"it's not good for baseball in that situation" -- unwritten rules being broken, playing baseball the wrong way

I think we all knew the Rays' 1-inning start would be "bad for baseball," and here's Zack Cozart

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb/reds/2018/05/21/zack-cozart-criticizes-rays-back-back-sergio-romo-starts/630381002/

Sliding into home to break up a double play where you barely nick the catcher's leg with clearly no intention to hurt him = open season on catchers

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23634315/anthony-rizzo-controversial-home-plate-slide-frustrates-pittsburgh-pirates

nah fuck that

the cubs as a team have a quite recent history of breaking pirates players' legs on slides
rizzo personally has a history of shady plays at the plate
joe maddon is a sanctimonious prick who believes only he and his team are capable of playing baseball the correct way. 'my concern is that they're teaching the fans the wrong thing' lol fuck you

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeT2L9TV0AIJEgA.jpg:small

rizzo was already out. diaz was not near the plate. did rizzo have a clear path to the plate (even if he weren't already out)? i will say yes. maybe he had no intention of 'hurting' diaz; a better way to do that is not to slide at his legs. he made a choice to go out of his way to hit diaz, which ten years ago would have been fine; now, it is not.

maybe tonight gregory polanco will, in the process of grounding out, slide into rizzo's knees or spike his achilles at first. it'll be cool, because he's just trying to break up the play.

and on the *other* 'playing baseball the right way' tip, this took place with the cubs up 5-0 in the eighth inning of a game in which the pirates managed two hits.

they were up 3-0 when it happened, this play led to it being 5-0

did the umps say anything about why they didn't call it an illegal slide?

ah, ok

Both the #Cubs and Pirates have been told by league that Rizzo should've been called for interference on his slide at home. That differs from the umpire's call on the field as well as the video review

— Carrie Muskat (@CarrieMuskat) May 29, 2018

curious about exactly who made this determination

that's not Joe Torre's territory, is it

The rule doesn't say that the runner must avoid the catcher if there's a clear path to home plate. The runner can choose his path as long as he can reach the plate and doesn't deviate from that path to go after the catcher.

He's also supposed to finish his slide (i.e be on the ground) before making contact with the catcher, in the photo above Rizzo's knees are a few inches above the ground. He could have been called out for that, but it's close.

The rule is supposed to protect catchers, not turn baseball into a zero contact sport. The rules (including the Utley rule) still leave plenty of room for breaking up plays.

there are no circumstances, barring a rundown, in which rizzo's natural path to the plate would involve being that far inside the baseline.

i did not say that baseball should be a zero-contact sport. if diaz had been standing on home plate, then go ahead and slide into him. diaz was not, and rizzo deliberately altered his course to hit him -- and i don't care that had his slide continued he could still have touched the plate.

in what way is this different than had rizzo just grabbed diaz's arm, or did an a-rod slap? other than being more likely to cause injury, i mean. it's an accident of history that catchers and middle infielders have long been considered fair game for this stuff when, say, first basemen are not. the recent rule changes have attempted to rectify that, making this slide illegal no matter how many armchair macho men complain about the wussification of the game

Blocking the plate isn't really the issue though. If the runner can reach home and doesn't deviate his path to go after the catcher, it can be a legal slide. It doesn't matter whether there is another path that might avoid the catcher or a shorter path or whatever.

There's always going to be more leeway in defining the "baseline" for slides into home, not least because you can slide through home. If you need to slide and stay on the base (if you're hoping to be called safe), like at second or third then you have less room to deviate and can't justify sliding into the fielder if he's not in contact with the base.

Plays usually end at first base, so there's no reason to make contact with a first baseman. You can also run through first, so it's really not comparable. It's not the same as a fielder trying to turn a double play at second, where the play is continuing while the runner is sliding. The same thing can happen at home.

i'm always curious about things that AREN'T considered unsportsmanlike ... like the hidden ball trick doesn't seem sportsmanlike or "the right way to play the game" but no one ever gets that mad when it happens, at least not to the point of retribution. pitch framing can border on cheating but it's considered a skill instead of something that will get you plunked. is it because good pitch framing and the hidden ball trick are just inherently cool?

hidden ball and pitch framing are neither attached to any superstition that i know of nor are they considered disrespectful of your opponent as far as i know, and it seems like all of the unwritten rules are one (don't talk about a no-hitter, don't step on the mound) or the other (don't bunt during a no-hitter, don't admire your home run, don't enjoy playing baseball). kinda surprised the defensive shift didn't get dangerously close to breaking axiom #2 but i guess you can't plunk the entire infield out of spite.

"don't enjoy playing baseball" lol

i think that mainly players don't want to feel embarrassed. pitch framing isn't really directed at your opponent so much as at the umpire; an ideal umpire shouldn't even care where the catcher's glove is.

as to why stealing signs is bad and the hidden-ball trick is good, i have no explanation

i'd almost argue the unwritten rule is "don't get caught by the hidden ball trick"

Former third baseman Matt Williams used a different technique. On more than one occasion, he asked the runner to step off the base so that Williams could sweep the dirt off it, then tagged out the runner when the runner complied.[4] This worked twice.[5][1]

lmao

In the minor leagues, in 1987 catcher Dave Bresnahan of the Williamsport Bills pulled an unusual hidden ball trick against the Reading Phillies in the Eastern League. With a runner on third base, Bresnahan switched catcher's mitts and put on a glove in which he had secreted a peeled potato. When the pitch came in, Bresnahan fired the white potato down the third-base line, enticing the runner to sprint home. Bresnahan then tagged the runner with the baseball which he kept in his mitt. The umpire awarded the runner home plate for Bresnahan's deception. Bresnahan was banned from the league for the incident, but the fans of the Bills loved the play and the team eventually retired Bresnahan's number.[19][20]

15 years ago i played in an adult wood-bat league -- my team was all the leftovers who weren't on or picked up by an established team, and we lost every single game. and i broke a lot of bats, but not in a fun way -- they just kind of splintered instead of blowing up like the big leaguers' do.

but i did pull off the hidden-ball trick as a first baseman. and since i am a sad old man i will bring it up every time it's mentioned on this borad

xp. that's amazing

lol

Baseball's biggest problem isn't strikeouts or analytics or pace of play.

It's curmudgeonly broadcasters that piss on the current game and players. You know what's a bad way to sell a product to young fans? Screaming "get off my lawn!" every night. pic.twitter.com/GhnT3TdXeu

— Joe Giglio (@JoeGiglioSports) July 29, 2018

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24329670/jayson-werth-rails-super-nerds-killing-game

I think it’s at least a little bit fair to be disgruntled at some nerd telling you where to hit the baseball

I think he’s probably just mad that no one is telling him to hit baseballs this year

Wish he had just retired a Nat :( but I guess the chance to keep hitting baseballs has a draw of its own

i dont blame older players for feeling that way.

one of the bigger names to retire as a tacoma rainier

i think someone should suggest the Saberseminar sell SuperNerd t shirts next year

unwritten front-office rules

Believe the Tigers were about to get big bites on Shane Greene -- until a non-contender blocked him on the waiver wire. That's legal, but front offices don't forget the obstruction. Among non-contenders, it's viewed as a low blow.

— Lynn G. Henning (@Lynn_Henning) August 23, 2018

There's disrespectful batflips, and then there's this.....pic.twitter.com/mmnVrkVfOb

— Cut4 (@Cut4) September 11, 2018

44 second home run trot

kinda like Burt Reynolds entering the Tonight Show set in 1978

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6lkdeJ3gPk

maybe goose gossage is the way he is because of how long it took george brett to get around the bases here:

October 10, 1980: George Brett hits a three-run home run in Game 3 of the ALCS. The Royals sweep the Yankees and win their first American League pennant. #RaisedRoyal pic.twitter.com/rbwFmeosi6

— Kansas City Royals (@Royals) October 10, 2018

I think it was Ron Coomer the other night who was talking about how it used to be if your team was playing a meaningless game on the last day of the season, everyone just wanted to go home, so if a batter saw more than three pitches in an at-bat, they were fined by their teammates. Not even a kangaroo court situation since it was the end of the season, just immediately pay $50 or $100 if you see more than three pitches. It was a pretty funny anecdote.

Here's my unwritten rule: There is literally no bad time to hit dingers. https://t.co/dkBVMWrAXP

— Michael Baumann (@MichaelBaumann) May 18, 2021

wow i just caught up with this. fuck larussa. unbelievable.

You’d think sticking up for your own players would be an important unwritten rule...

I honestly hope the Sox have a bad skid of losses and LaRussia’s gets ripped apart by fans and the team alike. I am so grossed out by him at this point that I want his own players to just ridicule him openly

i would prefer that the sox keep winning and larussa get another DUI and gets ripped apart by fans and the team alike

i dunno - if two DUIs wasn't enough to prevent him from getting the job, I'm not sure three will have any effect.

It's good that everyone under the age of 65 who doesn't have a sports media job appealing to Boomers thinks LaRussa's full of shit.

Hate can be very therapeutic, so a gift for everyone.

https://www.billjamesonline.com/r_e_s_p_e_c_t/

(I knew instantaneously where he'd come down.)

"Yermin the Vermin"...fuck this guy.

bill the pill

yermin the vermin doesn't even work unless you mispronounce his name

Has a reporter asked if the Minnesota Twins’ feewings were hurt? That seems to be the germane issue. And an important one in baseball, that famous respecter of players’ feewings.

"Yermin the Vermin"--only skimmed, missed that; ugh.

how about “bill the dipshit” it has a ring to it

I love how swinging at a pitch is considered reprehensible but then throwing at a player in retribution is totally ok according to the "unwritten rules"

jeez, bill james, cut it out

In the great movie "Gran Torino", Clint Eastwood pats a young child on the head, only to learn that this is considered highly offensive in the Hmong culture. It’s an unwritten rule.

We are, of course, in the middle of a controversy involving the unwritten rules. Yermin Mercedes, who is no relation to his cousin, Vermin Gran Torino . .

Anyway, the thing that has just happened, between Yermin the Vermin and Tony LaRedneck, has very close parallels in my life, your life, and everybody else’s life.

Mercedes, of course. . . and I mean no disrespect by joking about his name. . .but

i haven't seen gran torino, so maybe i'm missing some connection to it and "vernin"? james has clint eastwood on the brain

If an established position player is pitching then swing all you want imo.

This is not a triple A pitcher trying to get a job in the majors and they are adding to his era in a blowout, the other team basically called in the L.

Astros broadcast just said that A's fans stand out to them because they seem to boo only players from the 2017 team, and not ALL of the current Astros like other fans do.

— Gabe (@925mlbfan) May 20, 2021

:)

i believe that the best fans in baseball will also boo the proper players

Wonder if Springer will get such a treatment.