I'm sure all the candidates will have the correct left position on Israel!
― President Keyes, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 17:44 (five years ago) link
Re: Israel/Palestine, here's a colleague of mine on the subject:
But the reality is, what Israel is posing as a, quote, two-state solution is a Swiss cheese, in which Israeli-controlled territory is the cheese, meaning it’s contiguous, and the Palestinian towns and villages in that small, shrunken part are the holes, not contiguous. So that’s what we’re dealing with.What we have today is one state. If we define a state as a territory in which one government controls, that’s what we have in historic Palestine. Israel, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, West Jerusalem, and Gaza, all together are controlled by one government. That’s the Israeli government. The Palestinian Authority has municipal authority–garbage collection, teachers, etc. It doesn’t control land, people, courts. It has courts, but they’re not the dominant courts. The Israeli military courts are still dominant in the West Bank. We hear that Gaza is no longer occupied because in 2005 Israel made the decision to withdraw the 7,000 settlers and take the soldiers and redeploy them out of Gazan territory onto the border of Gaza, which is also completely enclosed in a wall. We don’t hear as much about the Gaza wall as we do about the West Bank wall, but both are completely enclosed.What we have in that situation is the exact definition of the international covenant against the crime of apartheid, which defines the situation in which two different populations live in the same territory with two different legal systems designed to privilege one group over another group.JAY: Yeah. One group can’t vote.BENNIS: One group not only can’t vote, but one group–for example, if you look at the West Bank today, if you look at the question of children, if children throw stones, if a settler child throws a stone, in fact, nothing happens. In fact, they are never really held accountable. But in theory that child is appropriately brought to a juvenile court, where the goal of the court is rehabilitation of children and where the dignity of the child is to be paramount.If a 12-year-old Palestinian child–or in one case a three-year-old child was pulled out of her bed in the middle of the night and told if she didn’t say where her brother was, who was charged with throwing stones, that–the soldiers said they would destroy her home. A three-year-old. I mean, it’s impossible to imagine. But a 12-year-old child, Palestinian child, charged with the same thing, of throwing rocks, is held accountable in a military court.And now they have a special military court for children, which is–you know, this is the definition of apartheid in one state. So that’s, I think, important to recognize what exists today, because if we’re looking at what there needs to be, we have to start with what exists.JAY: Right. And I would even say that even if you got rid of the Swiss cheese and then had two-state, you’re going to have one country with this practically modern European economy–BENNIS: Right. Twenty-third wealthiest country in the world,–JAY: –next to–.BENNIS: –and another country of enormous impoverishment.JAY: I don’t understand how two-states could ever be equal.
What we have today is one state. If we define a state as a territory in which one government controls, that’s what we have in historic Palestine. Israel, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, West Jerusalem, and Gaza, all together are controlled by one government. That’s the Israeli government. The Palestinian Authority has municipal authority–garbage collection, teachers, etc. It doesn’t control land, people, courts. It has courts, but they’re not the dominant courts. The Israeli military courts are still dominant in the West Bank. We hear that Gaza is no longer occupied because in 2005 Israel made the decision to withdraw the 7,000 settlers and take the soldiers and redeploy them out of Gazan territory onto the border of Gaza, which is also completely enclosed in a wall. We don’t hear as much about the Gaza wall as we do about the West Bank wall, but both are completely enclosed.
What we have in that situation is the exact definition of the international covenant against the crime of apartheid, which defines the situation in which two different populations live in the same territory with two different legal systems designed to privilege one group over another group.
JAY: Yeah. One group can’t vote.
BENNIS: One group not only can’t vote, but one group–for example, if you look at the West Bank today, if you look at the question of children, if children throw stones, if a settler child throws a stone, in fact, nothing happens. In fact, they are never really held accountable. But in theory that child is appropriately brought to a juvenile court, where the goal of the court is rehabilitation of children and where the dignity of the child is to be paramount.
If a 12-year-old Palestinian child–or in one case a three-year-old child was pulled out of her bed in the middle of the night and told if she didn’t say where her brother was, who was charged with throwing stones, that–the soldiers said they would destroy her home. A three-year-old. I mean, it’s impossible to imagine. But a 12-year-old child, Palestinian child, charged with the same thing, of throwing rocks, is held accountable in a military court.
And now they have a special military court for children, which is–you know, this is the definition of apartheid in one state. So that’s, I think, important to recognize what exists today, because if we’re looking at what there needs to be, we have to start with what exists.
JAY: Right. And I would even say that even if you got rid of the Swiss cheese and then had two-state, you’re going to have one country with this practically modern European economy–
BENNIS: Right. Twenty-third wealthiest country in the world,–
JAY: –next to–.
BENNIS: –and another country of enormous impoverishment.
JAY: I don’t understand how two-states could ever be equal.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 17:55 (five years ago) link
I mean maybe complete Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and devolution of settlements to a notional second state with normalized relations is a pipe dream but at least one can articulate it as a goal, and I know ethnic nationalism is illegal now or whatever but I don’t think it’s any less of a pipe dream to suggest that Israel will reconstitute itself to not be a Jewish State. But I’m willfully dumb about all this stuff.
― devops mom (silby), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 18:02 (five years ago) link
Wrong thread tho at this point
― devops mom (silby), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 18:09 (five years ago) link
ya heard that
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 18:12 (five years ago) link
Yup. Substantially changing Israel's policies toward the Palestinians is not likely to occur in the foreseeable future through near term changes in the direction of the Democratic Party.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 18:16 (five years ago) link
nor, uh, 2020 presidential candidate speculation
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 18:29 (five years ago) link
Kamala Harris to publish memoir in early 2019. https://t.co/xrS2TXvZkQ pic.twitter.com/djPx13O1yQ— San Francisco Chronicle (@sfchronicle) July 17, 2018
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 20:28 (five years ago) link
Later than Obama published his iirc
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 20:43 (five years ago) link
It’ll barely be out before she announces!
― devops mom (silby), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 21:04 (five years ago) link
the chapters about getting the bankster's wrists slapped with hefty fines will be riveting
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 21:25 (five years ago) link
She will get to tell the moving tale of her difficult struggle to prevent imprisoned trans people from accessing HRT
― devops mom (silby), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 21:26 (five years ago) link
Is Adam Schiff ever mentioned? I like him whenever's he on CNN. He's quite boring and would make a good president, I think.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:22 (five years ago) link
to be honest we could really use a boring president again
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:26 (five years ago) link
if it comes down to sanders v harris it's gonna be 2016 all over again but worse
― global tetrahedron, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:46 (five years ago) link
If sanders runs I will personally push him into a crevasse
― devops mom (silby), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:46 (five years ago) link
I mean like also he wouldn’t make it far in a bigger field where all the candidates including Cory fucking Booker have moved in on his territory
― devops mom (silby), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:47 (five years ago) link
ehhh not that i think he'll run but a bigger field would help him this time around because he has the largest ride-or-die fanbase built in. plurality wins, like trump in 2016. obviously that year, the small field was a tremendous benefit to sanders tho obviously by itself not explanatory (see: martin o'mentum)
― This is a total Jeff Porcaro. (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:50 (five years ago) link
I like what Schiff is doing wrt to the investigation and calling out GOP obstruction but he’s only a congressman and not that progressive on the whole.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:50 (five years ago) link
I don't know if it's just homerism or what, but most of my Oregon friends seem to be under the impression Merkley's going to give it a go.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:52 (five years ago) link
and here in WA I'm not the only one thinking Inslee will give it a shot
― alomar lines, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:54 (five years ago) link
merk def appears to be keeping his options open, but i doubt he makes a dent in a big field
― Clay, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 22:54 (five years ago) link
Los Angeles mayor Eric Garcetti hasn't said he won't run yet. I suspect he'll do about as well as Jeb! did if he tries.
― nickn, Tuesday, 17 July 2018 23:23 (five years ago) link
Inslee isn't term limited and he would probably coast to reelection in 2020 so I don't know why he would run for president. I'd bet on Bob Ferguson over him, if I were picking Washington state people to run for president.
― devops mom (silby), Tuesday, 17 July 2018 23:37 (five years ago) link
Merkley's started his own PAC for electing Democrats in 2018 and my wife and I decided to feed his kitty for a hundred bucks. We figure it couldn't hurt him to have chits to call in later on, whether or not he shoots the moon on a presidential run in 2020.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 00:00 (five years ago) link
this is a wonderfully Canadian sentiment and I applaud it. Alas, no, he wouldn't stand a chance.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 01:00 (five years ago) link
Can't help but read "we could use a boring president again" as "can't wait till I can safely not give a shit about politics while the world burns down in a quieter fashion"
― Simon H., Wednesday, 18 July 2018 02:19 (five years ago) link
Yeah you shouldn’t actually
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 02:21 (five years ago) link
But it's a reference to something something Palestine, no?
― Frederik B
it's "begin reagan palestine"
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 02:30 (five years ago) link
inslee pres bid gets talked abt for “attack dog” vp, ferguson vs constantine for wa gov. all imo acourse
― alomar lines, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 05:05 (five years ago) link
Birthday party cheesecake jelly bean boom
― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 18 July 2018 14:57 (five years ago) link
Biden is good in a room and he does the hardhat thing well. But do you really think re-litigating '08-'16 is the way to win?— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) July 25, 2018
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 July 2018 21:10 (five years ago) link
― Simon H., Wednesday, July 18, 2018 2:19 AM (one week ago)
go to hell, btw
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 25 July 2018 23:05 (five years ago) link
i only take political advice from twitter parody accounts impersonating dead traitors
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Wednesday, 25 July 2018 23:19 (five years ago) link
Most of the presidents considered 'boring' by Americans have dropped bombs on or invaded other countries. Or instigated coups de etat. Even hapless Gerald Ford presided over the last gasps of the US Vietnam debacle. Whichever country Jimmy Carter bombed escapes me at the moment, but I am certain one exists.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 26 July 2018 01:03 (five years ago) link
Well there was the failed Iran hostage rescue
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 July 2018 01:07 (five years ago) link
When Carter sent arms to the Afghan mujahedeen against the USSR invasion, he undoubtedly sent military personnel, too. But on the whole, history's greatest monster probably was the least bellicose President since Hoover. No wonder he left office reviled and mocked by the conservatives.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 26 July 2018 01:17 (five years ago) link
yeah if Biden won next time liberals could go back to sleep for 4 years, as Dennis Perrin says
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 July 2018 02:24 (five years ago) link
lookit rushomancy pullin' out "traitor" retrospectively! damn, libs be on the firing range now.
(spare me the Vietnam lesson, chump, i was alive)
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 July 2018 02:26 (five years ago) link
What, does Perrin slip you a ten spot every time you invoke his name or something? Maybe he'll do you a solid and say something worth repeating one day.
― Things To Do For Dinner When You're Dad (Old Lunch), Thursday, 26 July 2018 02:29 (five years ago) link
(luv u, boo)
“Carter was the least violent of American presidents but he did things which I think would certainly fall under Nuremberg provisions,” said Noam Chomsky.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/18/jimmy-carters-blood-drenched-legacy/
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 July 2018 02:29 (five years ago) link
you can measure every true leftist by how fast they rush to point out that jimmy carter was Just As Bad As Every Other President (see, they've got this noam chomsky interview where he says so!)
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 26 July 2018 04:19 (five years ago) link
and you can measure stooges by their handwaving of imperial support for slaughter
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 July 2018 11:09 (five years ago) link
(I know you didn't read the article, J.D., as it's not a Chomsky interview and because you're you, but it also lists a Bunch of Good Things That Jimmy Carter Did)
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 July 2018 11:25 (five years ago) link
dude could totally rock a cardigan I hear
― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 26 July 2018 12:19 (five years ago) link
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius)
it wasn't known at the time, but his backchannel machinations aimed at sabotaging lbj's peace talks with north vietnam in '68 qualify as that in my book.
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Thursday, 26 July 2018 13:49 (five years ago) link
i've read the article before, i'm pointing out that citing chomsky as if he's some grand old historian of american history (instead of an important linguist whose offhand cranky opinions about politics invariably inform his historical pronouncements, such as the idea that the cuban missile crisis was all our fault, the cold war was all our fault, the war in the pacific was all our fault -- gee, notice a pattern here?) is a bad idea.
funny to see online leftists get so upset about the word "traitor." are we still allowed to call robert e lee a traitor? maybe not on counterpunch, where half the articles seem to come from right-wing libertarians.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 26 July 2018 17:46 (five years ago) link
previous articles by matt peppe, expert on the carter administration:
Media Promote Baseless Assertions By Government Officials Of Russian Interference As Facts
The New York Times’s Biased Obituary of Fidel Castro
Media More Outraged by Possible Murder by Putin Than Definite Murder by Obama
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 26 July 2018 17:47 (five years ago) link
what are his errors about Carter's presidency? don't answer.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:17 (five years ago) link