Joni Mitchell: Classic or Dud

Sure is a lot of Steely talk on this thread and several others, but to anyone who wonders wtf, I'd say check out everything through Aja(the title track and several others, though they lost me about half way through).
As I said way upthread, always heard thee voice of experience delivering hope and foreboding, quest and unrest---didn't know about giving up the baby as a very young unwed (as we said then) with no money, or bust-up of the (subsequent) marriage, but she sounded like she'd been through stuff, plus the observational, unresolved stuff along the way, as she continued on (and this was the debut). Some romantic, even exotic phrases, with the tunings and all, but in that big dark space, which I pictured as an apartment without much furniture to absorb the sound, dark because utilities not included.
Striking difference--in tone, tempo, spareness--between originals and some early hit covers, esp. "Both Sides Now" and omg "Woodstock." Chirpier later w more AM radio ambitions of her own, but basically mostly okay.
Joy of Cooking! Right on.

So what's Gaucho? Chopped liver?

Never made it through that one.
xp And later on yeah the evidence of travel, and whatcha been reading Joni? "The Painted Word," prob some Didion.

Holy hell, the first fistful of posts in this thread make ILM seem like the shittiest dude-bro place with no taste at all to exist on the internet, up there with Youtube comments.

Does the thread get any less ultra-dud?

Mitchell is a genius.

Thinking about "Hejira" (the song): the imagery is so dense, and is piled on so relentlessly, so thick and fast, that you could make a case for it being the ultimate Joni song, even though trying to choose the best is practically a fool's errand.

It's interesting to me that discussions of the developments and changes in Joni's music across the early-to-mid seventies tends to focus on some combination of the subject matter, the style of the musical arrangements and her voice, but not, generally, the changes to her lyrical style, which was the aspect that really struck me with the most force and intensity when I was first getting into her music as a 13/14 year old.

Hejira doesn't represent a break from Hissing in terms of lyrical style (subject matter, sure) - the key difference is that everything is faster, the interlocking metaphors and allusions so rapid that they resemble the ceaseless patterns of the guitar chords:

You know it never has been easy
Whether you do or you do not resign
Whether you travel the breadth of extremities
Or stick to some straighter line
Now here's a man and a woman sitting on a rock
They're either going to thaw out or freeze
Listen
Strains of Benny Goodman
Coming through the snow and the pinewood trees
I'm porous with travel fever
But you know I'm so glad to be on my own
Still somehow the slightest touch of a stranger
Can set up trembling in my bones
I know no one's going to show me everything
We all come and go unknown
Each so deep and superficial
Between the forceps and the stone

Well I looked at the granite markers
Those tribute to finality to eternity
And then I looked at myself here
Chicken scratching for my immortality
In the church they light the candles
And the wax rolls down like tears
There's the hope and the hopelessness
I've witnessed thirty years
We're only particles of change I know I know
Orbiting around the sun
But how can I have that point of view
When I'm always bound and tied to someone
White flags of winter chimneys
Waving truce against the moon
In the mirrors of a modern bank
From the window of a hotel room

re the early posts: 2001 was a time when ILM was growing quite rapidly and the informal rules of engagement weren't particularly settled, so the nature and quality of threads was heavily contingent on which posters populated them first.

And yes, they get better. Thanks for the lyrics, Tim! Reminds me that I hear this several times every Christmas (incl. on the local jazz station):

River
Joni Mitchell
It's coming on Christmas
They're cutting down trees
They're putting up reindeer
And singing songs of joy and peace
Oh I wish I had a river
I could skate away on
But it don't snow here
It stays pretty green
I'm going to make a lot of money
Then I'm going to quit this crazy scene
I wish I had a river
I could skate away on
I wish I had a river so long
I would teach my feet to fly
Oh I wish I had a river
I could skate away on
I made my baby cry
He tried hard to help me
You know, he put me at ease
And he loved me so naughty
Made me weak in the knees
Oh I wish I had a river
I could skate away on
I'm so hard to handle
I'm selfish and I'm sad
Now I've gone and lost the best baby
That I ever had
Oh I wish I had a river
I could skate away on
I wish I had a river so long
I would teach my feet to fly
Oh I wish I had a river
I made my baby say goodbye
It's coming on Christmas
They're cutting down trees
They're putting up reindeer
And singing songs of joy and peace
I wish I had a river
I could skate away on

Thinking about "Hejira" (the song): the imagery is so dense, and is piled on so relentlessly, so thick and fast, that you could make a case for it being the ultimate Joni song, even though trying to choose the best is practically a fool's errand.
It's interesting to me that discussions of the developments and changes in Joni's music across the early-to-mid seventies tends to focus on some combination of the subject matter, the style of the musical arrangements and her voice, but not, generally, the changes to her lyrical style, which was the aspect that really struck me with the most force and intensity when I was first getting into her music as a 13/14 year old.
Hejira doesn't represent a break from Hissing in terms of lyrical style (subject matter, sure) - the key difference is that everything is faster, the interlocking metaphors and allusions so rapid that they resemble the ceaseless patterns of the guitar chords
Beautiful, Tim F. This song has two "chords." C-sharp minor 9 and D9. This music has as much to do with Joao Gilberto as it does to "folk," seems to me. Excellent video explains the song's structure and her tuning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYWYb6_ET6U

tim, great post. was just listening to this this afternoon

Um, the chords in that video are from "Refuge of the Roads", not "Hejira". It also only covers the two-chord intro, so saying the song has only two chords is way off base.

lol

WTF, "Refuge of the Roads" and "Hejira" are cross-labelled in my music library. How on earth did that happen? Apologies for the "correction", altho the two chord error is still wrong for "Hejira".

5:28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY7MBzjfIvI

Amazing. Those haunting chords

In the mirrors of a modern bank
From the window of a hotel room

I love these vivid images of 70's sterile modernity that she conjures on Hissing and Hejira.

^^^ Yes indeed, which is exactly what I love about certain songs on Hissing too.

Harry's House, for instance, which contains this bland, 70s airline magazine imagery, even the softness in the production makes me think of shag carpet in a Hockney painting or an avocado trim phone.

Right---from the beginning of "The Circle Game" (though being a circle, can have no beginning or end--except it's a game)
Yesterday a child came out to wonder
Caught a dragonfly inside a jar
Fearful when the sky was full of thunder
to "Harry's House":
A helicopter lands on the Pan Am roof
Like a dragonfly on a tomb
And business men in button downs
Press into conference rooms
Battalions of paper-minded males
Talking commodities and sales
While at home their paper wives
And paper kids
Paper the walls to keep their gut reactions hid

yellow checkers for the kitchen
climbing ivy for the bath

Didn't mean to quote so much, but it's hard to stop with that one.

Cruel, bleak, bitter, reductive, impassive, unblinking, kinda punk---not Didion this time, more Vonnegut, that surly bastard, especially when he was whoring for GE's publicity dept in Schenectady, slaving for the wifenkids---but later on too, when he was a superstar like JM.

But she does it better, in part because she's got the music, not just the page.

I like “A helicopter lands on the Pan Am roof / Like a dragonfly on a tomb,” but the rest seems a bit too much of a “Little Boxes”–style suburbia critique? I should go listen to the whole song...

Yes the judicious music helps judgmental words: more nuances/gradients of tone.

But yeah the words start at the top

(and not just the roof)

It's a very nice song (or some other, less inadequate, adjective)

I'm listening to "Hejira" now, and I'm really into it! Her phrasing is incredible.

I've had only minor exposure to Mitchell in the past (her discography is somewhat intimidating), but I'm clearly going to have to spend some time with this, and see where it leads me.

At the risk of hyperbole, from Ladies of the Canyon to Mingus is one straight run of greatness, she barely puts a foot wrong.

No, you're dead right there.

Joni sighting:

A reunion for Joni and JT

Mark Shanahan
James Taylor was a long way from his home in the Berkshires this weekend, playing two shows at the venerable Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles. And there was something for everyone, from a rousing version of “Mockingbird” — on which opener Sheryl Crow performed the part sung by Carly Simon on the original 1974 recording — to classics such as “Sweet Baby James,” “Fire and Rain,” “You’ve Got a Friend,” “You Can Close Your Eyes,” and even “Something in the Way She Moves,” which JT played for Paul McCartney and George Harrison in 1968 before signing with Apple Records.

But the most precious moment took place off-stage: Singer Joni Mitchell, who’s become something of a recluse of late, made a rare public appearance to say hello to her old friend and onetime lover. The pair shared a tender embrace backstage, and despite reports of health problems in recent years, Mitchell looked terrific with her hair fixed in an exquisite fishtail braid.

have to say just looking at a list of James Taylor's hits make me realize how much I hate the sound of his records

James Taylor sucks as much as Joan Baez

hmm but neither of them suck?

I hate them both tbh, their voices are super-grating to my ears

I can def see how Baez' voice can seem grating but I can also hear how it's pretty perfect

anyway I only really listen to the songs from Sweet Baby James (except the embarrasing I'm a Steam Train song) and Carolina in My Mind, and with Baez I'm all about Diamonds and Rust

her autobio was p cool too

Larry Klein can go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.

Does it get better after Night Ride Home or should I call it a day?

y'all suck

what happened

Does it get better after Night Ride Home or should I call it a day?

― Category: Animist Rock (Matt #2), Tuesday, 12 June 2018 6:27 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It doesn't get better but I wouldn't go so far as saying you should call it a day.

Turbulent Indigo has its moments. No one much likes "Sex Kills" but I do.

"Sex Kills" is fine but the main issue with Turbulent Indigo is realising that Joni clearly thought the best song on Night Ride Home was "The Windfall (Everything for Nothing)".

I have to see this new film about her performance at the Isle of Wight festival 1970 where she calmed down a crowd of 600,000 people:
https://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2018/09/12/646751133/they-fed-me-to-the-beast-joni-mitchell-at-the-isle-of-wight-festival

Ooh nice. P sure I saw some of the footage of that in the Isle of Wight doc. Her pleas to the crowd are very moving and touching and the whole thing puts the woodstock generation in a very different light than woodstock (granted it's in a different country).

Isn't that the same festival where Leonard Cohen went on at 2am on the last night, and also calmed the crowd?
http://www.openculture.com/2012/10/leonard_cohen_brings_a_mob_back_from_the_brink_with_a_spellbinding_set_at_the_1970_isle_of_wight_festival.html

Cogent thoughts about JM's take on life x music interacting w author's take on the two-night musical birthday party & benefit for The Music Center---not usually into Powers' writing these days, but damn (maybe I better check out her new book)https://www.npr.org/2018/11/09/666148055/joni-mitchell-at-75-trouble-is-still-her-muse

Oof, the people at the very top of the thread arguing whether Joni Mitchell was "hot" or not. I guess 2001 was a long time ago...

Just came on here to express my love for Hejira. "Amelia" has been playing here on a loop for the past few days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeaO5UZ5OcI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxMwGTQ1bzU

Don't know if it's been posted already but this is a great recap of the genesis of 'Mingus'

That reminds me, while watching Pen15, I thought, "Hm, Maya's dad is supposed to be a drummer who makes his living...in a touring Steely Dan cover band? Something about that sounds off." Then I looked it up and hey! Her dad is Peter Erskine!

So I work in a WeWork facility. There’s music playing constantly in the common areas. A few days ago it must have been singer-songwriter day. Carey came on at one point. I don’t think it’s possible to concentrate on work while Joni is singing. Too good to fade into the background.