Serial - the podcast *spoilers*

Or else he's backpedaling from that theory but trying to save face, not sure which.

You're wrong because it's still important even if he's guilty.

And it's important because the bad prosecution led to questions, leading to the podcast, leading to the media circus.

This idea, that miscarriages of justice are okay if only the people it happens to are in fact guilty, this idea is bad. This should not be controversial. Also, according to the law, people are innocent until proven guilty, which means that prosecutorial misconduct ALWAYS happens to innocent people.

yeah, of course shoddy prosecutions are bad, but I tend to feel time and attention spent on overturning the conviction of a guilty person (guilty not in the technically legal sense, but in the actually-killed-someone sense) on such grounds in something that should be left to a legal team and family members of the convicted. Anyone else expending effort on such a thing is kind of perverse. Basically the circus around this is fucked up and people have themselves to blame, not just the prosecutor.

You're using "innocent" equivocally. There's legally innocent, and then there's whether he actually did it or not. I mean I very much believe in the presumption of innocence, but the point of it is to make sure people who actually are factually innocent don't go to jail. We're supposed to err on that side, and yes, I think that generally that's a good thing. But just as a human being, I can't *actually* be pleased to see an obvious murderer get out of jail and never admit to his crime due to the fact that he has an obsessive fan club and due to the ironically lucky break that his counsel is dead and not here to explain why she never interviewed an alibi witness.

Good to see Frederik wackiness unchanged in 3 or 4 years since initial airing.

xx-post: I quite like discussing this with you, much more than man alive, but I still think you're wrong. Very much wrong. Overturning shoddy convictions is important, even for the guilty, and people doing that hard work should be applauded, not called perverse. Someone might have killed a person, but it wasn't premeditated, so the sentence is too strict (this could also very well be the case with Adnan, btw). Or perhaps he is a psychopathic murderer, but he is sentenced to death in a jurisdiction where only black people ever get the death penalty.

Also, in the big picture, is America is going to get something done with mass incarceration, a lot of difficult discussions need to be had. Violent offenders need to be let out. Even without getting into any other questions, there needs to be a discussion of whether or not it's right to send an 18-year old killer to jail for life without parole.

Violent offenders need to be let out.

fuck no.

National discussion. done and done.

I actually agree about that. Maybe 20 years is a long enough sentence for a single murder committed as a 17-year-old. But if we're so concerned about process, I no more want to see him let out for the "wrong reasons" than you want to see him convicted for the "wrong reasons." And I'd like to see him admit his crime.

Sentences for violent offenders are generally too long and there's evidence that most people "age out" of violence.

I think there are a lot better cases to argue for the inequity in the American criminal justice system than this one.

Ultimately the whole miscarriage question hinges on whether it’s terribly credible that Adnan did not commit this murder. In my opinion (as it appears for many others) it’s not because at the end of the day shifting timelines or not no one has come up for a reasonable explanation than the one Jay/the prosecution presented at trial.

Compared to other countries, that 20-year sentence is extremely harsh. Also, I don't think it's 'wrong reasons', nobody is planting evidence or coaching Asia McClain. I'm frustrated by the arbitrariness of it all, I think we agree on that, but it's not comparable to the shoddy prosecution.

well, fwiw my unhealthy obsession with this case is now back, and I really need to get away from it. I'm reading the reddit subs again, it's just awful. Admittedly, I think part of why this case is so compelling is that it's such a strange story however you slice it, whether you think he's guilty or innocent. I mean just the fact that he loaned Jay his car and phone for the day, that's such a fucking weird thing to do whether it was for trying to create an alibi, trying to create an excuse to ask a ride from Hae, or no reason related to any crime, it's just a weird thing to do. So much strange behavior on everyone's part, chalk it up to them being teenagers who were high all the time I guess.

I really hope I'm past the stage in life where there's no risk of the weird things I did as a teenager get dragged into a murder trial.

Don't go on the reddit sub. It's bad even in comparison to other reddit subs.

https://variety.com/2018/digital/news/serial-season-3-premiere-date-podcast-1202927015/

So S3 of Serial will be, um, not serial:

Instead of telling a single story over the course of the show, as the first two seasons did, the third run will follow many different stories with some spanning two or even three episodes.

sound potentially v good though

first episode seems promising. kind of low-stakes. a bit more like Embedded or a Propublica podcast.

or Reveal?

First episode is really good and enraging in it's own small way. Much less is at stake than in the Adnan trial, but because of that it's also much better at just examining how deeply systemic the unfairness of the justice system is. That was always what was the best part of season 1, the way it showed Adnan to have been railroaded and the prosecution to have been flawed, separately from the question of guilt - though it's understandable that drove most of the hype.

this has been enjoyable enough

today's one was pretty harrowing

Wow, fuck judge Gaul

i know. try paying a PI to even find out the judge's address, you won't

Season 3 ended today. Very good overall, but why only 9 episodes after a 30 month break between seasons? I'm always a little confounded by this show.

Because each episode cost approx 6 brazillion dollars

New HBO series The Case Against Adnan Syed:

https://decider.com/2019/03/05/the-case-against-adnan-syed-serial-director-interview/

Rabia was saying [during the panel] how every wrongful conviction is an unsolved case. Do you feel like, at the end of this, we’re closer to solving Hae Min Lee’s murder than we were before?

I think we’re closer to the truth but I think that, when police detectives investigate a case with tunnel vision on one suspect only, it leaves so many questions. So, I don’t think that there’s a way to actually know what happened, but I think we’re much closer to the truth.

hard pass

oh yes, please find us a suspect about whose guilt there will not be "so many questions."

this case could definitely benefit from another deep-dive in the media whose conclusions can be summed up as *shrug emoji*, thx hbo

This case has about as many unexplored angles as the JFK assassination

oh god the director sounds like such a run-of-the-mill idiot

‘Serial’ subject Adnan Syed’s murder case will not be heard by Supreme Court
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-cr-adnan-syed-supreme-court-20191125-5ykt2ec3qzarjlnivxusegd2um-story.html

Maybe there's a better thread for this, but has anyone been listening to Serial Productions' Nice White Parents podcast? Very mixed feelings about it so far.

i haven’t yet. what’s your feeling about it?

Today is a big day for Adnan and everyone who has been fighting for him! A DNA motion has been filed seeking testing of the victim Hae Min Lee's clothing and shoes and the rape kit. Items that HAVE NEVER BEEN TESTED BEFORE. This could literally lead to the killer. ALSO...
1/ pic.twitter.com/mNMICFUHTB

— rabia O'chaudry (@rabiasquared) March 10, 2022

He killed her

It's been so long now that I don't even care that much if he gets out, except that it would be nice if he at least admitted it

FWIW, even if his DNA shows up, I guarantee Rabia and co have a pre-planned explanation for why that doesn't mean anything.

otm

In a motion filed on Wednesday, prosecutors are asking for Mr Syed to receive a fresh trial, while not stating that they believe him to be innocent, according to The Wall Street Fournal.

"However, for all the reasons set forth below, the State no longer has confidence in the integrity of the conviction," stated the office of Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby in the court filing.

The Wall Street Onenal
The Wall Street Twonal
The Wall Street Threenal
The Wall Street Fournal

Ha - that's an artefact of iOS Safari not letting me select the paragraphs I wanted leading me to screenshot it and use the OCR in Photos to grab the text. But the Independent font has funny italicized Js that look like Fs.

Jesus, the details of what the state is disclosing sound awfully damning:

The new motion said prosecutors on the case decades ago knew there was another suspect who threatened to kill Lee, Syed’s ex-girlfriend, and neglected to disclose the information to defense attorneys — committing what’s known as a Brady violation.

...

A year-long investigation conducted by prosecutors and Syed’s attorney uncovered new evidence, including that “alternative suspects” either engaged in serial rape and sexual assault or attacked a woman in a vehicle, the documents show. Prosecutors’ motion also says that Lee’s vehicle was located near a home associated with of the alternative suspects.

...

Prosecutors wrote one of the alternative suspects was violent toward a woman and “forcibly confined her” before Syed’s trial. After Syed’s trial, one of the suspects attacked a woman in her vehicle and was convicted of that crime. One of the alternative suspects was convicted in connection to multiple rapes and sexual assaults, conducted in a “systemic, deliberate and premeditated way.”

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-prosecutors-move-to-vacate-adnan-syed-sentence-20220914-uinmd6pa45cqbfj4fwyvac2tb4-story.html

a little hard to believe tbh -- with all of the attention and investigation devoted to the case, no one previously noticed that there was a serial rapist who threatened Hae's life? Or are they talking about two different "alternative suspects," one who threatened her life and another who was a serial rapist? And how did the prosecutors even find out that this death threat had happened unless someone else besides Hae was aware of it?

BTW, what happened with the DNA testing back in March -- does that typically take this long to come out?

Baltimore Sun reporter is livetweeting from court

With Phinn denying Kelly's motion, it makes it more likely she will rule on Syed today. However, to be absolutely clear, she does NOT have to rule from the bench. She can take time if she wants.

— Lee Sanderlin (@LeeOSanderlin) September 19, 2022

Is the actual motion to vacate available to read somewhere?