Bands you keep trying to like but can't get into

I dislike multipart harmonies for the most part

Well in that case you're not going to like the Beach Boys

xps it's all subjective of course. these are only my experiences.

Blue is the only Joni Mitchell album I've ever heard; I listened to it and immediately thought, "I understand why people love this artist, but I don't need to hear anything else by her as long as I live."

Agree that Kind of Blue is a better Miles Davis entry point (other candidates: Sketches of Spain, Round About Midnight, Milestones) than Bitches Brew. KoB clicked with me instantly at 15; BB took years to make sense, and I still don't play it very often.

> Well in that case you're not going to like the Beach Boys

Right, I think with a lot of these struggle-to-enjoy artists, there's some fundamental that is too hard to overcome. I can't pin down why Joni Mitchell escapes me, though, because I do seek out artists who have similar vocal styles, guitar and lyrical approaches. There's those weird cases of liking the descendants but not the originators. (Always disliked The Descendants, but I don't hear clamors of acclaim much these days...)

joni mitchell is another great example, but I'm not really surprised in this case; I find the music incredibly bland in almost all cases

i completely disagree with your initial impression of blue, those songs are all compositionally weird and playful, it's just maybe not as obvious about it as court & spark

― flamenco blorf (BradNelson), Friday, June 8, 2018 3:51 PM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes that's what I mean - its strengths are more subtly-felt and therefore, for me, hearing Court was what was able for me to get an 'in'. There's definitely layers to Joni-listening and I think that once you peel those back, it becomes an increasingly enjoyable listen

The jazz album that's going to be the first you don't have to *try* to like really depends on what expectations are drawing a person towards jazz in the first place. Like is the jumping off point IDM or hip hop or soundtracks or guitar rock? Miles has got a entry point for most expectations, though I agree Ah-Um is a great place for someone just trying to get a handle on ride cymbals and horns.

yeah totes. that's the neat thing about Miles is he has an album for almost every taste / occasion. If you like funk, go for On The Corner; if you're more into ambient or kraut or even house music, Silent Way; if you're more melodically inclined then Birth of Cool; psych-rock or experimental-rock, Bitches - KoB, I'm not sure?? Just a good all-rounder I guess, but it is very 'JAZZ' qua JAZZ to these ears, despite how groundbreaking it was when it first came out. I think I was expecting some mad freakout shit or some moody Waitsian stuff when I first wanted to hear jazz, but this felt a bit staid, a bit sleepy, a bit 'traditionalist' or something?

the thing is that even though it may feel traditionalist there are extremely few records like it, but i guess that requires knowledge about the method of improvisation

xp thinking about it some more, the incredibly bland/staid/vanilla-ness of a lot of singer-songwriters, even undeniably classic ones, is what usually* puts me off. I fully know this is a bad take but at the same time why would I listen to [redacted to somewhat shield me from bad takes] when The Dreaming or Sunny Border Blue or Dynamite or From the Choirgirl Hotel, etc. exist?

* unless there is something else going on, like, I'll always have a soft spot for James Taylor because I grew up in North Carolina and my parents played him all the time, usually on road trips through the mountains

Dunno, the first time I heard BB I was into so-called electronica, IDM, trip-hop, d&b, ambient and the like, and I just couldn't make heads or tails of it (didn't get Squarepusher either, though, and partly for the same reasons). Structure was the problem at the time, whereas KoB made perfect sense straight away, precisely because of its traditionalism.

Semi-ironic yacht rockers can dig "Time After Time"

the thing is that even though it may feel traditionalist there are extremely few records like it, but i guess that requires knowledge about the method of improvisation

― flamenco blorf (BradNelson), Friday, June 8, 2018 4:32 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah totally. Most people who've no real grounding in jazz but nevertheless want to know more about it won't really be aware of improvisation, or what individual players sound like, or how groundbreaking KoB really was in the context of the time compared to what else was going on. That's all because we've heard music that 'kind of sounds a bit like Kind Of Blue' on TV shows where jazz is being played in the background: it's become the benchmark by which jazz is compared and therefore the staple 'sound of jazz'.

Sgt Peppers, for similar reasons, is a bit NBD for people who'd have heard other multi-instrument 'concept'-style albums that came out since. The idea of having a pop album designed in this way with an imaginary band who plays the intro and the outro and all these conceptual pop songs about circuses and women floating in the sky wouldn't have even been conceived three or four years prior. But new listeners wouldn't find this stuff all that interesting, and would find the overarching concept a bit loose, a bit contrived maybe.

ultimately, i think this all boils down to context when listening to legacy acts who are worshipped as innovators. without context, you can often lose a lot. i'm not saying it's impossible to enjoy, say, Pet Sounds without context, but it helps to know a bit about who the Beach Boys were; what they were going for; what the other music of the time was doing etc..

I'm still a wee bit skeptical towards that line of thinking tbh. The main reason I gave Pet Sounds a spin is because I had read so much about what a great record it is and why. If anything, I can't help but wonder whether I would have liked it better without knowledge of these countless write-ups (I doubt it, but you never know).

Likewise, I occasionally feel like I don't enjoy Loveless as much as I should due to its canonical status. I always have this residual feeling that I'm missing out on a layer of greatness that's just beyond reach. Some classics breed anxiety, others not so much (I never experienced this with, say, The Dark Side of the Moon in spite of its conspicuous sense of self-importance).

The jazz album that's going to be the first you don't have to *try* to like really depends on what expectations are drawing a person towards jazz in the first place. Like is the jumping off point IDM or hip hop or soundtracks or guitar rock? Miles has got a entry point for most expectations, though I agree Ah-Um is a great place for someone just trying to get a handle on ride cymbals and horns.

― Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Friday, June 8, 2018 11:21 AM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is otm. My entry point to Miles was Agharta, after six months or so of my first exposures to the Stooges, Pere Ubu, Albert Ayler, and Coltrane. It was as perfect an introduction to his work as I could have imagined at that moment. If KoB had been foisted upon me instead, it likely wouldn't have registered.

otm...and context fades, which is why I find 'Horses' a lot more interesting than 'Kick Out The Jams' 50 years later.

(also don't know that I've ever heard anything from Spacemen 3 that lives up to some of the more hyperbolist writings on their music)

― he doesn't need to be racist about it though. (Austin), Thursday, 7 June 2018 23:28 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

High five! I feel the same way about Joy Division. I mean, I get why they're important and all that, but I kinda feel like if you've heard one song you've heard 'em all (early / Warsaw stuff excepted)

And I have tried really hard with Spacemen 3, but nothing ever sticks. I like bands that have imitated their particular sound (Velvets meets Stooges meets, err, Terry Riley?), but I just find their records very dull and monotonous.

― Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 7 June 2018 23:36 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You have to have dropped acid to them in the late 80s to get it, maan

John Martyn

― Duke, Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM (thirty-one minutes ago)

Ahhh, that hurts my soul!

What have you tried?

― he doesn't need to be racist about it though. (Austin), Thursday, 7 June 2018 19:41 (yesterday) 

Solid Air, which is the consensus "best" album. I think I've got Stormbringer as well. A perfect fit on paper, but it didn't click

Semi-ironic yacht rockers can dig "Time After Time"

You're Under Arrest was actually the second Davis album I heard, right after Kind of Blue; I bought it because it was the newest one at the time, and I immediately just accepted it as another facet of Miles. I still like a lot of his 80s material.

Duke, you may want to give Bless the Weather and Inside Out a go, if you have the desire to give him another chance.

Will do, thanks

jesus christ will anyone recommend one world which is his actual best album

i guess in line with dog latin's point solid air works really well when you've listened to the albums surrounding it

solid air was the first one I heard and it didn’t really do much for me. hearing small hours and glistening glyndebourne and head & heart though, jfc

also John Martyn tracks poll now

When it comes to John Martyn there would need to be a thread for I'd Probably Like It If I Listened To It But I've Never Got Round To It And Life's Too Short, Basically. Would be one hell of a long thread though.

gt Peppers, for similar reasons, is a bit NBD for people who'd have heard other multi-instrument 'concept'-style albums that came out since. The idea of having a pop album designed in this way with an imaginary band who plays the intro and the outro and all these conceptual pop songs about circuses and women floating in the sky wouldn't have even been conceived three or four years prior

it's not a "concept album," so anyone coming to it with that framing is going to be disappointed. the major leap of Pepper was having so many fuckin' great songs in ostentatiously different styles and arrangements, performed and recorded really really well. the styles and arrangements part of that was so immediately influential that a subsequent listener without cultural context has no reason at all to note or notice it.

eh i don't think that's true. pepper sounded really different from anything i'd ever heard even when i was 12. revolver took me a lot longer to "get"

sorry to talk about the beatles again

the major leap of Pepper was having so many fuckin' great songs in ostentatiously different styles and arrangements, performed and recorded really really well

I'd argue Revolver did it first (and much better, overall).

Brad, I love One World. I've always defended it, even though a lot of people consider it a move to the more commercial soft rock thing. To me, it's his last thoroughly classic album from his brilliant 70s run. And one of his best eras for live stuff too; check out the deluxe edition for a great solo set.

The solo live versions of 'Big Muff' from the time are pretty much badassery of the highest order:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btRv4MnPOBE

Man, check out that Frankensteined guitar!

Brad, I love One World. I've always defended it, even though a lot of people consider it a move to the more commercial soft rock thing

i don't hear this particular criticism in the record itself, but fair! "big muff" kicks so much ass

That version of Big Muff is immense!

I always send folk to this live version of Small Hours if I feel they need a Martyn conversion: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLVM560Fok

Jeez, when you *want* something to embed...

If you want it to embed, clip the "s" off the "https" part of the URL.

My nomination for this thread: Magma. I've tried multiple times, heard all the canonical albums, and they never sound the way they're described. It just doesn't do it for me at all.

Just thought of one: Can. like, I like a few select tracks (notably Vitamin C and Future Days) and some of their solo stuff but whenever I've put on any of their key albums it's like the music isn't hitting the sides which us a shame cos I really want to like them

Yeah, cosign on Can.

Also, The Blue Nile.

I'm ready to just resign myself to the fact that Ry Cooder's solo albums are terrible

This is my favorite ever version of 'Big Muff':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_zpNgamalw

That guitar tone is just huge. It's got that like "cocked wah" sort of sound. Some sort of filter.

Eleven years on from the start of this thread and nothing has much has changed, the Big Two remain...

1. Jefferson Airplane - though I have at least stopped buying their albums.

2. Derek Bailey - given that I've probably saw him live more than most Derek Bailey fans this has long been a lost cause.

Another one for me: Psychedelic Furs.

But it's a bit less-so with them, as I've always owned and rather enjoyed All of This and Nothing. It's just when I try to get into the proper albums that they lose me. Although, I do recall hearing Book of Days and World Outside and thinking they were kind of solid-ish.

re: psychedelic furs
I mean I'm kind of a huge fan and would say you're probably fine with a compilation. go to 'Should God Forget' or get the 1st album.

Ilx weighing in on kind of blue is one of my least favorite things ever

yeah totes. that's the neat thing about Miles is he has an album for almost every taste / occasion. If you like funk, go for On The Corner; if you're more into ambient or kraut or even house music, Silent Way; if you're more melodically inclined then Birth of Cool; psych-rock or experimental-rock, Bitches - KoB, I'm not sure?? Just a good all-rounder I guess, but it is very 'JAZZ' qua JAZZ to these ears, despite how groundbreaking it was when it first came out. I think I was expecting some mad freakout shit or some moody Waitsian stuff when I first wanted to hear jazz, but this felt a bit staid, a bit sleepy, a bit 'traditionalist' or something?

― My name is the Pope and in the 90s I smoked a lot of dope (dog latin), Friday, June 8, 2018 10:26 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So “jazz qua Jazz” = “traditionalist”

But “sounds like music I’m already familiar with that isn’t jazz” is presumably the “adventurous” choice?

Kind of Blue is a great entry point if you’re hoping to understand what miles davis was about at a core level, something close to an eternal essence that connects every piece of his entire career from his earliest recordings with Parker to his songs with easy mo bee; an understanding of his melodic genius, of his spare, minimal style, of his preference for understatement and unpredictability

But sure, on the corner is good if you like to rock out while reading Lester bangs or whatever

Three letters: G.B.V.

― Pleasant Plains, Monday, July 9, 2007 7:08 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm now as old as Bob Pollard circa. Isolation Drills and I still don't get this band.

But sure, on the corner is good if you like to rock out while reading Lester bangs or whatever

To write a novel, you don't have to study Charles Dickens—you'll do that in time. You'll exhaust your limitations first; don't forget, tradition is all around you. You're sinking in it, breathing it, and you can't escape it or resist it. To force it as a prerequisite—the most you can get out of it is that it presents you with such a phenomenal bunch of facts about how things are done that you're intimidated from ever doing anything. Art goes on forever, and my experience is that you start from where it excites you and if you're intelligent, you look from where the hell did this thing come?