Is the American Left Adrift?

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we still haven't dealt with the decline of the nation-state as organizing political category

You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 30 September 2004 13:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, how could we have missed that.

Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 30 September 2004 15:34 (nineteen years ago) link

are you kidding? it's the defining feature of 21st century politics!

You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 30 September 2004 15:40 (nineteen years ago) link

i've been thinking of these things a lot. i've always been political and used to be much more activist, but am growing hazier on actions and absolutes. of course i'm very biased and not as informed as some of you perhaps, but i always thought the ultimate problem with the left is there ultimate goals aren't necessarily of power. if you look at who's powerful or who's rich or who's famous it's often people who put those goals before all else - how they get there is secondary. that's makes them extremely effective and unified. if your primary goals are more humanitary or experiential or philosophical and secondarily to power in order to be effectual, you can never compete.

so the question is do you want to play that game? it gets very dirty very fast. strangely enough i know of a couple who's marriage is in trouble because of one them working for moveon and is getting scarier and scarier the more entrenched in politics she gets. i like to think of tracer's scenario of people just out there doing it on a personal/community level - no matter who's in power (though of course their work gets easier or harder depending on who is). maybe i'm just more focused on being a good person and doing what you can well instead of doing ugly things that might be for the 'greater good'.

you just can't call defeat because your man doesn't make office. there are a million other things that make up your day.

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Thursday, 30 September 2004 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

To respond to the thread title: Yes I had been, but I'm back on course. thx.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 30 September 2004 18:51 (nineteen years ago) link

if your primary goals are more humanitary or experiential or philosophical and secondarily to power in order to be effectual, you can never compete.

This is one of the central conundrums of effective left/liberal politics in America right now. If the underlying principles of left/liberalism include humanism and broad distribution of power, then betraying those principles in order to get into office to support those principles is a morally dubious proposition. I've got this recurring metaphor of a football game, where one team wants to win but within the framework of the game -- with rules, referees, etc. -- and the other team comes out with machine guns and shoots everyone on the field and pays off the refs. If part of the argument we're having is about whether we need the rules and referees, then you can only make the case for it by playing by those rules. But how do you do that when you're playing Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, who think rules are for pussies and chumps?

I don't know. I don't think the Democrats have figured it out yet either.

spittle (spittle), Thursday, 30 September 2004 19:25 (nineteen years ago) link

(oops, that was by me -- this workstation still has my old ID cached, I guess)

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 30 September 2004 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link

ten years pass...
four years pass...

On November 30, 1999, activists shut down the World Trade Organization meetings in Seattle. The protests were a thrilling moment during bleak times for the socialist left. Now, years of resistance are finally paying off. https://t.co/38i77jMzf4 @DougHenwood

— Jacobin (@jacobinmag) November 30, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 1 December 2019 02:07 (four years ago) link

two months pass...

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