"Wonderwall": I Don't Get It

Am I allowed to criticize the couplet By now you should've somehow / Realized what you're not to do on the grounds that "what you're not to do" is totally forced and phony diction?

― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Monday, 2 April 2018 19:03 (two days ago)

I have no desire to be Capn Saveanoel but "realised what you're not to do" feels Mancunian to me rather than forced, fwiw.

But you're absolutely allowed to criticise it as forced, of course.

yes, they've been chosen because the songwriter liked the sound of them but also because Gallagher is a limited guitarist. I mean - none of this is difficult to comprehend.

Are you still alive? Noel Gallagher is not a 'limited guitarist', you clown - unless you're comparing him to Allan Holdsworth or something. Stop digging, man - you don't know anything about music, you're ignorant, talk about something else.

Finding the discussion of the internal logic / semantic coherence of the song pretty funny - the point of Oasis lyrics is how you feel in the instant you're singing that line for that moment, and entirely forgotten by the time you get to the next line.

If that's right (I don't really get the point of Oasis in general so I'm happy to take your word for it) it's a pretty spectacular lyrical trick to pull off again and again, I think.

(Because people really do seem to *feel* the lyrics, I mean.)

COuld be that he's a lazy and limited lyric writer. Just sayin' like.

These serious (and agressive) exchanges about an Oasis song's lyrics and chords are puzzling...
Especially about this awful song !
I like a lot of some early Oasis (basically the first album + some songs on the second and some b-sides) but have always hated "Wonderwall", even when it was just released and not yet that huge anthem.
I think even Liam dislikes that song !

Noel is a lazy and limited lyricist who sometimes stumbles upon something good, which also sums up his ability as a guitarist, tbh.

Or Tom D's posting style.

lol @ all the "lazy" talk. makes me think back to the toxic cesspit Steam message boards w the angry gamers ranting about "lazy devs". about the same level of thought given as well.

(xp) You're also hopeless at zings, I wouldn't bother trying tbh.

It’s someone who doesn’t understand how they feel trying to express how they feel despite not having the tools to do so.

this is a v sympathetic description.

a collection of cliches that add up to nothing

This is what everything is, though.
― valorous wokelord (silby), Monday, 2 April 2018 21:52 (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^gets it

Yesterday, I got to hear "Don't look back in anger" which is a mighty case in point.

See, the whole chorus manages to stay on topic! And if only the rest of the song managed to do that, it'd be a massively (oh what's the word - Successful? well, it's been massively successful so no. anyway..) song.

the point of Oasis lyrics is how you feel in the instant you're singing that line for that moment, and entirely forgotten by the time you get to the next line.

Anyway, I thought the "So, Sally can wait..." was the key line on that one, but that was suggested by Liam!

Noel Gallagher is not a 'limited guitarist', you clown - unless you're comparing him to Allan Holdsworth or something.

I'd be fine with using that as a comparison, or even with calling him a limited guitarist, but, running over this quickly this morning, I will say that using a pedal point on E - the natural minor seventh scale degree of F#m - makes the progression a lot more interesting than it would be otherwise. (Obv, he wasn't so limited that he couldn't play a standard chord progression without this sort of pedal point, as he did on "Don't Look Back in Anger".) There's an interesting and imo effective disconnect between the chords and the melody line in the first part of the verse, where the prominent notes in the melody are often not even part of the underlying harmony until the "I don't believe that anybody..." refrain. This is the first time that E, the pedal, comes up as a significant note in the verse melody and it works to highlight this. The resolution to F# on the last note of that refrain ("now") arrives on the F#m7 chord, which is the first time a line resolves to a chord root, let alone the tonic that is implied by the chord progression.

Exactly as I said... errrr. Sorry for being a bit irritable on this thread, but claiming that the pedal point is being used in this, and other, songs because the songwriter is too lazy to move his fingers a couple of centimetres, or too limited to play the first chords any guitarist learns when they learn to play a guitar, is too egregious a display of ignorance of how guitar playing and songwriting work that I couldn't let it pass especially when it's doubled down repeatedly.

This is such a weird discussion. I don't even hear a guitar in the song.

It's made a vital contribution to an ongoing 51ing scenario.

I'd be fine with using that as a comparison, or even with calling him a limited guitarist, but, running over this quickly this morning, I will say that using a pedal point on E - the natural minor seventh scale degree of F#m - makes the progression a lot more interesting than it would be otherwise.

I couldn't agree more!

(Obv, he wasn't so limited that he couldn't play a standard chord progression without this sort of pedal point, as he did on "Don't Look Back in Anger".)

Well, I never once said that he couldn't play a standard chord progression - I merely pointed out that he uses these type of chords a lot, which he does! Gallagher, by his own admission, is a limited guitarist and I agree with him. In the big scheme of things he undoubtedly is, and his musical vocabulary is painfully small, although he throws in the occasional surprise from time to time (such as the second chord in the chorus to 'Let There Be Love')

Tom's just frustrated with himself at this stage and lashing out, bless him.

Using pedal tone is fine as long as you're not a fake funk band.

xxpost:

Or the diminished chord in 'Don't Look Back In Anger'

Too Lazy to Funk. Good song title!

(xp) Awwww, he knows the name of a chord, ain't it cute?

"Too Lazy to F**k" by Prince

One of the best things about Turrican is the inevitable point where 90% of what he has said has been stricken down and made fun of and it inevitably turns out the last 10% is just something he has read somewhere that he repeats without really understanding it.

x-post lol

Not half as cute as being asked if I'm still alive by someone acting like they're having a coronary, but don't hesitate to grow up, Tom. It's okay to be wrong.

Good to also see Frederik's usual textbook late entry into the thread where he fires off nonsense and does his Scrappy Doo routine.

I love that you use 'textbook' as an insult. As if you deserve anything better but the basics.

The definition of insanity is to write the same thing over and over and expect a different response.

Who's the Liam of the thread, d'yathink?

I know who the Bonehead is.

So do I: Most Retarded-Looking Family Stone Member on the Cover of "A Whole New Thing"

But how limited a guitarist was Bonehead anyway? Let's ask an expert...

As for Frederik - well, I rest my case. Still more coherent than his political posts, too.

That's it, give it your best shot, dumbo, it's the almost entertaining.

I know what'll happen when the petrol-drenched man finally flicks his Bic but I can't peel my eyes away from the spectacle.

I dunno, I suppose "dumbo" is a slight step up from calling someone a [redacted].

Not a step up in your case however.

Almost damning with faint praise in fact.

Wouldn't know. You seem to have form, though!

Par for the course, there's not a lot you do know.

He is implying you have big ears, Turrican.

A trunk and big doleful eyes.

sund4r as usual the only person who actually knows what the fuck he's talking about makes an interesting, reasonable post but no one bothers to digest it

Pretty much.

How dare you suggest I don't know what I'm talking about (digs up something you wrote in your high school newspaper as bizarre attempt at ad hominem retort)!

I just checked on Spotify and it's impressive that "Wonderwall" has 3 times more plays than their second most played, "DLBIA" (440M/145M), considering it was only #2 and "DLBIA" was #1 (UK charts).
I suppose that belongs in the thread about songs that were not the biggest hit but the most popular now !

I can attest that 'Wonderwall' was much bigger in the states, at least.

thought Oasis had a track called "DLBIA (440M/145M)" for a minute there and got all excited