Hollow Knight makes me think Metroid cos the rooms themselves are cavelike floating platforms and such. you could plop Samus down and it would work. you even attack the barriers on the sides of screens just like you attack the doors in Metroid.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 16 June 2018 14:53 (five years ago) link
but the combat is more close-quarter, more like SOTN.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 16 June 2018 14:54 (five years ago) link
middle/late Castlevania I guess that’s the key. Symphony of the Night, especially. Early castlevanias didn’t have the backtracking and all of that, though, while they were all present in Metroid from the very beginning.
― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Saturday, 16 June 2018 15:00 (five years ago) link
Yeah I was very disappointed to find Castlevania IV on the SNES mini was fully linear, no exploration/backtracking in there at all.
― JimD, Saturday, 16 June 2018 15:09 (five years ago) link
Anyway my metroidvania recommendation if people are looking for good examples of the form would probably be Shadow Complex.
― JimD, Saturday, 16 June 2018 15:11 (five years ago) link
I've gotta try IV again. I don't think I ever finished it. Playing through the original Castlevania with the ILG thread a few years back was so much fun.
― jmm, Saturday, 16 June 2018 15:15 (five years ago) link
Some of the earlier Castlevanias have multiple alternate routes
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 16 June 2018 15:43 (five years ago) link
Rondo of Blood has alternate paths and secret levels. Bloodlines has areas you can only access with certain abilities. Castlevania 3 has alt paths.
Simon's Quest had lots of backtracking and a full 2D open world with upgradable abilities that unlocked inaccessible areas. before that the original Japanese Castlevania Vampire Killer had backtracking and it came out two months after the first Metroid.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 16 June 2018 15:50 (five years ago) link
Simon's Quest had lots of backtracking and a full 2D open world with upgradable abilities that unlocked inaccessible areas.
obv i defer to you because i know you're a huge fan of those early games, but that's news to me! my old school castlevania go-to is 3. i don't think i ever got far enough in simon's quest to realize it had those elements you were talking about. I should revisit.
― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Saturday, 16 June 2018 15:54 (five years ago) link
Simon's Quest rules! i recommend playing it with a guide as the NPCs are purposefully designed to mislead you in places. once you get past the infamous obscurity it is a really cool game that is ahead of it's time design-wise. also the music is my favorite of the series.
it sort of makes sense that Castlevania would need capacity of a CD to go fully open world though. you can do caverns with minimal tile art compared to a detailed castle where every room sort of has to have a unique look to it and there are all kinds of additional details like chairs, furniture, lamps, etc.
Castlevania has a more dense world. this is one thing i like about Hollow Knight, there is tons of grass, fences, signs, wrought iron posts, etc. architectural detritus of no consequence littering the landscape that you can satisfyingly slice. it is enjoyable even though it provides no real benefit, like rolling in OOT.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 16 June 2018 15:58 (five years ago) link
i mean all this is _true_ as far as that goes, but nobody really used the term "metroidvania" before sotn, did they?
steamworld dig 2 is definitely an improvement on the first game. kind of blows it out of the water, honestly.
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Saturday, 16 June 2018 15:59 (five years ago) link
that's it, i'm using internet search
check out this URL: http://tvtropes.org/g00/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Metroidvania?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8%3D&i10c.ua=1
This sub-genre gets its name from the Metroid and Castlevania series. The Trope Maker was Metroid, published in 1986, and subsequent Metroid games have consistently used it in all of its installments (except Prime Pinball). Castlevania first used the style in 1986's Vampire Killer and 1987's Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, before abandoning it and then returning to it after the success of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, the Trope Codifier. The term itself was originally used for the Castlevania games of the same style as Symphony of the Night, but Jeremy Parish of Retronauts, expanded the definition so that it referred to an entire genre; his use of the term popularized it, and along with it his definition. Ironically, the designer of Symphony of the Night actually modeled that game on the The Legend of Zelda series, which also shares a number of traits with this genre though is often overlooked in discussions due to not being 2D side-scrolling.While Metroid and Castlevania were the Trope Maker and Trope Codifier, respectively, the Ur Examples were Brain Breaker (1984/1985) and Dragon Slayer II: Xanadu (1985). Several early Metroidvania titles were inspired by these titles, particularly Xanadu. Metroidvania elements could be traced further back to non-platformer games Tutankham (1982) and The Portopia Serial Murder Case (1983).
While Metroid and Castlevania were the Trope Maker and Trope Codifier, respectively, the Ur Examples were Brain Breaker (1984/1985) and Dragon Slayer II: Xanadu (1985). Several early Metroidvania titles were inspired by these titles, particularly Xanadu. Metroidvania elements could be traced further back to non-platformer games Tutankham (1982) and The Portopia Serial Murder Case (1983).
― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Saturday, 16 June 2018 16:04 (five years ago) link
interesting tidbit from that:
An interesting note is that the man behind most of the Metroidvania titles had actually never heard of the term until around 2012 (though he quite liked it). He said his inspiration in creating Symphony of the Night actually came from Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (which in turn borrowed elements from Dragon Slayer II: Xanadu and the original Metroid).
― obviously DLC (Karl Malone), Saturday, 16 June 2018 16:14 (five years ago) link
E3 backer demo codes have just been released for Bloodstained
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 28 June 2018 13:50 (five years ago) link
yeah the vania part just refers to symphony of the night and it's successors which were the other high profile game series that used metroid style world design in a side scroller
― ciderpress, Thursday, 28 June 2018 13:59 (five years ago) link
played the new demo for a bit, i like it! very cool that when you change your equipment, it's visually represented in the on-screen character.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 28 June 2018 16:54 (five years ago) link
this game is looking really cool! the cutscenes are a little rough but the design of the levels themselves is very promising. it really feels like HD SOTN level of detail wise. rooms have all kinds of furniture, chairs, lamps, curtains, cabinets, piles of books, candelabras, the necessary gothic garb. i just want to stop and look at the backgrounds, which is what SOTN made me want to do, so that's a good sign.
the 3D graphics really stand out in areas, like outdoor sections where trees and rows of statues scroll in the foreground and background. some cool perspective effects, like an MC Esher style castle, at play here. they did some of this stuff in SOTN w some light use of 3D animation to emphasize a kind of infinity mirror giant castle. so what we have here is proportionally and gameplay wise pretty classic SOTN level design, with plenty of platforms, only really nice.
this feels like a totally different approach than the 2.5D games they have done so far. the Rondo remake was a little dull and blurry. here things really stand out and it works well. its the closest thing to an HD Dawn of Sorrow. also the game is no pushover which is good news, one of SOTN's biggest criticisms. looking forward to this!
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 1 July 2018 01:43 (five years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/RMOvSqol.jpg
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 1 July 2018 01:46 (five years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/yDtiCzyl.jpg
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 1 July 2018 01:47 (five years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/qYsTpLil.jpg
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 1 July 2018 01:48 (five years ago) link
any game where you can sit down is a good game
― devops mom (silby), Sunday, 1 July 2018 02:12 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Q1rXhHL6g
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 21 July 2018 17:47 (five years ago) link
oh god the '90s video edit fx
― Nhex, Sunday, 22 July 2018 08:36 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvmdRTk3B9ANever really heard much about Slain: Back From Hell.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 8 June 2019 17:17 (four years ago) link
And new trailer for Blasphemoushttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srtnPqP9fn8
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 8 June 2019 17:31 (four years ago) link
The initial release of Slain had bad gameplay, then the designer listened to the player response and improved it.
I'm starting Sundered, which has goodly backtracking but it also has enemy waves that have too much chaos for me to use any strategy. I'll stick with it.
Bloodstained this month, OMG. I might buy it at full release price, which I haven't done for any full-priced game since Order of Ecclesia a decade ago.
― adam the (abanana), Saturday, 8 June 2019 17:34 (four years ago) link
Who's playing Bloodstained? I got past the demo portion. Great so far.
― adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 19 June 2019 10:59 (four years ago) link
Bloodstained is going hard into SOTN territory. I thought a character was the game's version of Alucard, but then I found another character and that was DEFINITELY Alucard.
― adam the (abanana), Thursday, 20 June 2019 03:38 (four years ago) link
plan to dive in on Sunday. sounds good
― Nhex, Thursday, 20 June 2019 06:00 (four years ago) link
There are some tricks retained from SOTN that are given away in the loading screens. I think that's a good compromise between being beginner-friendly and being for Castlevania veterans. And there are also at least a few new tricks I've found.
One example: The backdash system is exactly the same as SOTN, where you can cancel a move into a backdash into another move, but you can't backdash a second time. This gets a loading screen hint. In SOTN, repeated dashing was best with a shield equipped to cancel into because they had no recovery time. Now in Bloodstained, I haven't found a shield yet, but you can cancel backdash into duck to achieve the same thing.
― adam the (abanana), Thursday, 20 June 2019 06:30 (four years ago) link
There's one shard that's obviously very powerful -- the books. You can equip two safe rings (def++, att--) and they'll still do good damage because they aren't based on the attack stat. I got through one of the bosses on the first try just by hitting it with the books. Today I switched out them out just because they were getting boring. It seems like a lot of the shard attacks aren't very good, but it'll be fun to experiment with them.
― adam the (abanana), Friday, 21 June 2019 11:22 (four years ago) link
Way back when I backed Bloodstained for the Switch. Got the download yesterday and played a few minutes, but it seemed kind of ... janky. Looked online this morning and I'm not the only one having problems on Switch. :(
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 June 2019 13:38 (four years ago) link
yeah it sounds like the switch version is rough
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 25 June 2019 14:06 (four years ago) link
Just posted on their kickstarter page“We have been listening to the feedback regarding Switch performance. Our goal is for everyone, regardless of platform, to be able to enjoy the game and have it run smoothly. We want to live up to your, and our, expectations.Throughout the QA process we have been addressing performance issues in the game. Update 1.01 was published to Switch prior to launch to add content and improve performance. It did not accomplish as much as we had hoped and we need to do more.To address the concerns brought up by the community we are immediately shifting resources to improve performance and stability for the Switch. You can expect a number of small updates that will improve different areas of the game rather than waiting longer for one big update. We will have more details as we dive into the work.We thank you for your patience and apologize for the inconvenience.Jason “Question” RyanSr Community Manager – 505 Games”
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 June 2019 20:48 (four years ago) link
The PS4 version has crashed 3 times at the crafting screen for me. Not a huge deal but I've got to remember to save before and after crafting.
― adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 26 June 2019 00:21 (four years ago) link
tbf they've only been working on it for four or so years.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 26 June 2019 00:43 (four years ago) link
Anyone played the retro Castlevania collection on switch? Looks fun, but I never played these games as a kid, and wondering if they hold up without the nostalgia value
― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 29 June 2019 11:47 (four years ago) link
Didnt know about this, I'm glad this type of collection is still coming out because I thought digital downloads of single games was wiping them out.
They take a bit of getting used to. I haven't played most of them but Bloodlines is good fun.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 29 June 2019 12:15 (four years ago) link
First game is tougher than I had patience for.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 29 June 2019 12:17 (four years ago) link
just skip straight to III imo. and Bloodlines is nicely getting more recognition
― Nhex, Saturday, 29 June 2019 13:09 (four years ago) link
then again, the music is kinda awesome in all of them, even if they're not as playable (looking at 1 and 2)
First official US release of the Famicom version of the third game, I think? It has better music and Grant is easy mode.
I beat Ritual of the Night. It has all the usual Iga pluses and minuses. I'm not sure if it will stand the test of time as well as SOTN, as it doesn't seem to have as many wonderful small details. But I still hope Iga cranks out sequels reusing all the assets.
― adam the (abanana), Saturday, 29 June 2019 15:56 (four years ago) link
Vigil: Longest Nighthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh9IhIMUwrchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_wGzvD4BN4Is this proof you don't need a specific franchise to keep a very specific game genre alive?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 18 January 2020 19:17 (four years ago) link
people have been making indie SotN's by the dozens for the past 5+ years, they just aren't always as aesthetically close as bloodstained or this
― ciderpress, Saturday, 18 January 2020 19:30 (four years ago) link
Yeah, I've been getting lists of them popping up on youtube but I'm not paying close attention. Ved looks very nice but it didn't have monsters, castles etc. Any good ones not mentioned on this thread?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 18 January 2020 20:30 (four years ago) link
people like hollow knight a lot
timespinner is a decent sci-fi take on one
― ciderpress, Saturday, 18 January 2020 21:18 (four years ago) link
The phone version of SOTN is $3 and I hear it's good.
Order of Ecclesia is now going for like $100. wtf konami, print more games.
― wasdnous (abanana), Tuesday, 28 April 2020 06:14 (four years ago) link
Konami is exclusively a pachislot company now
― silby, Tuesday, 28 April 2020 06:18 (four years ago) link
https://imgur.com/a/I3DoKJe
― may the force leave us alone (zchyrs), Tuesday, 28 April 2020 11:39 (four years ago) link
let's try that againhttps://i.imgur.com/IZ1ndgt.jpg
― may the force leave us alone (zchyrs), Tuesday, 28 April 2020 11:41 (four years ago) link