Sure is a lot of Steely talk on this thread and several others, but to anyone who wonders wtf, I'd say check out everything through Aja(the title track and several others, though they lost me about half way through).As I said way upthread, always heard thee voice of experience delivering hope and foreboding, quest and unrest---didn't know about giving up the baby as a very young unwed (as we said then) with no money, or bust-up of the (subsequent) marriage, but she sounded like she'd been through stuff, plus the observational, unresolved stuff along the way, as she continued on (and this was the debut). Some romantic, even exotic phrases, with the tunings and all, but in that big dark space, which I pictured as an apartment without much furniture to absorb the sound, dark because utilities not included.Striking difference--in tone, tempo, spareness--between originals and some early hit covers, esp. "Both Sides Now" and omg "Woodstock." Chirpier later w more AM radio ambitions of her own, but basically mostly okay.Joy of Cooking! Right on.
― dow, Saturday, 28 April 2018 22:24 (five years ago) link
So what's Gaucho? Chopped liver?
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 28 April 2018 22:25 (five years ago) link
Never made it through that one. xp And later on yeah the evidence of travel, and whatcha been reading Joni? "The Painted Word," prob some Didion.
― dow, Saturday, 28 April 2018 22:28 (five years ago) link
Holy hell, the first fistful of posts in this thread make ILM seem like the shittiest dude-bro place with no taste at all to exist on the internet, up there with Youtube comments.
Does the thread get any less ultra-dud?
Mitchell is a genius.
― Soundslike, Saturday, 28 April 2018 22:28 (five years ago) link
Thinking about "Hejira" (the song): the imagery is so dense, and is piled on so relentlessly, so thick and fast, that you could make a case for it being the ultimate Joni song, even though trying to choose the best is practically a fool's errand.
It's interesting to me that discussions of the developments and changes in Joni's music across the early-to-mid seventies tends to focus on some combination of the subject matter, the style of the musical arrangements and her voice, but not, generally, the changes to her lyrical style, which was the aspect that really struck me with the most force and intensity when I was first getting into her music as a 13/14 year old.
Hejira doesn't represent a break from Hissing in terms of lyrical style (subject matter, sure) - the key difference is that everything is faster, the interlocking metaphors and allusions so rapid that they resemble the ceaseless patterns of the guitar chords:
You know it never has been easyWhether you do or you do not resignWhether you travel the breadth of extremitiesOr stick to some straighter lineNow here's a man and a woman sitting on a rockThey're either going to thaw out or freezeListenStrains of Benny GoodmanComing through the snow and the pinewood treesI'm porous with travel feverBut you know I'm so glad to be on my ownStill somehow the slightest touch of a strangerCan set up trembling in my bonesI know no one's going to show me everythingWe all come and go unknownEach so deep and superficialBetween the forceps and the stone
Well I looked at the granite markersThose tribute to finality to eternityAnd then I looked at myself hereChicken scratching for my immortalityIn the church they light the candlesAnd the wax rolls down like tearsThere's the hope and the hopelessnessI've witnessed thirty yearsWe're only particles of change I know I knowOrbiting around the sunBut how can I have that point of viewWhen I'm always bound and tied to someoneWhite flags of winter chimneysWaving truce against the moonIn the mirrors of a modern bankFrom the window of a hotel room
― Tim F, Saturday, 28 April 2018 22:30 (five years ago) link
re the early posts: 2001 was a time when ILM was growing quite rapidly and the informal rules of engagement weren't particularly settled, so the nature and quality of threads was heavily contingent on which posters populated them first.
― Tim F, Saturday, 28 April 2018 22:33 (five years ago) link
And yes, they get better. Thanks for the lyrics, Tim! Reminds me that I hear this several times every Christmas (incl. on the local jazz station):
RiverJoni MitchellIt's coming on ChristmasThey're cutting down treesThey're putting up reindeerAnd singing songs of joy and peaceOh I wish I had a riverI could skate away onBut it don't snow hereIt stays pretty greenI'm going to make a lot of moneyThen I'm going to quit this crazy sceneI wish I had a riverI could skate away onI wish I had a river so longI would teach my feet to flyOh I wish I had a riverI could skate away onI made my baby cryHe tried hard to help meYou know, he put me at easeAnd he loved me so naughtyMade me weak in the kneesOh I wish I had a riverI could skate away onI'm so hard to handleI'm selfish and I'm sadNow I've gone and lost the best babyThat I ever hadOh I wish I had a riverI could skate away onI wish I had a river so longI would teach my feet to flyOh I wish I had a riverI made my baby say goodbyeIt's coming on ChristmasThey're cutting down treesThey're putting up reindeerAnd singing songs of joy and peaceI wish I had a riverI could skate away on
― dow, Saturday, 28 April 2018 23:06 (five years ago) link
Thinking about "Hejira" (the song): the imagery is so dense, and is piled on so relentlessly, so thick and fast, that you could make a case for it being the ultimate Joni song, even though trying to choose the best is practically a fool's errand.It's interesting to me that discussions of the developments and changes in Joni's music across the early-to-mid seventies tends to focus on some combination of the subject matter, the style of the musical arrangements and her voice, but not, generally, the changes to her lyrical style, which was the aspect that really struck me with the most force and intensity when I was first getting into her music as a 13/14 year old.Hejira doesn't represent a break from Hissing in terms of lyrical style (subject matter, sure) - the key difference is that everything is faster, the interlocking metaphors and allusions so rapid that they resemble the ceaseless patterns of the guitar chordsBeautiful, Tim F. This song has two "chords." C-sharp minor 9 and D9. This music has as much to do with Joao Gilberto as it does to "folk," seems to me. Excellent video explains the song's structure and her tuning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYWYb6_ET6U
― eddhurt, Saturday, 28 April 2018 23:49 (five years ago) link
tim, great post. was just listening to this this afternoon
― k3vin k., Saturday, 28 April 2018 23:57 (five years ago) link
Um, the chords in that video are from "Refuge of the Roads", not "Hejira". It also only covers the two-chord intro, so saying the song has only two chords is way off base.
― startled macropod (MatthewK), Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:18 (five years ago) link
lol
― sleeve, Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:18 (five years ago) link
WTF, "Refuge of the Roads" and "Hejira" are cross-labelled in my music library. How on earth did that happen? Apologies for the "correction", altho the two chord error is still wrong for "Hejira".
― startled macropod (MatthewK), Sunday, 29 April 2018 00:21 (five years ago) link
5:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY7MBzjfIvI
― flappy bird, Sunday, 29 April 2018 06:41 (five years ago) link
Amazing. Those haunting chords
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Sunday, 29 April 2018 07:08 (five years ago) link
In the mirrors of a modern bankFrom the window of a hotel room
I love these vivid images of 70's sterile modernity that she conjures on Hissing and Hejira.
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Monday, 30 April 2018 15:29 (five years ago) link
^^^ Yes indeed, which is exactly what I love about certain songs on Hissing too.
Harry's House, for instance, which contains this bland, 70s airline magazine imagery, even the softness in the production makes me think of shag carpet in a Hockney painting or an avocado trim phone.
― MaresNest, Monday, 30 April 2018 17:16 (five years ago) link
Right---from the beginning of "The Circle Game" (though being a circle, can have no beginning or end--except it's a game)Yesterday a child came out to wonderCaught a dragonfly inside a jarFearful when the sky was full of thunderto "Harry's House":A helicopter lands on the Pan Am roofLike a dragonfly on a tombAnd business men in button downsPress into conference roomsBattalions of paper-minded malesTalking commodities and salesWhile at home their paper wivesAnd paper kidsPaper the walls to keep their gut reactions hid
yellow checkers for the kitchenclimbing ivy for the bath
Didn't mean to quote so much, but it's hard to stop with that one.
― dow, Monday, 30 April 2018 21:00 (five years ago) link
Cruel, bleak, bitter, reductive, impassive, unblinking, kinda punk---not Didion this time, more Vonnegut, that surly bastard, especially when he was whoring for GE's publicity dept in Schenectady, slaving for the wifenkids---but later on too, when he was a superstar like JM.
― dow, Monday, 30 April 2018 21:06 (five years ago) link
But she does it better, in part because she's got the music, not just the page.
― dow, Monday, 30 April 2018 21:08 (five years ago) link
I like “A helicopter lands on the Pan Am roof / Like a dragonfly on a tomb,” but the rest seems a bit too much of a “Little Boxes”–style suburbia critique? I should go listen to the whole song...
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Monday, 30 April 2018 21:09 (five years ago) link
Yes the judicious music helps judgmental words: more nuances/gradients of tone.
― dow, Monday, 30 April 2018 21:11 (five years ago) link
But yeah the words start at the top
― dow, Monday, 30 April 2018 21:12 (five years ago) link
(and not just the roof)
It's a very nice song (or some other, less inadequate, adjective)
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Monday, 30 April 2018 21:39 (five years ago) link
I'm listening to "Hejira" now, and I'm really into it! Her phrasing is incredible.
I've had only minor exposure to Mitchell in the past (her discography is somewhat intimidating), but I'm clearly going to have to spend some time with this, and see where it leads me.
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Monday, 30 April 2018 22:20 (five years ago) link
At the risk of hyperbole, from Ladies of the Canyon to Mingus is one straight run of greatness, she barely puts a foot wrong.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 1 May 2018 07:54 (five years ago) link
No, you're dead right there.
― Lou Grant, the Iranian cinema of late '70s TV (stevie), Tuesday, 1 May 2018 09:29 (five years ago) link
Joni sighting:
A reunion for Joni and JTMark ShanahanJames Taylor was a long way from his home in the Berkshires this weekend, playing two shows at the venerable Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles. And there was something for everyone, from a rousing version of “Mockingbird” — on which opener Sheryl Crow performed the part sung by Carly Simon on the original 1974 recording — to classics such as “Sweet Baby James,” “Fire and Rain,” “You’ve Got a Friend,” “You Can Close Your Eyes,” and even “Something in the Way She Moves,” which JT played for Paul McCartney and George Harrison in 1968 before signing with Apple Records.But the most precious moment took place off-stage: Singer Joni Mitchell, who’s become something of a recluse of late, made a rare public appearance to say hello to her old friend and onetime lover. The pair shared a tender embrace backstage, and despite reports of health problems in recent years, Mitchell looked terrific with her hair fixed in an exquisite fishtail braid.
― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 6 June 2018 21:26 (five years ago) link
have to say just looking at a list of James Taylor's hits make me realize how much I hate the sound of his records
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 6 June 2018 21:32 (five years ago) link
James Taylor sucks as much as Joan Baez
― Slippage (Ross), Sunday, 10 June 2018 07:41 (five years ago) link
hmm but neither of them suck?
― niels, Sunday, 10 June 2018 08:45 (five years ago) link
I hate them both tbh, their voices are super-grating to my ears
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 10 June 2018 16:01 (five years ago) link
I can def see how Baez' voice can seem grating but I can also hear how it's pretty perfect
anyway I only really listen to the songs from Sweet Baby James (except the embarrasing I'm a Steam Train song) and Carolina in My Mind, and with Baez I'm all about Diamonds and Rust
her autobio was p cool too
― niels, Sunday, 10 June 2018 21:15 (five years ago) link
Larry Klein can go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.
― Category: Animist Rock (Matt #2), Tuesday, 12 June 2018 18:27 (five years ago) link
Does it get better after Night Ride Home or should I call it a day?
y'all suck
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 12 June 2018 18:29 (five years ago) link
what happened
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 18:30 (five years ago) link
― Category: Animist Rock (Matt #2), Tuesday, 12 June 2018 6:27 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It doesn't get better but I wouldn't go so far as saying you should call it a day.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 18:38 (five years ago) link
Turbulent Indigo has its moments. No one much likes "Sex Kills" but I do.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 12 June 2018 18:43 (five years ago) link
"Sex Kills" is fine but the main issue with Turbulent Indigo is realising that Joni clearly thought the best song on Night Ride Home was "The Windfall (Everything for Nothing)".
― Tim F, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 19:04 (five years ago) link
I have to see this new film about her performance at the Isle of Wight festival 1970 where she calmed down a crowd of 600,000 people:https://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2018/09/12/646751133/they-fed-me-to-the-beast-joni-mitchell-at-the-isle-of-wight-festival
― Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Wednesday, 12 September 2018 19:27 (five years ago) link
Ooh nice. P sure I saw some of the footage of that in the Isle of Wight doc. Her pleas to the crowd are very moving and touching and the whole thing puts the woodstock generation in a very different light than woodstock (granted it's in a different country).
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 12 September 2018 19:31 (five years ago) link
Isn't that the same festival where Leonard Cohen went on at 2am on the last night, and also calmed the crowd?http://www.openculture.com/2012/10/leonard_cohen_brings_a_mob_back_from_the_brink_with_a_spellbinding_set_at_the_1970_isle_of_wight_festival.html
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Thursday, 13 September 2018 02:15 (five years ago) link
Cogent thoughts about JM's take on life x music interacting w author's take on the two-night musical birthday party & benefit for The Music Center---not usually into Powers' writing these days, but damn (maybe I better check out her new book)https://www.npr.org/2018/11/09/666148055/joni-mitchell-at-75-trouble-is-still-her-muse
― dow, Sunday, 11 November 2018 03:02 (five years ago) link
Oof, the people at the very top of the thread arguing whether Joni Mitchell was "hot" or not. I guess 2001 was a long time ago...
Just came on here to express my love for Hejira. "Amelia" has been playing here on a loop for the past few days.
― Duke, Wednesday, 3 July 2019 12:22 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeaO5UZ5OcI
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 13:50 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxMwGTQ1bzU
― Duke, Wednesday, 3 July 2019 13:55 (four years ago) link
Don't know if it's been posted already but this is a great recap of the genesis of 'Mingus'
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 14:49 (four years ago) link
That reminds me, while watching Pen15, I thought, "Hm, Maya's dad is supposed to be a drummer who makes his living...in a touring Steely Dan cover band? Something about that sounds off." Then I looked it up and hey! Her dad is Peter Erskine!
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 15:27 (four years ago) link
So I work in a WeWork facility. There’s music playing constantly in the common areas. A few days ago it must have been singer-songwriter day. Carey came on at one point. I don’t think it’s possible to concentrate on work while Joni is singing. Too good to fade into the background.
― that's not my post, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 19:52 (four years ago) link