Is this anti-semitism?

xps yeah, I should have put "*perceived as* downplayed the significance", I know their position is more complex than that.

I’d be interested in hearing more of the complexity - I’m aware I’m in a bubble, but I’ve not heard anything to guide me away from their own view of themselves as the scourge of anti-semitism on the left.

O no a politically non-neutral site o no

don't act dense u understand 100%

soref's point about gathering momentum is a good one. you would hope that real action does happen now. they say mcnicol barred the institution of the chakraborti reforms. I'm not sure how much that is true, and how much is convenient scapegoating but lets hope formby can get her teeth into refreshing compliance and clear some of the backlog of cases. mcdonnell was making some positive noises too

re: complexity

In a statement last week, Jewdas accused the Board of Deputies, Jewish Leadership Council and the Jewish Labour Movement (JLM) of “playing a dangerous game with people’s lives”.

Allegations linking Mr Corbyn to anti-Semitism were “the work of cynical manipulations by people whose express loyalty is to the Conservative Party and the right wing of the Labour Party”, it said.

I can see how some ppl might interpret this as playing down the significance of Labour anti-semitism, but I agree it's misrepresenting them to suggest that they think the whole thing is a smear conjured up out of thin air

Well Corbyn is useless at anything to do with PR and the media, idiotic is a fair criticism, except this WAS a personal thing which got picked up by Guido Fawkes.

― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Wednesday, 4 April 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Its not that he's useless at PR/media - its that he is not even trying. As someone pointed out someone from the Lab centre-right would do a cynical photo-op with a more 'mainstream' Jewish group. Corbyn isn't - and he has got this far w/not playing that game. Why would he start now?

I read a couple of accounts by pro-Corbyn labour ppl at the passover and Corbyn was invited and fully engaged for the duration of the ceremony. That sounds far better to me than "listening to concerns". You know the lot that listen to concerns, don't you know? And where that has got us to.

i didn't see the headline but i did look at the jewdas website yesterday and they didn't seem militant to me

― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

more just snarky and irreverent

― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He gets one thing. *Beetroot emoji^

yes i only understand one thing about the history of radical left-wing movements in jewish history unlike you brilliant labour supporters who are all suddenly experts in the nuances of the jewish community and antisemitism

mordy did you see the Jewdas guide to combatting anti-semitism?

Never mind all that, how about opening a newspaper or two?

if he was really there in just a personal capacity why do any of us know about it??

xp

i personally know the guy who designed the mazel tov cocktail design they're selling on their website (tho we had a falling out a few years ago and have not spoken since). this is not some new phenomenon. i know these ppl (tho mostly the US contingency). i'm not choosing sides by saying they're out of step w/ most practicing jews. they say that themselves - that's their value. it's just not a great way to address concerns that most jews have when you hang out with a group that is hostile to most jewish community values. esp since so much of this discussion breaks down into "i dislike these jews because i don't like their position on israel" vs "i like these jews because i like their position on israel." it's asinine on both sides and corbyn is just playing that game not doing some brave new thing to address antisemitism or whatever.

(yes i saw the guide quite a while ago when it was first being passed around. iirc it was basically decent tho i disagreed w/ quite a few things in it.)

personally i feel much more at home with a group like Jewdas, but I realize my views are not particularly representative. I just think that a large proportion of Jews in the diaspora don't feel represented by or affinity with the mainstream orgs you mentioned, especially Jews under the age of like 50

the seder was obviously a political event i mean c'mon no matter who broke the story you don't invite corbyn to a non-political ritual event

what percentage of Jews would you describe as practicing?

good question. i'd have to look at the PEW polling to remember exactly what %# identifies as what but if you maintain some ritual observances / participate in one of the major denominations i'd consider you practicing. i don't think you need to be a zionist (tho the majority of identifying jews do consider themselves zionist). i don't think that if your participation is limited to attending the workman's circle or a bund group you're practicing tho (and historically participants in those groups wouldn't consider themselves practicing either).

this looks like better numbers about the religious votes in the 2017 election, but I'm curious about the historical numbers: http://www.brin.ac.uk/2017/religious-affiliation-and-party-choice-at-the-2017-general-election/

sounds like the Jewish shift to Tories started in at least 2005, but maybe Corbyn added to it. Doesn't seem really comparable to the historical ties between Jews and the Democratic Party.

that makes it look like jews are the most pro-con religious group in the country

Which they are. I believe Hindus are catching up as their community gets wealthier.

I suppose NI Proddies dutifully turn out to vote for the DUP but that's another thread.

http://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31064276_1756641954382381_5660464831078072320_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeEJFBis1yJ7ucX2F9oaUArNq70xlat-DVKk3wjsFqUOPNSfiuejdXFjGYaJfGvEFtuFhynX6Fd-5Zf49LMOmuwJcl7NgMYXDLpLUoUotFqCig&oh=061443ca112e57bf2ff16cda0d79de16&oe=5B651B59

I know this is meant to be a joke, but does this sort of stuff strike anyone else as being insensitive and ignorant of history? Unthinking of the suffering that the original generation of refugees must have been going through in 1948, after losing everything. I ask because this is not the first time this sort of stuff has been posted on Facebook by people who I thought would know better.

i think it's funny ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

it is ignorant at the least

its deliberately rude and insensitive but lots of ppl who know more about it than anyone on ilx wld say similar things so calling it "ignorance" is just supercilious hot air

it's been very... clarifying to witness the israeli government more or less abandon the diaspora and work overtime to minimize right-wing anti-semitism in pursuit of geopolitical advantage.

punchline: my right-wing congressman, whenever asked a question by or about a jewish constituent, will respond, and i paraphrase, "israel israel israel israel."

living out here is the boonies has been interesting. there are a lot of right-wingers who no doubt share the usual casually anti-semitic views (honestly, i haven't asked, but looking at the comments on the local paper's website is enough for me). and then there are my left-leaning colleagues who will condemn anti-semitism but make statements that shade into stereotypes and worse. because i'm opposed to netanyahu and the occupation they seem to think it's ok to say things like, "israel should be wiped off the face of the earth" to my face.

the closest thing to this i can recall is when i lived in eastern europe, frankly.

starting to feel like we don't have any real friends. a feeling no doubt familiar to my ancestors.

I am heartened to say that at least here in New York City I feel like I have real friends. The outpouring of solidarity has been heartening. And I do feel like some of the usual suspect Jewish right wingers in my facebook feed have been a little bit chastened or sheepish in the last couple of days.

you have colleagues who say that to you? wow. who do you work for, hezbollah?

xpost

no!

i don't want to exaggerate. only a few of them are like this, and only one person said made the remark i quoted. but the rest of them seem to countenance what seems to be some questionable opinions, to differing degrees.

sometimes i see posts by my colleagues' friends on social media and /their/ friends write the sort of screeds against "zionists" that are basically classic anti-semitic libels with the word "jew" removed. "netanyahu drinks the blood of palestinian children" is an example that made my jaw drop.

i'm not a zionist but whenever someone uses that word disparagingly i tense up, expecting the worst... in some cases i get a little too defensive.

yeah, I do generally understand that sort of rock-and-hard-place that you're describing and have been in it. Somehow it's not much part of my life today, much moreso when I was younger and maybe more hung out with people adjacent to my college friends instead of people whose kids go to the same school as mine. There's really not a huge amount of anti-Israel sentiment among mainstream American liberals, and certainly not much of the vitriol you're describing (and that tbf I have come across before).

There was a special service at our synagogue this morning. I didn't go, but my wife tells me there was significant support from local places of worship. Christians, Muslims and so on. There was apparently a police presence, too, for what that's worth, and the police, who many thanked for being there, were very sympathetic and sorry that they had to be there at all.

i went to a special service last night. TBH the rabbi didn't have much to say but it was good to be in the company of other jews. there were a few pastors & priests from other (non-jewish) congregations.

no police presence whatsoever which surprised me. they have an armed guard on high holidays. maybe it was too short notice.

one of the things you sometimes hear from folks around here, both left and right and whatever else, is that Jews are "fine" or "OK." as in, "Israel is a real problem, but Jews are fine." "you guys are OK, it's really the...." this sense that we are "fine" as in "tolerated, for now" connects for me with the overwhelmingly christian religiosity of the folks around here. they know that anti-semitism is bad, and/or tacky, but deep down they believe we're going to hell and would be better off converting to christianity. it's just their main priority right now.

i'm trying hard not to be paranoid.

*it's just NOT their main priority right now.

Nice story from our temple:

Following the last few dark days, there was a bit of light in the office yesterday: a woman came into the office carrying a bunch of yellow carnations. They symbolize hope, she said.
She is from Peru, is not Jewish, but felt she had to express both her horror at what happened and support for American Jews. She went on to explain, as her tears fell, that she has lived in the US for 18 years, finally has her green card, and is hoping for citizenship in another five. After many hugs and wishes for an easy path to citizenship, she left, and I felt incredibly grateful for that brief, touching encounter.

Not anti-semitism.

yesterday in north wales, pa a friend of friends' car was spraypainted with a swastika. today during his lunch break someone wrote 'Jew' on a coworker's car. this was today in: wtf is happening this is all too close to home.

definitely anti semitism

Ugh. I thought, that doesn't sound like North Wales? Then I realized it was Pennslyvania. In the US, where Jews feel safe.

goddammit

https://pitchfork.com/news/ilana-glazer-event-canceled-due-to-anti-semitic-graffiti/

my synagogue has announced that doors will now be locked during shabbat service, i get why they're doing it and i would guess some members of my shul want it, but i don't like it. it feels like giving in to the idea that we should accept this as OUR problem which requires US to change what we do.

when they fuck with ilana glazer that is too fucking far

kinda w eephus, my instinct is not to be defensive but to carry on unbowed

our synagogue (and the other one we sometimes attend) has had an armed guard stationed at the entrance for a few years now

that's different

are they locking the door in addition to having a guard or as a replacement? how are people going to get in who come late?

^^^srsly

wouldn't join any shul whose services started on time

Ugh. I thought, that doesn't sound like North Wales?

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/man-golliwog-hanging-noose-window-14596570

No, they're just racists.