doesn't sound like it.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:00 (three years ago) link

If anything that's another intriguing data point in favor of the production: it's hard to tell what is programmed and what is Mick fuckin' Fleetwood.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:32 (three years ago) link

Big Love is all about the Balearic masterpiece of a remix by Arthur baker imo

i know kore-eda (or something), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:34 (three years ago) link

*except where Stevie's songs fall over.

uh whassamatta. baby.

Arthur Funzonerelli (stevie), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:42 (three years ago) link

That alt Mystified is pretty awesome and weird, though there's a single recurring drum sound in it that I'm finding crazily distracting.

Arthur Funzonerelli (stevie), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:42 (three years ago) link

Framing "Big Love" as a missed opportunity presupposes that the live version had some notional existence at the time the original was composed - is there any evidence of that?

In this interview he talks about Big Love being about "the potential of a single guitar doing the work of a whole track", so that tells me he might have written it that way first, then added all the other elements later in the process

https://youtu.be/iBSWt0b4K8E?t=71

enochroot, Friday, 3 August 2018 01:45 (two years ago) link

and the dream says I WANT YOU
and the dream is gone

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 August 2018 02:06 (two years ago) link

I never ever ever got burned out on 80s production styles/techniques. 90s and 00s, almost immediately.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 3 August 2018 02:21 (two years ago) link

If anything, my appreciation for the technical skill of '80s production has only increased with time. There were a lot of legitimately stunning production achievements in the '80s. Of course, there are many examples of the trends of the time done badly, but that exists in every decade.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, 3 August 2018 06:24 (two years ago) link

two years pass...

The tightly shrinkwrapped Fairlight-playground production on this is killing me in the best possible way. Sounds in places like the mutant child of Mylène Farmer’s “Ainsi Sout je...” and “Cupid & Psyche” Scritti. Had never listened to this album in its entirety before yesterday.

SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Monday, 17 August 2020 08:45 (eleven months ago) link

If anything, my appreciation for the technical skill of '80s production has only increased with time. There were a lot of legitimately stunning production achievements in the '80s. Of course, there are many examples of the trends of the time done badly, but that exists in every decade.

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican)

lol what a pompous halfwit

buzza, Monday, 17 August 2020 09:06 (eleven months ago) link

“Isn’t It Midnight” deserved better.

And “Caroline” has become the go to song for my 3-year old to perform her experimental ballet routines.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Monday, 17 August 2020 12:02 (eleven months ago) link

five months pass...

Would be very curious to have a long discussion with the person who voted for "You and I, Part II"

the least famous person you were surprised to discover (emsworth), Monday, 25 January 2021 09:11 (six months ago) link

Seven Wonders" (Stewart, Nicks) – 3:38 0

the hell

I finally heard the whole thing after hearing the singles for 33 years; would've voted for "Seven Wonders", with "Family Man" an amusing novelty. The production on the rest is not to my taste; I wonder to what extent drug intoxication and consequent decline in playing and singing ability necessitated Buckingham's sample-heavy approach?

Halfway there but for you, Monday, 25 January 2021 13:28 (six months ago) link

I don't think Buckingham's ability to play has suffered even slightly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZZp76M4NGc

Ray Cooney as "Crotch" (stevie), Monday, 25 January 2021 13:30 (six months ago) link

i can't listen to 'family man' without thinking what it would be like if henry rollins was doing the backing vocal part

mage uluk (NickB), Monday, 25 January 2021 13:37 (six months ago) link

family... MAN

Ray Cooney as "Crotch" (stevie), Monday, 25 January 2021 13:37 (six months ago) link

The production is the album, as in, insofar as songs exist as moods or humors Buckingham's mix bodies them.

The title track's as metal a moment as the Mac had achieved since I'm So Afraid off the 1980 Live album

Ray Cooney as "Crotch" (stevie), Monday, 25 January 2021 13:45 (six months ago) link

Buckingham's solo in "Isn't It Midnight" too.

Not Buckingham's playing, I just wonder to what extent the aesthetic was determined by having a drummer and lead singer/songwriter in sub-optimal shape. Mirage has a lot less of that sampled sound although the technology did exist and was certainly available to them.

Halfway there but for you, Monday, 25 January 2021 14:02 (six months ago) link


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