Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

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The fact that no pundits (or bookies) seem to be taking Everton at all seriously is kind of weird. Tonight on fivelive it was all Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U as per, with the assumption that one defeat to Charlton has put paid to Everton's very slim title hopes, whereas Man U can come back and win the premiership on the back of tonight's one-nil scraping past Villa. It never occurs to anyone that Everton are there because they are playing more cleverly (I can't dignify them with the word "better") than anyone else.

I hope they win it, or at least break up the big three, for the reasons Doctor C said.

ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 22:06 (nineteen years ago) link

In the time it took me to walk from the car park into the newborn section of Mothercare World on Purley Way we seemed to concede two goals and get a man sent off. Fair enough, it's taken us until game 20 to have an absolute stinker.

I am getting a bit sick of EFC seemingly never being the commentary match on Five Live - it's always some entirely predictable Gunners/Chelski romp (or else it's Alan Green grumbling about another naggingly unconvincing Liverpool/Man U performance). I imagine we'll get the full VIP treatment on the airwaves this Saturday as Defoe tears us to bits.

We can't get that transfer window open quick enough (someone should throw a brick); no cover at all and major injury #1 has just arrived: Nigel Martyn out for a month. Rooney, Radzinski, Jeffers, Pembridge, Alexandersson, Unsworth, Gemmill, Linderoth - all gone. It's very threadbare below the first-choice XI. It's for this reason that I find the general tone of condescension towards our achievements thus far in 04-05 a bit irksome but also kinda understandable. We could keep checkmating teams in one-nilness if everyone remains magically fit but that's not going to happen; Chelsea would still average 2pts/game if they had eight internationals kidnapped.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 28 December 2004 23:19 (nineteen years ago) link

souness hired for being an authoritarian - he's only an authoritarian in the sense that he'll engage enthusiastically in petty/violent training ground squabbles himself. he's shown that he can stand up to anyone - BUT he's never shown that he can *solve* training ground disharmony - everyone just left blackburn saying what a childish twat he was. he was a shit appointment and deserves the sturrock treatment more than paul sturrock did (ie. booted out without being given the chance to prove himself - its far to unlikely.)

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 00:37 (nineteen years ago) link

is souness supposed to be a calming influence on the troubled dressing-room? isn't this the man who had major bust-ups with yorke, cole, gillespie and dunn at blackburn? jesus.
-- weasel diesel (kilian(dot)murphy24@mail.dcu.ie), September 6th, 2004.

otm!

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 00:40 (nineteen years ago) link

The other day we went through a village called Everton (after the Christchurch intervention). It looked quite nice. I sang 'EV-ER-TON: SHIT!' all the way through it. Sadly, it was a small village. Perhaps I should move there.

I am looking forward to the transfer window. The Nun has given the board a list of four players. Robbie Savage denies all responsibility for his future. Etc.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:31 (nineteen years ago) link

right now, Catalunya are playing Argentina, it makes for diverting viewing. It's a shame it's on at the other end of the house

Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Ah yes, the Christmas Autonomous Region Selection matches. I think the Catalans are/were unbeaten for something like 300 years.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 30 December 2004 14:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Only Brazil have ever beaten them...... in 1958 or somesuch

Porkpie (porkpie), Thursday, 30 December 2004 15:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I really wish certain Evertonians hadn't let hubris bubble to the surface after the derby win and talked about the gap between EFC and Chelsea being more important than the gap between EFC and LFC. The former is now 12pts and the latter is down to 3pts after Liverpool held grimly on to a win in East Anglia this afternoon.

I'm trying to rationalise this little blip in terms of things that were long overdue - the Tight Game Lost Late On Through Indecision And Indiscipline (quite a few last season, but none before the Charlton game in 04-05) and the Thrashing By Side With Glut Of Attacking Flair (used to happen a lot under Smith, not this season since the opening day). Also slated to make an appearance before long: Agonising Home Reverse After Dominating Possession (plenty of these in 03-04, just the Spurs game in September so far this season) and Bright Start Ends Game As Contest Inside 30min With Surprisingly Good Finishing (did this vs Fulham, Leeds and Spurs last year but never this season - Beattie might change this).

Bit worrying that Martyn can keep 10 clean sheets in 19.5 games and Wright concedes seven goals in 140 minutes. We might need to score five vs Portsmouth.

I think 65pts is still a realistic target: 7-4-6 would do this. That's been good enough for a top six finish in each of the last nine seasons and a CL position in '98 and '04. I think it might be between LFC and Spurs for 4th spot ultimately.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 3 January 2005 15:01 (nineteen years ago) link

i've been playing the Career Mode on Fifa 2005 for a while and it's only yesterday when i noticed that the simulated premiership table had Arsenal, Everton, Chelsea and Man Utd as the top four!

how weird!

ken c (ken c), Monday, 3 January 2005 15:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I went to White Hart Lane on Saturday (as a neutral pretending to be a Spurs fan) and Spurs could easily have scored eight. I can't see Everton getting anywhere near the Champions League if they carry on like that.

The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 3 January 2005 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Any significance to the fact that the first initials of the top five Premier League clubs in table order today spell CAMEL?

Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Spurs could easily have scored eight

Well, they had eight shots on target if the BBC stats are correct. So, Wright did OK considering the shambles going on in front of him. I saw the highlights and, yes, Spurs were rampant.

I think the presumption is we that can't be that fragile again, but we can and we will as injuries accumulate. I wonder about the wisdom of spending two-thirds of our apparent transfer budget on a talented but inconsistent big-name striker with a sub-1-in-3 goalscoring record.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Probably not. (xpost)

The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:15 (nineteen years ago) link

How can anyone choose Everton over Villa? No sense of glamour, some people. Still, it might have upset the delicate balance of mercurial South American loonies at Villa Park.

I once saw an article about James Beattie and he was a robot in the pictures, you could see his wires and stuff. I think he was jumping over rooftops too.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Hot off the rumour mill: Gravesen to Real Madrid.
Logical extension: Owen to Everton.

No, I don't believe it either.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 10:47 (nineteen years ago) link

I believe half of it, PJM. Unfortunately.

It increasingly looks as if TG isn't going anywhere near a new EFC contract so the question is - get £2m for him now off Real or let him go for free in July. £2m = about four Premiership places, I think. TG = probably the difference between top four/six and top half or Europe and no Europe.

I see Super Kev left for WBA last week. Walter Smith's Small Number Of Good Ideas will soon be history.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:04 (nineteen years ago) link

But will TG be tempted by the much-discussed fourth place striker's spot at Madrid? It looks to me like another example of Madrid and Barcelona's habit of hoovering up anyone else's promising players and then turning them to mush. I suppose other carrots will be dangled.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Gravesen the Galactico seems likely alright.

Just reading this morning Henchoz is on his way out, to Celtic or Rangers, supposedly. He's really deteriorated so much, though obviously Liverpool need a new central defender and have done for some time. Be interesting to see how Pellegrino does.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:20 (nineteen years ago) link

pellegrino:liverpool::laurent blanc:man united?

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, he's certainly not a striker. I don't know enough about Madrid's squad to know where he'd fit in. That he's not cup-tied is his major appeal to the Euro giants, I think - good cover for the first XI. This is the first season where's he played with any consistency for Everton; to see someone so relishing their every outing in a Royal Blue shirt while simultaneously not even considering extending the engagement just depresses me a bit. He's even got the accent now.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:27 (nineteen years ago) link

I've already thought of that Kilian, but nah, surely not!

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Gravesen to Real = the end for Beckham?

This is not a sentence I ever expected to write in my life, it must be said, much as like Gravesen. I also apologise to Mike for tempting fate with my last comment in this thread, as well as "Kevin Kilbane - Galactico!" during the summer.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:38 (nineteen years ago) link

gravesen isn't a striker, MJ otm. he actually would have a good chance of making regular starts for madrid, they never filled the tough-tackling ball-winning midfielder void left when makelele departed. they usually play beckham and guti in the centre - neither of whom win much ball - and personally i feel beckham isn't suited to the position at all (the occasional delightful sprayed pass to the flanks aside). becks should move back to a london club and start playing on the right wing again - gravesen can take over the central midfield spot at real. zidane and figo usually play in the wider midfield positions. celades is the other central midfielder at real, who's slightly more physical than becks and guti, but gravesen should have no problems easing ahead of him in the pecking order.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Matt: you can get Zinedine Kilbane T-shirts from the EFC shop, y'know.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought he was a striker all along.

Now I look like a girl.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't want to leave Everton right now.

Does he play 'in the hole' then?

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 11:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Carsley plays in 'the hole' (4-1-4-1 more than 4-4-1-1), Gravesen is effectively the reincarnation of Peter Reid.

Perhaps if I wrote him a nice letter he'd stay?

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 13 January 2005 12:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes, write him a letter. I might too. 'You are a great striker.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/players/g/gravesen_41516.stm

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 12:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I have just read an interview with DAVE BOYLE in WSC.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 13 January 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link

BBC website says a deal has been agreed for Gravesen. So, we're down £4.4m this month, gained an inconsistent, unfit striker and lost our playmaker. Season over. This is like selling Peter Reid in January 1984 and signing, I dunno, Luther Blissett.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 January 2005 10:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Sivebaek [the agent] added: "Thomas was very happy at Everton, but when Real Madrid want to sign you, you cannot say no."

Agents, eh?

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 10:15 (nineteen years ago) link

You CAN say no, you can say, "Actually, I enjoy the challenge of helping a club with a small squad and comparatively meagre resources return to something approaching their former glories, through hard work and team spirit; I enjoy the company of my teammates, I have immense respect for my manager, I have a great rapport with the fans, I earn a lot of money already and I'm not likely to lose my international place by staying here; going and becoming a benchwarmer at the most successful side in European club football in the knowledge that even I may be surplus to requirements come the summer so profligate are the management doesn't appeal very much. Thank you and good night."

He could've said that.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 January 2005 10:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Here it is in foreign:
http://elmundodeporte.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2005/01/13/futbol/1105651019.html
Nothing new, except they claim it might be Beckham who is relegated to the bench, rather than poxy old Guti. Also, they spell Wanderley 'Vanderlei' or something.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 11:00 (nineteen years ago) link

beckham will be gone come summer, i have no doubt. it will be a london club. what odds beckham to spurs? can they afford it?

i am going off topic here, unfortunately.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 14 January 2005 11:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Sadly, I get the feeling Vanderlei Luxinterior might sort Real Madrid out a bit, sort of like the Capello months. I hope I'm wrong.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I am very proud of the interview; it's the best thing done on us for a long time.

Mike OTM - lure of Real Madrid is cockrot; they were shit until 1999, had two good seasons, and have been living off the petrol fumes of hype after the gasoline of 'being good' disappearred (see 'Manchester United')

Dave B (daveb), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:21 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm ill at home and bored, and have their cup game with Valladolid on the TV. They are playing reserves and youngsters, much like the huge English clubs in the League Cup. The team includes Michael Owen.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:27 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't quite see where Beckham could go if he was to return to the Premiership. Has he lost his lustre enough for Chelsea not to even consider him? I'm fairly sure Arsenal couldn't afford him, wouldn't want him and I doubt he'd want to go there. Spurs is a possibility if there's European football involved, but Frank Arnesen probably has his eye on some Dutch wonderkid available at a fraction of the price.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:31 (nineteen years ago) link

My tip would be Middlesbrough though, if he wants to move there. I presume relations between Beckham and Steve McLaren are good.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes, I would be proud too, about that interview.

Beckham > Japan, Qatar, Bolton, Boro, Rangers, somewhere like that. Also I suppose there will be a new round of millionaires wanting to make a mark.

Chileswatchers! It's time for 'Working Lunch'.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 12:43 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't get the reference to 'Z-Cars' in the original question.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 13:26 (nineteen years ago) link

It's our theme, PJM. It's an arrangement of an old Liverpool folk song called "Johnny Todd." When the Blues took the field against Villa last February (my first trip to Goodison in a decade) I'm not ashamed to admit hearing the tune made...something fly into my eye.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 14 January 2005 13:34 (nineteen years ago) link

why hasn't anybody mentioned that grav is a tad more of an attacking player than makalele? surely, grav is a thug, but what he really wants is to do his long shifts and nice assists. he's a bit like the gangsta who really just wants to read books.

Jay-Kid (Jay-Kid), Friday, 14 January 2005 18:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Khm, excuse me but - unless samthung flew in my eye at some crucial postpoint - there's no mention of the Morientes move to L'pool, on this thread so far, or is there?
He'll be a strikeforce to reckon with, for Everton or whoever, surely.

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 14 January 2005 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm hearing the Human League version of 'Get Carter'. Am I close?

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 14 January 2005 19:31 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/tv/titles/zcars.shtml

Mooro (Mooro), Friday, 14 January 2005 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm also hearing the theme from 'Some Mothers Do Have 'Em'. I suppose anything Ronnie Hazelhurst would do.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 15 January 2005 10:51 (nineteen years ago) link

I haven't got Real Player. Perhaps we could whistle it today. Double the nostalgia.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 15 January 2005 10:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Get real!

Mooro (Mooro), Saturday, 15 January 2005 11:42 (nineteen years ago) link


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