Tango in the Night POLL (Fleetwood Mac)

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didn't he have Mick and John rerecord all the drum and bass tracks?

niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 06:15 (four months ago) Permalink

He might have. Mick and John pop up on his solo albums as well. There are so many drum overdubs on "Big Love," specifically - those kind of marching fills at the end, cymbal washes, little fills - that it makes sense some of that is Mick (who iirc at the time of "Tango" was totally zonked out and living in a trailer in Lindsey's yard). Most of it sounds like programming or something Lindsey could do, but Mick can be such a smooth drummer maybe it is him. Not even sure I've ever even noticed a bass on "Big Love!" Or keys. Has the band ever played it live as a band?

There are definitely a few complete Lindsey solo tracks that got ported over directly to "Say You Will" with either Mick and John on the original track or sort of dubbed on later.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:40 (four months ago) Permalink

They do 'Big Love' all the time but as Lindsey's Acoustic Moment.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:50 (four months ago) Permalink

But never as a full band, right?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:54 (four months ago) Permalink

Playing Big Love as a full band would just obfuscate the insane skill level required to play that guitar part and then manage to sing on top of it.

The version on Tango In The Night was such a missed opportunity. If he had recorded it in the mode of "Never Going Back Again", it would have been a classic. But it was 1987, not 1977, so instead we got the porn backing vocals and the miami vice production.

enochroot, Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:56 (four months ago) Permalink

the og big love is great, how can you float "miami vice production" as a criticism and listen to the rest of the album

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:58 (four months ago) Permalink

i'd like to suggest instead that it's lindsey's horny version of "running up that hill"

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:59 (four months ago) Permalink

fair point, i suppose i do have the same issue with the rest of the album.

big love just feels different because of the missed opportunity. i remember when that song came out, and I just didn't connect with it all -- the "ugh/ahh" part at the end was really the defining element of the song. then several decades later, i heard a version of lindsay performing it solo, and it was stunning. i really couldn't believe it was the same song. or rather couldn't believe that the song he was playing was buried somewhere in the album version.

enochroot, Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:07 (four months ago) Permalink

"running up that hill" is already v v horny
xp

21st savagery fox (m bison), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:21 (four months ago) Permalink

but "big love" is def kate bushy and why i think it is dope af

21st savagery fox (m bison), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:21 (four months ago) Permalink

can we ban "Miami Vice production" as criticism and phrase?

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:43 (four months ago) Permalink

i'd like to suggest instead that it's lindsey's horny version of "running up that hill"

― princess of hell (BradNelson),

I'd long thought "Caroline" was but otm

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:44 (four months ago) Permalink

can we ban "Miami Vice production" as criticism and phrase?

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, August 2, 2018 12:43 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no, if anything it should be projected on the walls of every recording studio as a deterrent

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:58 (four months ago) Permalink

feel free to substitute "VHS cover meme"

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:58 (four months ago) Permalink

alfred, thanks for the tip on little lies extended mix - have to hear that

sleepy sweet (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:04 (four months ago) Permalink

The term "Miami Vice production" as a catch-all name for mid-to-late '80s production trends is useless, anyway.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:06 (four months ago) Permalink

Miami Vice used Bryan Ferry and Andy Taylor in its soundtracks: two distinct hair visions for the eighties.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:07 (four months ago) Permalink

I mean sure, you can tell that Tango in the Night, No Jacket Required, Born in the U.S.A. and Songs from the Big Chair all came out in the same decade, but the productions are still different from one another.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:09 (four months ago) Permalink

Also, I can't believe we're in 2018 and we're still seeing '80s records being criticised for sounding like records that were made in the '80s.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:11 (four months ago) Permalink

I was thinking more of modern-day records that strive to sound dated

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:23 (four months ago) Permalink

Yet it's perfectly acceptable for Guided by Voices to record on 4-tracks and The White Stripes to record on old analogue equipment?

"Dated" isn't a pejorative, btw.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:08 (four months ago) Permalink

it is a sound I find highly unpleasant to listen to, how's that

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:11 (four months ago) Permalink

That's better!

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:12 (four months ago) Permalink

Framing "Big Love" as a missed opportunity presupposes that the live version had some notional existence at the time the original was composed - is there any evidence of that? I agree that Buckingham's live version is spellbinding, when I saw them live a few years ago it was the one moment of the show that gave me a chill even though I knew what was coming. But I've always assumed it was something that Buckingham developed after the fact. I'm just happy both versions of the song exist.

Tim F, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:10 (four months ago) Permalink

I don't think the studio version of 'Big Love' was a missed opportunity at all. The live version is indeed great, but the studio version still holds up.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:14 (four months ago) Permalink

Obviously the other thing about Tango is that it's a front to back production masterpiece that feels totally one of a kind and cohesive* so the idea of wanting to swap out some of its rococo excesses and make it less "Miami Vice" feels like a violence to me. If ever there was a record where "sounding like Miami Vice" was elevated to the level of vital ontology it was this one.

*except where Stevie's songs fall over.

Tim F, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:18 (four months ago) Permalink

in time this has become my favourite mac record

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:19 (four months ago) Permalink

er next time to mirage

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:19 (four months ago) Permalink

Another issue that I have with this whole "sounding like Miami Vice" bullshit is that Tango in the Night doesn't sound like Miami Vice at all.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:24 (four months ago) Permalink

otm

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:25 (four months ago) Permalink

Tim F OTM about the quality of the production on this record, though - although I don't think the production is overstuffed or even excessive. I can think of far, far, far worse examples of heavy handed '80s production.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:27 (four months ago) Permalink

Seriously, this isn't even that "80s."

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:29 (four months ago) Permalink

Are there even snares that go "poosh?"

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:29 (four months ago) Permalink

The snare sounds are quite tasteful across most of the record, thinking about it - I can't think of any moments where cavernous reverb is applied or any excessive gated reverbs.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:33 (four months ago) Permalink

I guess Isn't It Midnight is pretty 80s, right down to the tempo.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:34 (four months ago) Permalink

The production on this record is '80s, though - it couldn't possibly be placed in any other decade - it just uses the trends of the time tastefully instead of in an OTT way like others did.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:38 (four months ago) Permalink

agreed. this record sounds super nice, not to simplify it - but yeah

eris (Ross), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:38 (four months ago) Permalink

It's basically the 80s way of making a record sound 70s dry, when most 80s signifiers lean hard on the studio mush.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:41 (four months ago) Permalink

"isn't it midnight" is like "what if the heart s/t were tasteful," a great question with a great answer

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:43 (four months ago) Permalink

I dunno, the pristine digital quality of the overall sound and the programmed, layered nature of the production and the keyboard sounds used and the precise, automated nature of the mixes place this square in '80s territory for me, even without the massive reverbs. It has more in common with Brothers in Arms than it does No Jacket Required.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 20:47 (four months ago) Permalink

As for the drumming on 'Big Love', my guess is the same as Josh's in that I think it's actually a combination of programming and overdubbed drum parts. My guess is that Buckingham laid down a basic drum machine part as a guide (to get the timing tight) and built the track up from that, and then got Mick to overdub toms, "real" snare fills, cymbal washes etc. It's possible that the guide track was replaced eventually, but it doesn't sound like it.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:00 (four months ago) Permalink

If anything that's another intriguing data point in favor of the production: it's hard to tell what is programmed and what is Mick fuckin' Fleetwood.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:32 (four months ago) Permalink

Big Love is all about the Balearic masterpiece of a remix by Arthur baker imo

i know kore-eda (or something), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:34 (four months ago) Permalink

*except where Stevie's songs fall over.

uh whassamatta. baby.

Arthur Funzonerelli (stevie), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:42 (four months ago) Permalink

That alt Mystified is pretty awesome and weird, though there's a single recurring drum sound in it that I'm finding crazily distracting.

Arthur Funzonerelli (stevie), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:42 (four months ago) Permalink

Framing "Big Love" as a missed opportunity presupposes that the live version had some notional existence at the time the original was composed - is there any evidence of that?

In this interview he talks about Big Love being about "the potential of a single guitar doing the work of a whole track", so that tells me he might have written it that way first, then added all the other elements later in the process

https://youtu.be/iBSWt0b4K8E?t=71

enochroot, Friday, 3 August 2018 01:45 (four months ago) Permalink

and the dream says I WANT YOU
and the dream is gone

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 August 2018 02:06 (four months ago) Permalink

I never ever ever got burned out on 80s production styles/techniques. 90s and 00s, almost immediately.

Johnny Fever, Friday, 3 August 2018 02:21 (four months ago) Permalink

If anything, my appreciation for the technical skill of '80s production has only increased with time. There were a lot of legitimately stunning production achievements in the '80s. Of course, there are many examples of the trends of the time done badly, but that exists in every decade.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, 3 August 2018 06:24 (four months ago) Permalink


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