Willie McGee is part of the 2018 St Louis Cardinals

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i was just listening to the podcast (my first and last time listening to it, it's awful) where that discussion took place earlier this morning. goes without saying, but no one would be commenting on his "effort" if he wasn't playing way below replacement player-value.

did people in chicago give him a hard time about his style of catching easy fly balls, glove at about chest level? cardinals broadcasters seemed to be obsessed about it for a very long time - clearly they hated it but didn't want to seem like complete squares.

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 3 July 2018 16:54 (five years ago) link

i don't really pay much attention to local sports media, so i don't know, but he also played well while he was here, so i doubt it

na (NA), Tuesday, 3 July 2018 16:58 (five years ago) link

Dexter Fowler was also kind of a symbolic hero for the Cubs' 2016 WS run, when he had his surprise return in spring training after turning down the Orioles i think it was kind of a weirdly key moment of confidence building.

omar little, Tuesday, 3 July 2018 17:41 (five years ago) link

Top of the 5th. @Tsunamy27 doing his best #Wolverine ?? @Cardinals at @SFGiants (I won’t leave my heart @Yankees ... it was just a one nighter) pic.twitter.com/TGobRbC0S2

— Hugh Jackman (@RealHughJackman) July 6, 2018

Karl Malone, Saturday, 7 July 2018 03:58 (five years ago) link

go back to straya

mookieproof, Saturday, 7 July 2018 04:03 (five years ago) link

surprise: bud norris is an asshole and mike matheny is a dumbass

Thirty-two​ years​ ago, when​ pitcher Chuck Finley got called​ up​ to​ the​ California Angels​ directly from​ the​ Single-A California League,​ one​​ of the first people he ran into in the clubhouse was Reggie Jackson, who was 19 years into what would prove to be a Hall of Fame career.

The celebrity slugger asked Finley what kind of year he was having at Triple-A. Finley swallowed hard, afraid to tell him he had never even touched Double-A. He just kind of stuck his left thumb in the air.

“I kept my mouth shut,” Finley said. “That may have been the smartest thing I ever did. If I had told him, he would have looked around and been like, ‘Are we even fucking trying?’ “

The game has changed since the years when rookies were afraid to open their mouths for fear of retribution from grumpy veterans and that is a good thing by most accounts, but vestiges of the old school remain. The relationship between the two best relievers on the St. Louis Cardinals is defined by one stubborn adherent of said old ways: closer Bud Norris.

The 33-year-old Norris has been mercilessly riding 21-year old rookie Jordan Hicks since spring training, reminding him to be at meetings on time and publicly calling him out when he is lagging in any of the details a visitor might not notice, but other players do. Perhaps Hicks will one day appreciate the treatment?

“Probably not,” Cardinals manager Mike Matheny admitted with a chuckle. “But Bud’s going to do continue to do what he thinks is right as a veteran, so you respect that.”

Matheny said he has had conversations with Hicks to remind him that Norris’ badgering is a way to show he is invested in his success. Matheny sees Norris’ actions as an effort to carry on the dying tradition of teaching younger players in the harshest possible ways. Matheny himself faced that on the Milwaukee Brewers when he broke in as a young catcher 24 years ago.

“I think the game has progressively gotten a little softer,” Matheny said. “Man, it had some teeth not that long ago.”

Hicks, the hardest throwing right-handed pitcher in baseball, isn’t a fan of the treatment. Asked if he thinks it will one day pay dividends in his career, he said, “I have no idea. No comment.”

The roots of Norris’ saltiness, if you want to call it that, lay in the soil of his early years with the Houston Astros, when he was asked to take on a leadership position before he was ready. Norris was the closest thing the Astros — in their tanking phase — had to a veteran since he had reached arbitration, but he was struggling to establish himself. Most of his teammates were either being traded away or shuttled back and forth between Triple-A and the big leagues. Norris called it a “swamp.”

Before that mid-career phase, Norris was the young victim of veterans’ pranks. Astros teammates once drove his 14-year-old Acura out onto the warning track before a game and advertised it for sale using shaving cream. They were trying to send him a message that big-league players drive fancier cars.

Two years later, most of those veterans were gone and Norris was supposed to patrol the room.

“Everyone was looking to me to be the leader and I wasn’t ready for that,” he said. “I didn’t need the extra stuff on my plate. I really just should have been learning my craft and it definitely set me back mentally. It wasn’t a positive environment. Losing that many games for that many years makes it a pretty negative environment. I didn’t enjoy going to the ballpark most days and it messed up my personal life.”

Six teams later, Norris is thriving as the Cardinals closer. He has a 2.87 ERA, a 0.929 WHIP and 2.55 FIP. And Hicks, who has thrown a fastball at 105 mph, has been his ace setup guy, pitching to a 2.56 ERA, a 1.073 WHIP and 3.55 FIP.

The odd couple dynamic between the two pitchers isn’t an accident. Norris said he decided early on he wasn’t going to allow Hicks to let loose work habits affect his readiness to perform. Hick was originally optioned back to minor-league camp this spring for being late repeatedly, but the team couldn’t resist the allure of his electric right arm. The Cardinals relented going into Opening Day and he has been on the roster all season.

Like Finley several generations earlier, Hicks never pitched at the final two rungs on the minor-league chain. He was in Class A baseball last season.

“He’s learning,” Norris said. “He’s admitting when he’s wrong and he’s admitting when he’s right. We’re working together, but he still has a lot to learn on the pitching side, on the professional side of things, how to hold himself accountable for some things and just being a pro, coming to work every day and being ready to work, doing the little things, because they add up in the long run.”

Question Norris’ methods with Hicks if you like, but you can’t deny him his experiences. The game has a way of kicking you around if you stick in it long enough and Norris remembers each of the slights. The most recent came last season, when – he says – the Los Angeles Angels switched him from the bullpen to the starting rotation just before an incentive for relief appearances kicked in to sweeten the one-year, $1.75 million contract he signed there.

“It is what it is, you know?” Norris said.

Though Hicks it the most frequent target of Norris’ attention, he isn’t the only reliever who has sometimes prompted him to speak up. Matheny said he invited Norris to take leadership of the bullpen and he has responded by giving him occasional reports of pitchers not living up to the standards the team set in spring training. At times, Matheny said, he has levied team fines after Norris’ reports.

“I get regular updates,” Matheny said. “But that’s good. I invited him into that. We need leadership with each sub-culture of the team, including the bullpen, and he’s keeping an eye. He’s a stickler for what we established early on.”

The Cardinals’ unofficial keeper of the old school might not be the most popular player among his peers at all times. That doesn’t mean he’s going to change any time soon. The on-field results dictate whether something is working or not and, right now, the Cardinals’ two-man relief tandem is getting it done, no matter how squeamish it can get behind the scenes.

mookieproof, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 21:45 (five years ago) link

“It is what it is, you know?” Norris said.

flagposted your post just because of this

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 21:52 (five years ago) link

Though Hicks it the most frequent target of Norris’ attention, he isn’t the only reliever who has sometimes prompted him to speak up. Matheny said he invited Norris to take leadership of the bullpen and he has responded by giving him occasional reports of pitchers not living up to the standards the team set in spring training. At times, Matheny said, he has levied team fines after Norris’ reports.

“I get regular updates,” Matheny said. “But that’s good. I invited him into that. We need leadership with each sub-culture of the team, including the bullpen, and he’s keeping an eye. He’s a stickler for what we established early on.”

cardinals police force, sgt. norris reporting in

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 21:53 (five years ago) link

fuckin' cops

a shomin-geki poster with some horror elements (WilliamC), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 21:59 (five years ago) link

one and the same https://t.co/NLImFrVLql

— keithlaw (@keithlaw) July 12, 2018

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 July 2018 00:21 (five years ago) link

man, what the fuck happened to tommy pham, he just fell off a cliff in mid-may. actually, i guess he had a weird 13-game hitting streak in early june, but other than that it's been bleak

Karl Malone, Saturday, 14 July 2018 01:02 (five years ago) link

Feel like he's on the wrong side of 30 for a breakout season to materialize.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 14 July 2018 01:57 (five years ago) link

The curse of Ryan Ludwick

omar little, Saturday, 14 July 2018 03:25 (five years ago) link

#STLCards announce that they have fired Mike Matheny.

— Jenifer Langosch (@LangoschMLB) July 15, 2018

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Sunday, 15 July 2018 03:20 (five years ago) link

damn, now Bud won’t make it out of the next road trip alive.

omar little, Sunday, 15 July 2018 03:32 (five years ago) link

it finally happened

Karl Malone, Sunday, 15 July 2018 03:45 (five years ago) link

i'm going to miss the Karl's disses.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 15 July 2018 03:48 (five years ago) link

hey, maybe another team will hire him!

*crickets*

Karl Malone, Sunday, 15 July 2018 04:00 (five years ago) link

I wouldn’t put it pass the Orioles.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 15 July 2018 04:03 (five years ago) link

HAHAHAHA! As a Reds fan, it's hilarious that this game tonight was the straw that broke the back. I think Matheny is still trying to change pitchers.

earlnash, Sunday, 15 July 2018 04:03 (five years ago) link

Amazing! Love that his old school bullshit sealed it. What a dunce.

bnw, Sunday, 15 July 2018 04:04 (five years ago) link

In years to come, they will discuss a cold feeling that happens in the door way to the bullpen from time to time in games.

earlnash, Sunday, 15 July 2018 04:07 (five years ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7PmE9-W4AEl1qz.jpg:small

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 July 2018 04:42 (five years ago) link

bernie miklasz on twitter:

"The lethargic and messy baseball aside, and crumbling player relations aside, I can share this: management was not happy with Matheny’s quotes in @markasaxon piece in @TheAthletic (1/2)"

"As I wrote for @TheAthleticSTL Friday, management uncomfortable with Matheny’s expressed zeal for old-school tough guy stuff and referring to today’s game as "soft" … felt (2/3)"

"That (3/3) whenever Matheny gets on the soapbox with old-school preaching that’s a huge turnoff to young players, it reinforced team’s rep as uptight, stressed, humorless and not a fun place to play."

"That’s why I was astonished by the attacks on @markasaxon ; without Matheny running his mouth and all but bragging over having Bud Norris being his enforcer/snitch, Saxon had much less to build his piece around. Today’s players are different. This manager never got that."

"If you go back and read the reporting on why Joe Girardi was sacked by the Yankees, you wouldn’t be so quick to assume he’s the right guy in STL. The ability to communicate-connect with young players, and all kinds of players, will be a priority in choosing next STL manager"

Karl Malone, Sunday, 15 July 2018 05:15 (five years ago) link

Also very good - got me to download the app —
Miklasz: In the end, Mike Matheny simply never delivered on the promises that led to his hiring in the first place https://theathletic.com/432508/2018/07/15/miklasz-in-the-end-mike-matheny-simply-never-delivered-on-the-promises-that-led-to-his-hiring-in-the-first-place/

bnw, Sunday, 15 July 2018 15:52 (five years ago) link

congratulations Cardinal fans

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 15 July 2018 16:07 (five years ago) link

the only drawback to all of this is that the cardinals failed to call up triple-a manager STUBBY CLAPP

mookieproof, Sunday, 15 July 2018 18:02 (five years ago) link

He’s a manager now???!!!!

Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 15 July 2018 21:53 (five years ago) link

The Cardinals’ players are now “on notice” after the team fired manager Mike Matheny on Saturday, Mark Saxon of The Athletic tweets. If the Cardinals (47-46) don’t turn things around during the coming weeks under interim manager Mike Shildt, there may be “sweeping changes” to their roster, per Saxon. St. Louis’ front office, for its part, “has pined for years to be a seller and stock up for the future,” Saxon writes.

the front office is dad now, and dad is mad

Karl Malone, Sunday, 15 July 2018 22:00 (five years ago) link

if the 2018 season is going to amount to anything, we'll find out in the next 2 weeks. a 5-game series against the cubs, 3 against the reds, another 3 against the cubs, then the trade deadline. i'd think they'd have to win at least 6 of 8 against the cubs in order to have a fighting chance this season, and they haven't exactly stepped it up against quality opponents the last three years this season

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 18 July 2018 17:41 (five years ago) link

nice little game from carp

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Friday, 20 July 2018 21:15 (five years ago) link

He has been on fire for a really long time

Karl Malone, Friday, 20 July 2018 21:28 (five years ago) link

Bit of a gap but 6 HRs in his last 4 games.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 20 July 2018 21:35 (five years ago) link

16 total bases today

Karl Malone, Friday, 20 July 2018 21:51 (five years ago) link

brett cecil getting a pep talk mound visit in a 16-2 game lol

J0rdan S., Friday, 20 July 2018 21:56 (five years ago) link

carpenter in 56 games since 5/16:

.346/.435/.738, 20 HR, 24 2B, 33 BB, 38 RBI, 50 R

only mookie is within 80 points of his 1.174 OPS. only 12 players are within 200 points of it

mookieproof, Friday, 20 July 2018 23:09 (five years ago) link

yadier molina is the slowest person who has ever moved

Karl Malone, Saturday, 21 July 2018 17:56 (five years ago) link

Ozuna just checked his swing and the ump signaled he’d been hit by the pitch on his arm, Ozuna waved him off and said it was the bat, then grounded into a double play.

omar little, Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:59 (five years ago) link

twice in this series the cardinals' manager has intentionally walked rizzo to get to bryant. one of those times there was only one out.

na (NA), Sunday, 22 July 2018 20:11 (five years ago) link

at least it's better than rock paper scissors

pic.twitter.com/ff9kJcoaCa

— 📼 (@VanHicklestein) July 22, 2018

Karl Malone, Monday, 23 July 2018 17:14 (five years ago) link

damn, now Bud won’t make it out of the next road trip alive.

― omar little, Saturday, July 14, 2018 11:32 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Andy K, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:17 (five years ago) link

honestly (and i felt this way the last 2 seasons especially) i would rather see them go down in flames a little earlier this year and be sellers at the trade deadline rather than hanging on all year only to end up a few games out by the end. i don't blame bud norris for where they are this season since he's been really good all year. i blame greg holland. i hate his face and he sucks

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 02:23 (five years ago) link

shit face holland dfa'd, man with a good name dakota hudson will take his roster spot

Karl Malone, Friday, 27 July 2018 16:41 (five years ago) link

As Cras references here, the tension never really abated between Tommy and the front office. Recently he asked for an expensive piece of exercise equipment and became unhappy when the team didn’t provide it. Many small clashes, I’m told by source. TB has been on him a long time. https://t.co/L9FiZ49Rt7

— Mark Saxon (@markasaxon) July 31, 2018

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 July 2018 15:59 (five years ago) link

i'm gonna miss watching tommy pham.

it sure has been a tough year for st louis. 3 years without playoffs! can anyone else possibly understand what that feels like to have to watch?!

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 31 July 2018 16:05 (five years ago) link

guessing pham's pissed that he won't get to play against the cardinals -- he seems like the kind of guy who still burns with hatred for the JV baseball coach who once moved him down in the order

mookieproof, Tuesday, 31 July 2018 16:07 (five years ago) link

yeah, he definitely plays with a chip on his shoulder. for the most part that's worked well!

pham is hard to project, i think. but there's a decent chance this goes down as a criminally terrible trade for the cardinals

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 31 July 2018 16:13 (five years ago) link

impostor

Lance Lynn kept the pinstripes, lost the beard ... pic.twitter.com/hjvggSTbYQ

— Ryan Fagan (@ryanfagan) August 1, 2018

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 22:10 (five years ago) link

from the EW FB group:

Al Hrabosky, on the Cardinals broadcast. "I don't believe in launch angle... Launch angle means fly outs to me". As the words were leaving his mouth, Matt Carpenter hits another home run. Never change, Al.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 6 August 2018 19:34 (five years ago) link

He is one of the dumbest men in professional sports

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 7 August 2018 00:10 (five years ago) link


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