What the fuck is this: Castlevania SOTN is now going for like $70?!!

axiom verge is my favorite of the recent batch; hollow knight is also very good (and quite long, I didn't finish it)

I thought Dust an Elysian Tale was really boring

but I did enjoy the Strider reboot, worth a go if you see it cheap

I have that from PS+

new Bloodstained Steam demo is supposed to drop on June 21st.

Hollow Knight definitely rules. it gives me more Metroid feels than Vania but that is mostly the level design. controls are nice and the hand drawn art is very charming in an Edward Gorey way.

Metroidvania games always seem more metroid than vania to me, tbh. The metroid part is the exploration of the map, gradually accumulating new skills/items that let you backtrack and reach previously inaccessible areas. What is the vania part? Just being awesome?

Maybe a sort of Gothy vibe?

I don't think it's a matter of 'parts' - it's that Metroid and middle/late Castlevania are the most influential examples of this formula.

the melee combat. Metroid was shooter based. the focus on fantasy over sci fi.

Oh, we're talking the parts of Hollow Night specifically? nvm

Vampire Killer came out 2 months after Metroid and had backtracking/unblocking previously inaccessible areas. ditto Simon's Quest. "Metroidvania" the term is used because both series have used these elements since their inception.

Hollow Knight makes me think Metroid cos the rooms themselves are cavelike floating platforms and such. you could plop Samus down and it would work. you even attack the barriers on the sides of screens just like you attack the doors in Metroid.

but the combat is more close-quarter, more like SOTN.

middle/late Castlevania

I guess that’s the key. Symphony of the Night, especially. Early castlevanias didn’t have the backtracking and all of that, though, while they were all present in Metroid from the very beginning.

Yeah I was very disappointed to find Castlevania IV on the SNES mini was fully linear, no exploration/backtracking in there at all.

Anyway my metroidvania recommendation if people are looking for good examples of the form would probably be Shadow Complex.

I've gotta try IV again. I don't think I ever finished it. Playing through the original Castlevania with the ILG thread a few years back was so much fun.

Some of the earlier Castlevanias have multiple alternate routes

Rondo of Blood has alternate paths and secret levels. Bloodlines has areas you can only access with certain abilities. Castlevania 3 has alt paths.

Simon's Quest had lots of backtracking and a full 2D open world with upgradable abilities that unlocked inaccessible areas. before that the original Japanese Castlevania Vampire Killer had backtracking and it came out two months after the first Metroid.

Simon's Quest had lots of backtracking and a full 2D open world with upgradable abilities that unlocked inaccessible areas.

obv i defer to you because i know you're a huge fan of those early games, but that's news to me! my old school castlevania go-to is 3. i don't think i ever got far enough in simon's quest to realize it had those elements you were talking about. I should revisit.

Simon's Quest rules! i recommend playing it with a guide as the NPCs are purposefully designed to mislead you in places. once you get past the infamous obscurity it is a really cool game that is ahead of it's time design-wise. also the music is my favorite of the series.

it sort of makes sense that Castlevania would need capacity of a CD to go fully open world though. you can do caverns with minimal tile art compared to a detailed castle where every room sort of has to have a unique look to it and there are all kinds of additional details like chairs, furniture, lamps, etc.

Castlevania has a more dense world. this is one thing i like about Hollow Knight, there is tons of grass, fences, signs, wrought iron posts, etc. architectural detritus of no consequence littering the landscape that you can satisfyingly slice. it is enjoyable even though it provides no real benefit, like rolling in OOT.

i mean all this is _true_ as far as that goes, but nobody really used the term "metroidvania" before sotn, did they?

steamworld dig 2 is definitely an improvement on the first game. kind of blows it out of the water, honestly.

that's it, i'm using internet search

check out this URL: http://tvtropes.org/g00/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Metroidvania?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8%3D&i10c.ua=1

This sub-genre gets its name from the Metroid and Castlevania series. The Trope Maker was Metroid, published in 1986, and subsequent Metroid games have consistently used it in all of its installments (except Prime Pinball). Castlevania first used the style in 1986's Vampire Killer and 1987's Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, before abandoning it and then returning to it after the success of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, the Trope Codifier. The term itself was originally used for the Castlevania games of the same style as Symphony of the Night, but Jeremy Parish of Retronauts, expanded the definition so that it referred to an entire genre; his use of the term popularized it, and along with it his definition. Ironically, the designer of Symphony of the Night actually modeled that game on the The Legend of Zelda series, which also shares a number of traits with this genre though is often overlooked in discussions due to not being 2D side-scrolling.

While Metroid and Castlevania were the Trope Maker and Trope Codifier, respectively, the Ur Examples were Brain Breaker (1984/1985) and Dragon Slayer II: Xanadu (1985). Several early Metroidvania titles were inspired by these titles, particularly Xanadu. Metroidvania elements could be traced further back to non-platformer games Tutankham (1982) and The Portopia Serial Murder Case (1983).

interesting tidbit from that:

An interesting note is that the man behind most of the Metroidvania titles had actually never heard of the term until around 2012 (though he quite liked it). He said his inspiration in creating Symphony of the Night actually came from Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (which in turn borrowed elements from Dragon Slayer II: Xanadu and the original Metroid).

E3 backer demo codes have just been released for Bloodstained

yeah the vania part just refers to symphony of the night and it's successors which were the other high profile game series that used metroid style world design in a side scroller

played the new demo for a bit, i like it! very cool that when you change your equipment, it's visually represented in the on-screen character.

this game is looking really cool! the cutscenes are a little rough but the design of the levels themselves is very promising. it really feels like HD SOTN level of detail wise. rooms have all kinds of furniture, chairs, lamps, curtains, cabinets, piles of books, candelabras, the necessary gothic garb. i just want to stop and look at the backgrounds, which is what SOTN made me want to do, so that's a good sign.

the 3D graphics really stand out in areas, like outdoor sections where trees and rows of statues scroll in the foreground and background. some cool perspective effects, like an MC Esher style castle, at play here. they did some of this stuff in SOTN w some light use of 3D animation to emphasize a kind of infinity mirror giant castle. so what we have here is proportionally and gameplay wise pretty classic SOTN level design, with plenty of platforms, only really nice.

this feels like a totally different approach than the 2.5D games they have done so far. the Rondo remake was a little dull and blurry. here things really stand out and it works well. its the closest thing to an HD Dawn of Sorrow. also the game is no pushover which is good news, one of SOTN's biggest criticisms. looking forward to this!

https://i.imgur.com/RMOvSqol.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yDtiCzyl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qYsTpLil.jpg

any game where you can sit down is a good game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Q1rXhHL6g

oh god the '90s video edit fx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvmdRTk3B9A
Never really heard much about Slain: Back From Hell.

And new trailer for Blasphemous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srtnPqP9fn8

The initial release of Slain had bad gameplay, then the designer listened to the player response and improved it.

I'm starting Sundered, which has goodly backtracking but it also has enemy waves that have too much chaos for me to use any strategy. I'll stick with it.

Bloodstained this month, OMG. I might buy it at full release price, which I haven't done for any full-priced game since Order of Ecclesia a decade ago.

Who's playing Bloodstained? I got past the demo portion. Great so far.

Bloodstained is going hard into SOTN territory. I thought a character was the game's version of Alucard, but then I found another character and that was DEFINITELY Alucard.

plan to dive in on Sunday. sounds good

There are some tricks retained from SOTN that are given away in the loading screens. I think that's a good compromise between being beginner-friendly and being for Castlevania veterans. And there are also at least a few new tricks I've found.

One example: The backdash system is exactly the same as SOTN, where you can cancel a move into a backdash into another move, but you can't backdash a second time. This gets a loading screen hint. In SOTN, repeated dashing was best with a shield equipped to cancel into because they had no recovery time. Now in Bloodstained, I haven't found a shield yet, but you can cancel backdash into duck to achieve the same thing.

There's one shard that's obviously very powerful -- the books. You can equip two safe rings (def++, att--) and they'll still do good damage because they aren't based on the attack stat. I got through one of the bosses on the first try just by hitting it with the books. Today I switched out them out just because they were getting boring. It seems like a lot of the shard attacks aren't very good, but it'll be fun to experiment with them.

Way back when I backed Bloodstained for the Switch. Got the download yesterday and played a few minutes, but it seemed kind of ... janky. Looked online this morning and I'm not the only one having problems on Switch. :(

yeah it sounds like the switch version is rough

Just posted on their kickstarter page
“We have been listening to the feedback regarding Switch performance. Our goal is for everyone, regardless of platform, to be able to enjoy the game and have it run smoothly. We want to live up to your, and our, expectations.
Throughout the QA process we have been addressing performance issues in the game. Update 1.01 was published to Switch prior to launch to add content and improve performance. It did not accomplish as much as we had hoped and we need to do more.
To address the concerns brought up by the community we are immediately shifting resources to improve performance and stability for the Switch. You can expect a number of small updates that will improve different areas of the game rather than waiting longer for one big update. We will have more details as we dive into the work.
We thank you for your patience and apologize for the inconvenience.
Jason “Question” Ryan
Sr Community Manager – 505 Games”

The PS4 version has crashed 3 times at the crafting screen for me. Not a huge deal but I've got to remember to save before and after crafting.

tbf they've only been working on it for four or so years.

Anyone played the retro Castlevania collection on switch? Looks fun, but I never played these games as a kid, and wondering if they hold up without the nostalgia value

Didnt know about this, I'm glad this type of collection is still coming out because I thought digital downloads of single games was wiping them out.

They take a bit of getting used to. I haven't played most of them but Bloodlines is good fun.

First game is tougher than I had patience for.