US Politics, June 2018: This is a total goat rodeo.

Here in San Francisco -- and apparently across the bay in Alameda as well -- today's march was notably light on millenials. I wonder if this was broadly true.

Didn't check IDs, but lots of young people here.

It was a good march, good to be around so many like-minded people, even if it was fucking hot. Got a sandwich at a Vietnamese place after. The woman saw my shirt and asked if I was marching. We talked a bit and she told me she came here as a refugee in 1976 (I think) because it was the greatest country in the world. Then she told me she was sponsoring the asylum claims of two people, one from Cuba, the other from Venezuela, and that it's hard work and time consuming but still worth fighting for. She thanked me for my support, and I've got to admit, it felt good.

At the Baltimore rally, I feel like the median age was hovering somewhere between 35-40.

lotta young folks in Eugene OR but yeah the median was probably closer to what Raymond saw, tons of pissed of elders with signs

felt a tiny bit younger than that here. Maybe somewhere 25 to 35? 25-45?

https://splinternews.com/at-families-belong-together-marches-this-is-what-dem-1827262000

It was fucking fantastic. Hot as heck, but the vibe was positive, lots of socializing and commiserating and hope.

Shout out to chill Antifa crew hoisting a huge banner and supplying free bottled water in an ice chest

Went to the Queens March but was late due to baby nap. Hit it at the end where a small crowd was gathered in a park in Corona. Got to hear Ocasio-Cortez speak so at least I’ll be able to tell that to my grandchildren.

WASHINGTON — U.S. intelligence agencies believe that North Korea has increased its production of fuel for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months — and that Kim Jong Un may try to hide those facilities as he seeks more concessions in nuclear talks with the Trump administration, U.S. officials told NBC News.

The intelligence assessment, which has not previously been reported, seems to counter the sentiments expressed by President Donald Trump, who tweeted after his historic June 12 summit with Kim that "there was no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea."

this is unsurprising and still foreboding

jesus

Enh

Color me skeptical when it comes to US intelligence services and reporting on other countries' movements

It’s in line with what pretty much every NK and arms proliferation expert predicted.

What a nutter. 1) Open-source information corroborates IC claims. 2) In 2017, the IC repeatedly leaked administration plans to launch preventive strikes on NK in order to prevent them--hardly a "war-hawk bureaucracy" move. 3) NK has not agreed to give up nukes https://t.co/tlKqyQJE2O

— Van Jackson (@WonkVJ) June 30, 2018

The claims the intel community is making are reasonable, predictable--because the Kim summit was a rhetorical show, not a deal for denuclearization, and because North Korea has no theory of security without nukes. Of course North Korea's going do what it can to retain nukes

— Van Jackson (@WonkVJ) June 30, 2018

Beware the claims of anyone who spends their time trying to discredit the work of Trump's enemies--you know, mainstream journalism and public servants

— Van Jackson (@WonkVJ) June 30, 2018

Simon, there's a fundamental difference compared to Iraq in that it goes against what the government is saying. Pet peeve but blaming the WMD lies on intelligence really lets Rumsfeld and Cheney etc off the hook.

Also, fuck Glenn Greenwald.

Still I’m in the weird place of rooting for Trump to just ignore it (and John Bolton and Lindsey Graham) completely instead of lashing out and acting betrayed.

yeah, otm

1 in 120 is displaced or asylum seeking. Christ

Color me skeptical when it comes to US intelligence services and reporting on other countries' movements

― Simon H., Sunday, July 1, 2018 2:25 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I mean I understand being skeptical but if there's any party for whom you should reserve even more skepticism than US intelligence services it's fucking North Korea

Whether it’s correct or not is almost immaterial. DPRK is under no obligation to stop its nuclear programme, aiui, just as the US is under no obligation to delay the opening of the $11bn base in Pyeongtaek or lift sanctions. The agreement reached, as far as I know, was for DPRK to halt test fires and the US to step back from military exercises deemed ‘provocative’ in the short term - with a pact to negotiate further de-escalation. That negotiation is likely to cover things like stopping work on some elements of the nuclear programme and declaring / opening up sites to international inspection in return for sanctions relief and other stuff, but that is all TBC.

Leaving Greenwald aside, the criticism I’ve seen of the leak / framing of the report from people like Tim Shorrock is the suspicion it has been put out there to make the second phase of discussion less likely - by framing DPRK as bad actors (which they are) and Trump as a rube (which he is), it is aiming to turn public opinion against the only viable route to an imperfect peace accord.

You've really got it backward if you think whether or not it's correct is immaterial, while free speculation as to the motives of the leaks is the real story.

Neither story is particularly huge - DPRK continues to do what they have always done pending further discussion, some sources who don’t like the proposed negotiations leak stuff to the press. It doesn’t have a gigantic bearing on the discussions either way.

No, you're right. But the story about DPRK continuing to work on their nuclear program is at least a story, since Trump lied about them doing so. And for some reason, there was a discussion in a lot of media I read whether or not he should be credited for that bluster. The intention behind the leaks is unknown, and is not even a story.

good mourning!

we had a bit of confusion in Boston so some of us who intended to be trained for the civil disobedience action at South Bay Detention center ended up at a sign-making meeting instead. So ... it was arts-and-crafts activism for me this time!

The action itself went ok it seems. About twenty arrested ... all released by 3ish this morning. Onwards!

so there was kind of a 'riot' in Portland

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/06/portland_police_revoke_permit.htm

also, eff Frederik

got a 404 on that link?

"riot" = fascists beating protestors with flagpoles

sorry

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/06/portland_police_revoke_permit.html

paintballs filled with pepper spray? That's a new one to me. I admire your creativity, Portland Police.

i know this isn't surprising at this point, but it's still startling to see them side-by-side

He didn’t even bother to delete the old one pic.twitter.com/A47TuOFfNS

— Ryan Lizza (@RyanLizza) June 30, 2018

It’s not though! It’s not remotely startling, covfefe.

Can we make the July thread into less of a mess of dumbfoundedness at the “world burning down?” Duh, of course it is. To the extent our systems allow it to. Also if you talk about trump winning re-election please punch yourself in the genitalia

Where are the 1987 Korea style protests demanding direct popular elections?

wrt anyone using Iraq as a frame of reference for “this is the deep state trying to undermine the president’s peace plan” theories

Brief, remedial class on the drive to war in Iraq: The invasion was pushed by political appointees in the Bush admin who manipulated raw intelligence, previously discounted by analysts, and created a whole new intelligence office to out-hawk what they viewed as a "liberal" CIA.

— Charles Davis (@charliearchy) July 1, 2018

"The agency, called the Office of Special Plans (OSP), was set up by the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, to second-guess CIA information." https://t.co/HyZgVjygqH

— Charles Davis (@charliearchy) July 1, 2018

Meanwhile, as McClatchy reported in 2002, anonymous "U.S. intelligence officials said evidence actually suggested that Saddam had been careful to keep al Qaida at arms' length to avoid giving Bush an excuse to invade Iraq." https://t.co/kS34X66Lfy

— Charles Davis (@charliearchy) July 1, 2018

But some people believed the White House, seeing the CIA as a den of liberals determined to undermine an elected president's foreign policy.

— Charles Davis (@charliearchy) July 1, 2018

If the IC had been as bad and deceitful as Greenwald/Simon says, that Colin Powell presentation would have been a lot more impressive.

I wasn't trying to make a direct Iraq parallel fwiw - my distrust of / wariness towards US intelligence services is more general.

We can tell. Your aptitude as a generalist is undisputed

Do we have a July thread?

generalists are always pushing for wariness

is there no july thread because no one can decide on a title

“Goodlatte 2: DPRK Nuke-a-Dupe”

US Politics July 2018: Let's Eat Grandma

Among contenders upthread were "womp womp", "We Got Space Force" and "I REALLY DON'T CARE. DO U?" of which the latter is the most nihilistically apposite.

i really don't careforce 1

I'm down with the third option MatthewK presented

Shall I

Option 3 for sure.

marches lighter on millenials are marches heavier on voters, and so a good thing.

The new name has always been a surprise.

Just sayin.

US Politics, July 2018: FART

Surprise!!