I didn’t know they toured together in ’97... I saw them both separately that year
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Saturday, 19 May 2018 14:43 (five years ago) link
Pavement wrote 'Heaven Is A Truck', and ripped the first part of 'Spike Cyclone' for a few bars of 'Half A Canyon'. Malkmus has waxed poetic on them many times:
When Pavement was going, it was Forced Exposure and Gerard Cosloy's Conflict, and it was real, real small. Little bands like the Royal Trux, they were so important, their first album even though weren't even a band yet. (https://pitchfork.com/features/interview/7592-stephen-malkmus/)
"Rain Ammunition" (from a John Peel session): Malkmus: That was like imagining a Sticky Fingers Stones, minor chord-y kind of Royal Trux-y, Stones-y, melancholy, druggy song. I don't know what [the lyrics] are about. I couldn't even tell you. They're just, like, weird shit. (http://www.newsweek.com/stephen-malkmus-guide-pavements-secret-history-359263)
I like bands that have an aura to them. There's a band I like, Royal Trux. They have more of an evil side to them; they're meaner than us. Like, they don't write "nice" songs. I mean, we are nice suburban boys in the end. We try to have a bit of swagger that comes off a little sexist in some lyrics. That's part of our going for that classic-rock thing. (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/q-a-pavements-stephen-malkmus-on-painting-curbs-thrift-store-shopping-and-selling-out-19970320)
I like the Royal Trux and Guided By Voices, I think they’re particularly gifted. (https://bombmagazine.org/articles/stephen-malkmus/)
Prior to new album's release, Malkmus talked a bit about what inspired the music, pointing to some unexpected and refreshing touchstones in newer underground rock, like Sic Alps. "They have, to me, taken some of the trashiness of Royal Trux, which is a band I liked a lot, in the right way," he says now. "Sometimes you'll hear these bands like the Kills and MGMT say, 'We're into the Royal Trux.' And you listen to them and think, 'Where is the Royal Trux in this? I don't hear it.' Okay, maybe you're a duo, and you smoke cigarettes and you're tough. You don't get to call yourself Royal Trux-influenced. (http://www.westword.com/music/stephen-malkmus-and-the-jicks-rock-the-gothic-this-week-5123341)
Bit of a boring question, I’m afraid, but what were the five albums that influenced you most? David Portner (Avey Tare), Animal Collective Malkmus: That’s a tough question! Okay – Ege Bamyasi by Can. Loaded by the Velvets, Hex Enduction Hour by The Fall, Born Innocent by Redd Kross, and Cats And Dogs by Royal Trux. There. That’s five. All classics! (http://www.uncut.co.uk/features/an-audience-with-stephen-malkmus-15465#LGM5eXv032DtXE2E.99)
and this hilarious quote from Mark Ibold:
Malkmus has said that this song “Heaven Is a Truck” is about the singer from Royal Trux, meaning Jennifer Herrema, I guess. You’ve referred to her as Jennifer Trux. Have you toured with them? What are they like?Mark: Actually, we’re about to go on tour with them. I haven’t seen them yet. They’re a straightedge band from DC, as far as I know. Not a lotta info on their record. They’re a couple, Jennifer and Neil, the former Pussy Galore guitar guy. I dig their single “Strawberry Soda.” (https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/qbz89x/heart-and-soul-of-band-called-pavement-165-v16n10)
In comparison, how often has Trux commented on Pavement:
JJ: I'll have to check it out on the site. So you've known Berman for a while, then. JH: Oh, yes. Longlonglonglong time. JJ: How about do you know the kids of Pavement? JH: (pause) JJ: Like Malkmus or any of those cats. JH: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. forever and ever. (Interview With Jennifer Herrema, Fabula Magazine, June 2000
then.
JH: Oh, yes. Longlonglonglong time.
JJ: How about do you know the kids of Pavement?
JH: (pause)
JJ: Like Malkmus or any of those cats.
JH: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. forever and ever. (Interview With Jennifer Herrema, Fabula Magazine, June 2000
Stephen Malkmus: "Jennifer and the Ess-Dog" (Matador) NMH: Whenever I hear Steve sing, I think, Oh, this dude's British. But this is cool. It sounds like a cue from a movie. What I like best about his songs is trying to figure out where all the little pieces come from. What is this? Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah. TONY: Do you think this song is about you and Jennifer? NMH: Probably not. His solo thing is great, cause he can sell as many records as Pavement did, but he doesn't have to split the money. Doo-dah-doodah-doo. Fuck! What is this? TONY: When Pavement and Royal Trux were starting out on Drag City, people always compared the two bands. Now you both have solo debuts. NMH: Yeah, the timing is an interesting coincidence, though I don't think there's ever been too many parallels. (Single File : Former Royal Trux king Neil Michael Hagerty burns rubber on some tunes, Time Out Issue 296, May 2001)
NMH: Whenever I hear Steve sing, I think, Oh, this dude's British. But this is cool. It sounds like a cue from a movie. What I like best about his songs is trying to figure out where all the little pieces come from. What is this? Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah.
TONY: Do you think this song is about you and Jennifer?
NMH: Probably not. His solo thing is great, cause he can sell as many records as Pavement did, but he doesn't have to split the money. Doo-dah-doodah-doo. Fuck!
What is this?
TONY: When Pavement and Royal Trux were starting out on Drag City, people always compared the two bands. Now you both have solo debuts.
NMH: Yeah, the timing is an interesting coincidence, though I don't think there's ever been too many parallels. (Single File : Former Royal Trux king Neil Michael Hagerty burns rubber on some tunes, Time Out Issue 296, May 2001)
STEREOGUM: I’ve seen you play many times over the years in different bands, but the first time I saw Royal Trux play was in Oklahoma and you were opening for Pavement. I just remember that people in the audience were totally freaked out by it. My friends were like, “What the fuck is going on?”JH: Especially being with Pavement. Steve liked to think we had so much in common but I think we frightened a lot of their audience, Basically we had Pavement’s dressing room to ourselves every night because they were so freaked out over what we might be doing. I was like “Yeah, just stay on the bus.” (https://www.stereogum.com/953531/progress-report-jennifer-herrema/franchises/progress-report)
JH: Especially being with Pavement. Steve liked to think we had so much in common but I think we frightened a lot of their audience, Basically we had Pavement’s dressing room to ourselves every night because they were so freaked out over what we might be doing. I was like “Yeah, just stay on the bus.” (https://www.stereogum.com/953531/progress-report-jennifer-herrema/franchises/progress-report)
― whitehallunity, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:20 (five years ago) link
figured I'd break my post into two to avoid being so long, but basically Pavement created their sound and stayed with it til they quit, whereas Trux were continually re-shaping theirs as they moved along, which for me makes for a more varied and interesting body of work.
― whitehallunity, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:23 (five years ago) link
IS THAT A QUESTION?
― albvivertine, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:32 (five years ago) link
appeal denied
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:38 (five years ago) link
Neither band here interests me and my taste is pretty indie.
― He said captain, I said wot (FlopsyDuck), Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:39 (five years ago) link
I don't remember that being a RTX lyric, but I guess the chances are pretty high xpost
― albvivertine, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:41 (five years ago) link
psyglr -vs- pvmnt would be harder for me cuz i loved pg but i don't really listen to them anymore and i will still play pavement CDs so they win there too i think. plus, i like everything that pavement did pretty much. every album. can't say that about everybody. started on a high note. ended on a high note. more people should do that.
― scott seward, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:43 (five years ago) link
I don't remember that being a RTX lyric, but I guess the chances are pretty high
red light makes me think i'm going the wrong way, hombre
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:48 (five years ago) link
the point is only rtx made accelerator
― albvivertine, Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:05 (five years ago) link
not taken in by all that funky narration
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:14 (five years ago) link
So weird to me that anyone finds these two bands all that similar. They do both feature singing and guitars, I guess.
― Now I know my ABCs. Next time won't you scream at me? (Old Lunch), Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:32 (five years ago) link
these bands are both pretty divisive. It would be fun to do a mega 90s indie poll (GBV, Pavement, Superchunck, etc).I'd probably take Superchunk over any one.
― campreverb, Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:39 (five years ago) link
Both bands have my heart, but one has my undivided attention.
...is that a question?
― edges, Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:52 (five years ago) link
Pavement: better songs. tho Hagerty solo & Black Bananas both get play from me. my RTX time is like...I bought those records, I enjoyed them at the time, and that time is gone
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 19 May 2018 17:49 (five years ago) link
Probably a point prior to the 2nd s/t RT record and Slanted & Enchanted (so 1992 I guess) where this was might have been a contest, but basically everything RT did from that record on has been great and most of what Pavement has done since has been good to okay.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 19 May 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
Jennifer doesn’t like pavement FYI
― Right column Leftist (sunny successor), Saturday, 19 May 2018 22:05 (five years ago) link
Royal trux is the right answer
― Ross, Saturday, 19 May 2018 23:15 (five years ago) link
Thinking Fellers is the right answer.
― EZ Snappin, Sunday, 20 May 2018 00:55 (five years ago) link
This is rtx so easy I feel kinda mean to Malkmus
― albvivertine, Sunday, 20 May 2018 01:01 (five years ago) link
Lol at the idea Joan Crawford's still listening to Pavement records
― albvivertine, Sunday, 20 May 2018 01:03 (five years ago) link
I had a Royal Trux album in the '90 - even liked it. I don't know what happened to it. Stoned noisy clatter as I recall. Cool but not particularly distinctive from a bunch of other bands doing stoned noisy clatter at the time. Pavement, well, probably one of the most influential bands of the decade, and one still ripped off by many bands that I like and listen to today. So them.
― o. nate, Sunday, 20 May 2018 01:10 (five years ago) link
I remember RT as a noisy band without hooks but it’s been a minute
― calstars, Sunday, 20 May 2018 01:55 (five years ago) link
previous two posts describe certain RTX efforts but i think of them as melodical and hooky as shithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVlewx88Gr8
― salt sugar fat, that's where it's at (rip van wanko), Sunday, 20 May 2018 02:05 (five years ago) link
think of them as more groove than hook though I still get "junkie nurse"'s irritating refrain caught in my head from time to time
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:16 (five years ago) link
not as irritating as juicy juice iirc
― salt sugar fat, that's where it's at (rip van wanko), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:23 (five years ago) link
Both of these bands are like classic rock for me. RTX was more difficult / harder to get into, but totally mysterious / badass, and they seemed to lack that suffocating self-awareness that Pavement possessed. Good match up, but I think Royal Trux could beat up Pavement if it came down to it. Love Transmaniacon, NMH's first solo/self-titled album, and a lot of Malk's solo (+ the Jicks) material.
― braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:27 (five years ago) link
As for vocal skills, Royal Trux crushes Pavement.
― braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:30 (five years ago) link
Don't really listen to Malkmus anymore, but I'm still 'discovering' Royal Trux gems.
― braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:32 (five years ago) link
i honestly haven't listened to a whole lot of royal trux but i'll take "xi" by howling hex over anything pavement or malkmus did. hagerty is such an amazing guitar player.
― you bet, nancy (map), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:52 (five years ago) link
weird thread
― k3vin k., Sunday, 20 May 2018 04:05 (five years ago) link
youre weird
― you bet, nancy (map), Sunday, 20 May 2018 04:17 (five years ago) link
fair
― k3vin k., Sunday, 20 May 2018 04:39 (five years ago) link
Trux Trux Trux
― bedraggled vorticist (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 20 May 2018 05:15 (five years ago) link
figured I'd break my post into two to avoid being so long, but basically Pavement created their sound and stayed with it til they quit, whereas Trux were continually re-shaping theirs as they moved along, which for me makes for a more varied and interesting body of work.― whitehallunity, Saturday, May 19, 2018 11:23 AM(yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― whitehallunity, Saturday, May 19, 2018 11:23 AM(yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This is u&k but I think merits even a little more elaboration. There's a familiar indie metatrope about projects which, initially mired in abrasive outsider/underground aesthetics--entirely listener-unfriendly--manage to pull themselves out of the muck & murk and embrace pop structure. This is a decent if generalized description of RTX's first four albums, but it could also apply to Ariel Pink, or Sonic Youth, or any number of classic indie bands: that's why it's a metatrope. Another metatrope is the band who plays with a specific genre and its well-established tropes but manage to throw in enough anomalous, quirky elements that no one could ever confuse their music for the real thing. Again, this is an okay summation of Trux circa Cats & Dogs/Thank You , where the residual scuzzy noise, spaced out vocals, and lo-fi sound marks the albums as distinctive, 'artistic' takes on Southern rock.
But usually bands and artists who go down this road, once they develop their singular signature modes of offkilter genre deconstruction, they tend to run with it and then run it into the ground. What they don't do--oftentimes because they don't have the real chops to do this--is actually work out a convincing 'straight' version of the genre they're fucking with, the way Trux manage, to an extent, with Sweet Sixteen and then wholly with Pound for Pound . Another thing they don't usually do is stumble upon an entirely distinct, secondary mode of quirky genre dislocation such as the batshit spectrum-analyzer plastique of Accelerator & the first side of Veterans . The higher impression one gets from all of this is not just of a bizarro version of rock but of a finely-calibrated tug of war between rock and bizarro elements that feel like the product of a lot of higher-level thinking about what rock is, and what it can mean.
― bedraggled vorticist (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 20 May 2018 08:14 (five years ago) link
great post, and 100% otm
― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 20 May 2018 09:51 (five years ago) link
more like Royal Sux
― alpine static, Sunday, 20 May 2018 10:07 (five years ago) link
big 4:
Slayer = Royal TruxMetallica = PavementMegadeth = ?Anthrax = ?
I'm kinda thinking Anthrax might be Sebadoh, which would make the Folk Implosion SOD.
― earlnash, Sunday, 20 May 2018 12:17 (five years ago) link
Royal Trux, IME, had in common with Beefheart a dissuasively-high difficulty level that served as an initial barrier of entry, but both bands ultimately rewarded my perseverance in spades and continue to do so. I went obsessively all-in with Pavement for a long stretch but it turns out that they just didn't hold my attention in the long run. Like there just didn't seem to be that many depths to plumb. Still love a lot of their stuff, though, particularly Wowee Zowee.
― Now I know my ABCs. Next time won't you scream at me? (Old Lunch), Sunday, 20 May 2018 13:01 (five years ago) link
megadeath = jesus lizard
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 20 May 2018 13:14 (five years ago) link
Jesus lizerd
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 20 May 2018 13:18 (five years ago) link
i've made my peace with the fact that royal trux are a joke that i don't get. it amazing how their music totally reminds me of being around really annoying people who are really high though. i totally want to get away from them. so, just as a spot-on approximation of junkie annoyance and whining they are successful to me.
also, vocally they both just remind me of muppets in a weird way and that's a personal reason why i can't really take listening to them for very long. constipated muppets.
Come will always be my number one '90s Stones-loving junk-inspired indie rock band of all time. They had the best vocalists too. and amazing songs.
― scott seward, Sunday, 20 May 2018 13:49 (five years ago) link
The 'Westing' collection plus the first 3 albums are absolutly classic in my book. Pretty varied and awesome.
I love the Royal Trux sound, but those four PAVEMENT albums have too many great songs.
― nicky lo-fi, Sunday, 20 May 2018 14:47 (five years ago) link
"including solo careers" tips this over to Trux for me, I like NMH's solo stuff way more than Malkmus, and RTX/BB vs. Spiral Stairs is a blowout
― sleeve, Sunday, 20 May 2018 15:41 (five years ago) link
"it amazing how their music totally reminds me of being around really annoying people who are really high though. i totally want to get away from them. so, just as a spot-on approximation of junkie annoyance and whining they are successful to me."
oh shit you might have just ruined RT for me
― two cool rock chicks pounding la croix (circa1916), Sunday, 20 May 2018 17:51 (five years ago) link
Verbena's Souls for Sale is my "number one '90s Stones-loving junk-inspired indie rock band"
― campreverb, Sunday, 20 May 2018 17:59 (five years ago) link
Accelerator is the best album
― brimstead, Monday, 21 May 2018 01:59 (five years ago) link
Uhh..is that a kazoo on “another year?”And uh maybe they could take the time to tune the guitars before rolling the tape on “yellow kid?”
― cal (calstars), Monday, 21 May 2018 02:05 (five years ago) link
Not even going to bring up “banana question”Sorry Brim, not to rank on you. I guess I had to be there
― cal (calstars), Monday, 21 May 2018 02:06 (five years ago) link
For my money, if I want to hear don't-give-a-fuck, splay-footed, ersatz, atonal Stones jams I'd probably listen to U.S. Maple.
― o. nate, Monday, 21 May 2018 02:20 (five years ago) link
Pavement will win as they should
― nostormo, Thursday, 31 May 2018 21:25 (five years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Friday, 1 June 2018 00:01 (five years ago) link
lol
― mookieproof, Friday, 1 June 2018 00:06 (five years ago) link
check that expiration date man.
― campreverb, Friday, 1 June 2018 00:33 (five years ago) link
Ha ha -- Pave fans seem to be the silent majority (I didn't vote!)
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 00:45 (five years ago) link
duh
― k3vin k., Friday, 1 June 2018 00:47 (five years ago) link
Kinda surprised there are even 102 active people on ILX tbh
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 1 June 2018 00:53 (five years ago) link
Yeah that's unexpectedly high participation.
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 00:57 (five years ago) link
margin's closer than it should be
― alpine static, Friday, 1 June 2018 01:12 (five years ago) link
Jennifer’s gonna be pissed!
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 01:33 (five years ago) link
Lol at this turnout
― Οὖτις, Friday, 1 June 2018 01:56 (five years ago) link
trux is like loser rock or something thought, right? so they shouldn't win probably. jocks -vs- burnouts.
― scott seward, Friday, 1 June 2018 05:07 (five years ago) link
id just like to point out for the record this poll had high participation, was fun and educational and not weird
― you bet, nancy (map), Friday, 1 June 2018 05:19 (five years ago) link
I hated it. Made me think of people I hate
― He said captain, I said wot (FlopsyDuck), Friday, 1 June 2018 13:41 (five years ago) link
you should spend less time hating people, probably
― alpine static, Friday, 1 June 2018 17:54 (five years ago) link
I'm jamming "Cats & Dogs" rn -- one for the underdog!
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 18:08 (five years ago) link
I maintain that Pvmnt is the best indie band in this timestream, while RTX is like something that crossed over from an alternate timestream - or something.
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 18:12 (five years ago) link
― sprout god (lag∞n), Friday, 1 June 2018 19:19 (five years ago) link
― you bet, nancy (map), Friday, June 1, 2018 1:19 AM (fourteen hours ago)
fwiw I commented "weird thread" initially because the commentary was so one-sided in favor of RTX and I found that surprising
― k3vin k., Friday, 1 June 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
i voted in this! I felt emboldened by the abortion referendum!
― plax (ico), Friday, 1 June 2018 19:25 (five years ago) link
pavement suck!
it was fun, educational *and* weird imo
― mookieproof, Friday, 1 June 2018 19:34 (five years ago) link
their throats are filled with (h)(b)ugs
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 3 June 2018 13:38 (five years ago) link
I didn't know, until this thread, how zealous RTX partisans are, makes me wanna do a deep dig to see if I can see things their way
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 3 June 2018 14:22 (five years ago) link
Hagerty is top 5 guitarists for me.
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 3 June 2018 15:08 (five years ago) link
Who are other 4(?)
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Sunday, 3 June 2018 15:21 (five years ago) link
I'm gonna guess shakey's other four as Lou, Verlaine, Hazel and...maybe the gang of four guy, how'd I do
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 3 June 2018 17:06 (five years ago) link
I'll see your 4 and raise you: Jason Pierce, Sly Stone, Grasshopper & Pops Staples
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 3 June 2018 17:34 (five years ago) link
jimmy nolen?
― you bet, nancy (map), Sunday, 3 June 2018 17:43 (five years ago) link
Other four? Hazel, for sure. Neil Young. Michio Kurihara. Maybe one of the founding metal guys - page or iommi or blackmore - for fifth.
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 3 June 2018 18:00 (five years ago) link
Love a lot of the others mentioned but wouldnt say they are really virtuosos
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 3 June 2018 18:02 (five years ago) link
bless you for bringing blackmore in, good call
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 3 June 2018 18:21 (five years ago) link
Pavement never shocked me. Good indie rock band but apart from a few songs I never loved anything they did, it was just like ok it's 1994 and yr a teenager hanging in central AK,you have to like Pavement. When I heard RTX it was like wtf is this it's doing many weird unexpected things oh and then putting out a 70's rock record.
― albvivertine, Sunday, 3 June 2018 19:15 (five years ago) link
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34610540_10155616577271589_5008571413536178176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=255468b59e0eb14906f03b9f6ba878d3&oe=5BB4AF6F
― alpine static, Friday, 8 June 2018 06:14 (five years ago) link
Royal Trux obviously the best answer Wtf
― Slippage (Ross), Sunday, 10 June 2018 07:38 (five years ago) link