and full of septic pus obv
― calzino, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:25 (five years ago) link
at some point we shd take this to Real England or somewhere i guess, but just football-wise i feel like the gap between the belief in the England team's ability and its actually ability must be one of the greatest in any nation
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:26 (five years ago) link
Also, like the mystery of David Baddiel, enduring.
― Alan Alba (Tom D.), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:27 (five years ago) link
for all of worrying about further english success, I can only recommend and echo the sentiments of this chorus (obviously you'll have to mentally substitute "england" for an identifier of your choice)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ODp1WXI-g
― ogmor, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:27 (five years ago) link
to puncture this english nationalist nonsense we can only partake in the very unenglish activity of mercilessly tearing down the individuals who fail to live up the hype
― ogmor, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:29 (five years ago) link
"This Time We'll Get It Right" came on in the pub the other week and it felt like a nostalgic rush of self-acknowledged crapness
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:30 (five years ago) link
played a gig last night straight after the football, we don't have any cheerful songs. didn't go down awfully well.
― thomasintrouble, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:42 (five years ago) link
we will all suffer the nastiest, ugliest, nationalist side of England if they win the WC
interested in what precisely you have in mind here
― Pardew to Megson: "you've stolen my New Orleans bounce" (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:48 (five years ago) link
people chucking themselves in the fountains in Trafalgar Square won't be pretty, it's true
― Neil S, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:56 (five years ago) link
and Baddiel appearing on This Morning will be grisly and sick-making stuff.
― calzino, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:58 (five years ago) link
harry macguire's face on all the stamps
― I'd Rather Kecak (NickB), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:59 (five years ago) link
Every single office in the country has a miserable fucking killjoy Eeyore England 'fan' and maybe a few people should ask themselves if they really want to be that guy. Like if you can't enjoy this moment then what are you here for in the first place? England are still in the World Cup and a lot of apparently superior teams aren't. Save the realism and kicking round the mishapen Jabulani for later*.
It's a team built on chance. There are quality players but I find the heavy reliance on individual talent - as opposed to having an actual team strategy - boring and not very interesting to look at. Not at a WC at least.
This could describe a sizeable chunk of the pre-tournament favourites fwiw, most of whom are no longer there.
*Strikes me than when Corbyn nationalises the FA and the Premiership the entire focus should be on training and developing incisive English playmakers. England produce good-to-great strikers, runners, sometimes a CB and quite often some very good fullbacks. In the past 25 years they've produced precisely one player capable of playing the really decisive, instinctively incisive pass against teams that defend deep, and they treated him like a shitty utility player on the left because England managers are idiots.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:00 (five years ago) link
This is the first England team with an actual system in maybe five or six tournaments. It's probably not one that will work against top class opposition or teams that defend incredibly deep but it's an improvement on what we've had under the last few managers.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:03 (five years ago) link
Watching the game last night England looked like a well organised team who knew what they were meant to be doing and carrying it out effectively. Maybe not exciting but a great platform to work from.
― michaellambert, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:09 (five years ago) link
xp Yeah I think the accusation of England being systemless is a bit off; boring is mostly right though, if you don't care about the result.
Are English commentators worse in terms of gross bias or saying stupid nonsense than the commentators of other countries? I mean, I only have direct experience of US commentators (and even then only a game or two and years ago) but my impression was they were as bad. Oh and there was that Norwegian fellow about fifty years ago.
― Tim, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:12 (five years ago) link
still puzzled as to why jamie vardy didn't take a penalty. he's leicester's regular penalty taker isn't he? unlike henderson, trippier, dier, rashford...
― I'd Rather Kecak (NickB), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:14 (five years ago) link
One thing England did look good at last night was being able to get back in numbers very quickly indeed, which made it harder for Colombia to get through on the break. They would probably have won in the 90 if they hadn't commmitted the utterly basic error of putting their shortest player on the post at setpieces.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:16 (five years ago) link
I see you with that edit button, Matt, ruining my zing about what Trippier said in the bench-match interview.
― Tim, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:19 (five years ago) link
I don't get why Southgate has twice brought Vardy on then not had him play on the shoulder of the last defender, Vardy-style, but instead have him play a roving striker role more suited to either Welbeck or Rashford IMO.
― Tim, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:21 (five years ago) link
shorter defender on the back post makes sense to me, you're going to want your bigger players challenging for the initial ball
― I'd Rather Kecak (NickB), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:22 (five years ago) link
xp (Matt DC)
Noticed that too, whenever Columbia deigned to put the ball into the final third England had it well covered.
― michaellambert, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:34 (five years ago) link
Also, I’m sure it’ll already have been said but winning that game on penalties has probably done a lot more for their confidence and belief than if they’d seen it out in the 90..
― michaellambert, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:36 (five years ago) link
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/england-vs-colombia-penalty-shootout-video-watch-tactics-gareth-southgate-a8430156.html
This is an interesting article, in particular identifying Dier's spell as defensive midfielder as the part when England were shakiest.
― Tim, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:38 (five years ago) link
is it fair to see that if james had been fit, we'd have seen a far different game from colombia? think that was a huge stroke of good fortune for england
― I'd Rather Kecak (NickB), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:38 (five years ago) link
seesay
― I'd Rather Kecak (NickB), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:39 (five years ago) link
I was wondering about Vardy pen pass up too. Not a good sign. Maybe he took a knock. Maybe Pickford should start taking some.
― shaqiri tip (nashwan), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:46 (five years ago) link
in depth discussion of England penalty strategy = sorry for being the Grinch, i'll accept i'm under-rating them and shut up
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:48 (five years ago) link
Doesn't play for Spurs so wasn't worth the risk
(plus has a groin injury apparently)
― groovypanda, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:48 (five years ago) link
In the past 25 years they've produced precisely one player capable of playing the really decisive, instinctively incisive pass against teams that defend deep, and they treated him like a shitty utility player on the left because England managers are idiots.
Can we poll who this might be referring to? I'm unsure tbunfairttl
― shaqiri tip (nashwan), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:51 (five years ago) link
Scholes, innit?
― The shard-borne beetle with his drowsy hums (Chinaski), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:53 (five years ago) link
Scholes?
― groovypanda, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:54 (five years ago) link
― Fox News' Chad Pergram contributed to this report (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:55 (five years ago) link
England still seem vapid in the middle to me, but it's a different kind of vapidity than we've had in the last 20 years or so - less melancholy and entitled, more workmanlike and unfussy. Neither makes for good football, particularly, but there isn't that heavy sense of loss that's hung around for what seems like ever.
― The shard-borne beetle with his drowsy hums (Chinaski), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:56 (five years ago) link
ach even if it was just broadcasting to Engish people i can get behind home team bias but the tone of English bias is riddled with natural order of things greatest nation in the world why isn't this obvious to everybody else bullshit that i can't believe is played out exactly the same everywhere
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:57 (five years ago) link
and WE ARE THE KEEPERS OF CORINTHIAN HONESTY SEE HOW THESE FOREIGNERS CHEAT AND REFUSE TO BE REAL MEN which is ah god sorry yay they're in the quarter finals let's hope we can keep winning on pens
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:58 (five years ago) link
an audience which also includes scotland, wales and norn iron
Who love-to-hate watch England games mostly so they can complain about the inevitable bias. Unless maybe they too support England in these situations which apparently can be a thing too. Always funny to go thru this at every tournament tho - dreaming of the day the non-English Brits can praise the English commentators and pundits for exemplary even-handedness. Independence for every fragment of this embittered isle tho imho.
― shaqiri tip (nashwan), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:00 (five years ago) link
yeah if they didn't secretly enjoy it they'd watch their own coverage oh wait
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:02 (five years ago) link
ach even if it was just broadcasting to Engish people i can get behind home team bias but the tone of English bias is riddled with natural order of things greatest nation in the world why isn't this obvious to everybody else bullshit that i can't believe is played out exactly the same everywhere― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:57 (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:57 (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I could believe that the English are worse than everyone else but I'm not sure about that, I mean it's not commentators but I have a clear memory of a Brazilian headline years ago that was "Brazil will win because God is Brazilian". Doesn't everywhere have its own pathology of (roughly) this kind? Not saying it makes it right, and more than happy to accept that it's particularly unpalatable for England (actually probably any bit of Great Britain) given our history, but I can't believe that's unique.
― Tim, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:07 (five years ago) link
Apols for garble.
― Tim, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:09 (five years ago) link
glad england won. but i did have the link to the youtube pizza hut advert from 1996 in my paste buffer, just in case.
― koogs, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:10 (five years ago) link
I'm saying most places play this kind of thing out in their own way. Football commentators are very often excessive in their opinions and expression; I am not convinced English ones are uniquely offensive.
― Tim, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:11 (five years ago) link
i get it. i'm not convinced they're *not* the most offensive but i'm theoretically English and also in a sour mood and i'm amplifying the sourness thru too much dwelling on a very limited set of idiots.
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:13 (five years ago) link
I'm Welsh and happy to support England in this.
Also not upset by former English players using "we" when co-commentating, unlike lots of chippy twats around here.
― groovypanda, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:14 (five years ago) link
watching (bits of) far-left ENG twitter shouting "down with the england it is imperialist, tonight i support belgium!" has been an education
― mark s, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:14 (five years ago) link
remember the Congo
― Neil S, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:15 (five years ago) link
yeah it's a terrible arena to play performative politics, my distaste is mainly aesthetic in a "you're making it hard to watch the football without shouting at the TV" way
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:15 (five years ago) link
but i have a kneejerk assumption that as soon as somebody piles in with "this is corrupt and terrible and what about the children" they're probably not really into football which is fine but y'know
― Neymar, Mr Nice Guy (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:17 (five years ago) link
I'm pretty sure that Italian football coverage is as bad as England's in this regard.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:20 (five years ago) link
Almost all of the coverage this time has been based around the relative 'easiness' of England's route rather than a distorted perception of the team's quality. From distance it may not look any different though. 50/50 on whether they create more against Sweden or just revert to type.
― shaqiri tip (nashwan), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:26 (five years ago) link