No Irish, No Yanks, No Clogs - FIFA World Cup 2018

theres no way but to commit in toto from ground up, at least this way theres results and no rooney and all that comes with that cunt of personality

and before Rooney, Gerrard, back thru your Robsons and Keegans, long lineage of prima donnas who didn't deserve to be anywhere near prima.

Ramsey dropping Greaves still an iconic moment that dickheads failed to learn a lesson from, and Greaves was ten times the player any if the wastemen I listed were, far as I can tell.

There is an optimum point between baller flair and team organization but it's rare and hard to reach and forced to choose one or the other I:d always go with the latter. This goes double when you look back and grimace at what's passed for a baller in England history

Bryan Robson heroically self sacrificing by getting injured early on in two world cups tho

Yeah, '86 crash out his greatest contribution to his country. Unless we count the untold hilarity of his management career.

meanwhile:

It's in the bag, lads! 🏴⚽️🎉#ENGCRO pic.twitter.com/G7aG6dOTln

— McCain UK (@McCainUK) July 11, 2018

If that's got Ricky Tomlinson's voice on it you may have found the source of all dark matter in this universe

STRAIGHT

Also WTF with the black flag?

i believe there's a well known emoji glitch which transforms the st george into the anarchist international

Bit too much like the Croatia first/away strip dynamic for me. Hang 'em high.

chomsky's comin' noam

surely this McKane has an Irish granny?

Chumpsky another "toil before flair" exemplar

cosine all nv points

still

have to be enjoying it folks? an england wcsf was never expected in as likeable a fashion in yer lifetimes?

Kane's father is for Galway

*from

(but presumably also "for")

I just enjoy World Cups anyway, dunno if a likeable England performing well stirs me much - I like seeing other people enjoying it and bonding over it if they're not cocks. Games I've watched in my local have been fun days. See how tonight turns out like.

not sure if this was discussed upthread but when contemplating the state of african football, this seems v important https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44736780

🗣 Thibaut Courtois: "I'd have preferred to lose to Brazil in the quarter finals, at least that was a team that wanted to play football. France are just an anti-football team".

🗣 Eden Hazard: "I prefer to lose with this Belgium than win with that France".

🔥 Shots Fired. pic.twitter.com/3dHtKhReG3

— SPORF (@Sporf) July 11, 2018

Ah, can't tell the difference between attacking on the counter and Scandiball, shame.

Worth pointing out that England have mostly faced teams who have opted to either kick them or try to strangle the life out of them. This is fairly self-evidently a sign that the oppositon thinks they're an attacking threat, but I'm not sure how this team will respond to a team really going at them. I'm not sure that would be a great tactic for Croatia b/c they'd be wide open defensively and England can capitalise on that. But I can't envisage many scenarios in which they don't lose to France.

Don't think France will necessarily go after them either tho, why would Deschamps change?

Payling for my lunch today, I see that someone (presumably a shop-based changegiver) has trolled me by giving me a 20 lipa coin from the Republika Hrvatska. I'm not sure whether this is a good or bad omen.

England have a lot of pace and can press but I don't think they're remotely capable of dealing with Mbappe if he's on his game.

By which I mean France will be quite happy to soak up England pressure but they don't look like they can cope with a really devastating counter.

By definition teams can't cope with a really devastating counter.

Then again if what you mean is that England's pushed-up fullbacks leave them susceptible to a counter-attack and France's personnel mean those counter-=attacks have a higher-than average chance of being effective (therefore devastating) then I'd agree.

*If* England win tonight it's nigh on impossible to see them beating France (in open play). But tonight's game could be a v interesting tussle of styles. Hope Croatia bring it, tbh.

southgate doesn't look like he has the necessary contempt to beat this french side, if i had my way england would only leave their half to win corners

have to say this world cup has really opened my eyes up the myriad ways to loathe France

xp Of course France didn't beat Belgium (in open play).

I suppose that, like Eden Hazard, my football sensibilities are so blunted that I too can't really tell the difference between what France did last night and "Scandiball", except in so far as France have better attacking players. But even then I wasn't seeing France being especially clinical or thrilling. I wasn't looking very hard at the first twenty minutes, I was setting some type.

The early part of the game was mostly Belgium but France were swarming all over them by the end. They're both an excellent attacking *and* defensive side, it's not like they're Greece in 2004 or something.

England are winning the World Cup from a 93rd minute Danny Welbeck backheel, his first touch of the game.

Maybe his first touch of the tournament.

It was a total fencing match first half, both teams parrying and thrusting. Second half not so much. Anti-football is when what you might do to score isn't a factor of the tactic.

By open play I meant "in the 120 mins" in this case. France had more than enough exciting attacks last night, that declined from utity once they were in front.

Man U played on the counter for most of Ferguson's tenure and they were still fluid and attacking and full if intent more often than not god forgive me.

xp I'm really surprised you saw that game as France swarming all over Belgium, that's not how I'd characterise it at all. I saw them hit on the counter several times as Belgium pushed forwards. I also saw De Bruyne have a terrible second half (or have his normal game stifled maybe?).

"Anti-football is when what you might do to score isn't a factor of the tactic."

I am not sure I understand what you mean. Is what Sweden did this tournament anti-football?

Pretty even till the French goal then Belgium didn't know what to do and then France rolled around a bit to pass the time.

France have more flair but they are keeping it in check, just doing enough to win. A fantasy isn't being fulfilled, probably to do with the way they lost at euro '16 xxxp

I've been saying France v England since the quarters but I really would love to see Croatia put on a performance tonight.

Yeah in the second half last night France didn't look fluid to me. It looked like they were doing their best to choke the game after they scored (and that's not really something I remember Ferguson's Man United doing). I definitely defer to you lot in understanding football tactics though so (genuinely) I don't suppose I'm right about this.

BTW I have no objection to attritional football, I rather enjoy it, so I'm not making a France good / France bad point.

I might refine my definition to "anti-football is when your route to goal is the least important element of the tactic and is based more on percentages than intent". YES IT'S A LEGITIMATE APPROACH WITHIN THE GAME. I just can't imagine enjoying or " supporting " it or wanting to spend my time watching a game based around it.

I do enjoy defensive football if it's technique based I guess, old school Italian football yes, Mick McCarthy's career no

was talking with friends about the mystery of sterling. i think to this point, altho it hasn't been pretty, his headless chicken surges at opposition defences have been a net positive purely for the chaos caused vs teams who have taken a more organised/defensive approach with england overall having a bit more of the ball and so a few more possessions to spare. whereas from this point on i think consistency/making the most of possessions is going to be much more important, so i reckon it's time for the hook for our boy raheem. really the link up play with kane, or lack of, has been a national tragedy that has deserved punishment that it has so far eluded.

france have been so dreary and repressed generally that it makes mbappe's impertinent moments shine brighter. they struggled to break down australia and denmark and have yet to thrash anyone (although this england defence might offer them some hope there) so I wouldn't say their attack is excellent. deschamps has them on such a tight leash they look like they're worried about having to go to macron's office to apologise if they play too much football

mertens is a headless chicken, sterling just goes on runs

Pacey attackers dropping very deep and running with it has been a feature of this World Cup - Sterling, Lukaku and Mbappe have all done that, like the ideal of what late doors Rooney was supposed to be but actually good.

With England it's especially important because they don't have a midfielder capable of consistently making the kinds of passes from deep that release attacking players or unlock defences. Suspect that's why Southgate has consistently gone for Lingard, Sterling and Alli altogether.

ferguson utd played attacking football until jose arrived and took over at chelsea, and played counterattacking thereafter, some of it fluid and with intent and a lot of it not

AOC and Lallana wouldve presumably made a big difference to the first xi setup

just not sure theyd be in the semis with em