DRAMA by Yes: Lost Classic or Justified Dud?

It's on the t0rr3nt sites

is this it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4iDzO2ZJfo

"Believe Again" from Heaven and Earth came up on a mix for me yesterday and sounded great even if it's not chops-oriented and progressive.

honestly I think a number of the songs on H&E are decent - I don't really mind how lightweight they are, Yes has always been like that

what gets me is how lethargic and strung out everything is. "Believe Again" is quite pretty but eight minutes is pushing it real hard. the tempos sound like they're 25% too slow. the members of the band sound like they're all 200 years old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBp1OP7j82E

Yes has always been lightweight?

I mean, they’ve always had that aspect to them. Obviously Yes at their best are heavy as balls.

To Be Over, bitches

Thanks for the youtube link. Liked this return trip a lot. "Bumpy Ride" still doesn't fit - if anything has gotten clumsier here - and "Fly From Here (Reprise)" failed to move me in this version. Otherwise, a successful re-boot. Well done, Mr Horn.

And...the link is gone.

Also, this post didn't date so well:

chris squire and keith richards will outlive us all

I'm listening to it now. This does sound really great, though to be fair I haven't listened to the original in about a year so I'm not sure how exactly this one is different. The best thing I can say is that you often forget you're listening to a later-day Yes album, it really does feel like it could've been released in 1981.

I have been listening to the 2011 release of Fly From Here a ton this week since I don’t have the new one and it isn’t on Spotify. And I have to say: it really rules. I don’t get the folks who are down on “Bumpy Ride” at all – it’s a nice little instrumental bit that sounds like it dates from the early 70s and at 2 min. pretty brief.

Also, read or saw somewhere that Trevor had laid down guide vocals in 2011 and instructed Benoit to follow them *exactly* – which makes me wonder how much Horn’s vocals from the new version are actually new or just cleaned up things he recorded back then.

I ASKED MY LOVE TO GIVE ME SHE-HE-HE-HELTER!!!

love this album. been on a big Yes kick this week - and weirdly found out my friends steve's dad co-engineered FRAGILE omg

my favorite yes album

xpost - woah what is his name?

I'm glad that over the past 25 or 30 years the reputation of this album has been elevated. I don't think anyone considers this a dud anymore.

I think of this as the last album of the original prog-rock movement, before any revivals, reunions or neo-prog pastiches (I'd also entertain votes for Moving Pictures, which came out the next year). The sound of the album is already on its way to AOR, and (unsurprisingly, considering the lineup) contains a fair amount of new wave, but something about the energy and boldness of this record makes me feel like it was the last shot of the original "progressive" aesthetic that originated in the late 60s.
Discipline, Peter Gabriel III, and what I've heard of Abacab and the 80s Tull records feel like part of another genre rather than a natural development of progressive rock (although I guess real hardliners would say the last progressive Yes album was Relayer).

I'd argue it's Going for the One!

Yeah, GftO, which is also the last Yes album I listen to. Moving Pictures definitely seems like a different aesthetic than Aqualung or Pawn Hearts to me, no less than Discipline.

You don't have to like Tormato very much to argue that, generically, it still ticks the boxes as a prog-rock record (maybe except for "Circus of Heaven" and "Onward").
I haven't heard the first Asia album but I really doubt it contains as much guitar heroism as Drama does.

like I wouldn't argue Drama is the last of the original prog wave, but "Tempus Fugit" maybe the last prog *tune*...the rest sounds too New Wave hybrid to me, not too unlike a bunch of similar acts...Numan, Devo, Oingo Boingo, The Buggles of course

the thing about a lot of those 77/78 releases - Tormato, And Then There Were Three, Missing Piece, Quiet Zone/Pleasure Dome, Works & Love Beach, even Attahk (if that counts?) is that these bands all seem to be trying to transition away from prog, by simplifying things or writing shorter/hookier tunes. none of it pushes any boundaries. I guess you could argue that Trick of the Tail and GftO didn't push any boundaries either but they still felt like a full embrace of the prog sound - these albums "tick the boxes" because they didn't know what else to do

Full disclosure: I've never listened to Tormato.xps

UK were maybe the first newer band to transition from 70s prog to the looming 80s version - various Yes/King Crimson/Roxy Music alumni (plus Holdsworth) moving into late 70s pop-muso territory. Seems like a template for the Drama sound, although I'm not sure if they were a direct influence on Yes in that period.

Tormato's really bad

I'll stan for Tormato again, I love it. Very fun.

It's kinda cool how the tail end of prog and new wave dovetailed so nicely, and the early 80's second wave of acts had a healthy dose of new wave threaded through them.

Gentle Giant's 'Civilian' was one of the more successful prog-into-new wave efforts, not that it did them any good whatsoever. We can only be thankful ELP didn't attempt anything similar.

They went sexytimes, instead.

It's kinda cool how the tail end of prog and new wave dovetailed so nicely, and the early 80's second wave of acts had a healthy dose of new wave threaded through them.

Yeah, I sometimes want to wonder why Howe didn't just make e.g. instrumental folk or jazz fusion records instead of ... this stuff and Asia in the 80s but then I remember that they were actually mainstream pop stars when they were making the classic prog albums; makes sense that once you're in that orbit, you want to stay in it.

I guess I feel that, despite Horn and Downes, the new wave quotient on Drama is actually lower than on some of the other transitional records of the same era. I'd say hard-rock verging on metal is the dominant sound on well over half of it.
UK's first album is a very interesting example because, sonically, they are going in a stripped-down, radio-ready direction, but Eddie Jobson's compositional style is very oblique and far from catchy (explaining why the record didn't really take off). I would call them the last "new" prog band of the first era.

tormato is grebt bcz it inspired this post: The 120 Days of Shameless Bids for Publicity!

I only listened to Bill Nelson's 'Quit Dreaming...' for the first time the other day and it's fantastic, I know people talk a lot about 'Red Noise', but this was, to me, much more enjoyable and super new wave.

I've probably said it somewhere upthread but there's 2 tracks that really damage Drama for me, I really like the album but they're just filler. I honestly like Tormato a bit more, especially with the CD bonus tracks, there's some songs that ended up on Anderson's 2nd solo album that work amazingly well with just his vocals.

And YES to what Autumn says about Wakeman creating a great vehicle pileup in space!

The only Yes album I own or want to own, and absolutely a classic.

Yeah, I sometimes want to wonder why Howe didn't just make e.g. instrumental folk or jazz fusion records instead of ... this stuff and Asia in the 80s but then I remember that they were actually mainstream pop stars when they were making the classic prog albums; makes sense that once you're in that orbit, you want to stay in it.

its kind of hard to name artists who achieved that level of success who just fucked off and did what they wanted rather than chase sales. its pretty funny in the case of these prog bands who just suddenly became very uncool, massive respect to Genesis (and Trevor Rabin) for actually doing it. I also thought Gentle Giant's Civilian was quite good, but lets face it nothing was ever happening to this band, at best they get like 25% of the sales of Utopia

won't really defend Tormato much but I will say "Arriving UFO" is one of the most bonkers things they ever did

"Arriving UFO" was Jon Anderson making sure that Klaatu and Jefferson Airplane didn't get all the credit when the aliens landed.

every time I listen to this album it hits me how great it would've been had Yes just called it a day after this. they could've still done the 90125 stuff under Cinema or whatever the original name was supposed to be but to leave "Tempus Fugit" as the last song in their catalogue would have been perfect.

Atlantic Records wasn't going to let such a valuable trademark go unused.

they have several spots in their history when it would have been wise to stop: here; after 90125; after Big Generator; after Magnification; after Fly from Here. The only thing you can count on is that they will not stop and will continue to put out albums that half their fanbase detests

I still love this record.

"Also wonder whether Horn’s wife passing had an impact on him deciding to “rejoin the band.” Tempus Fugit indeed."

haha, my read on this was "horn's wife hated Yes so much that as soon as she died he was like, "cool, now I can be in Yes again!"

they have several spots in their history when it would have been wise to stop: here; after 90125; after Big Generator; after Magnification; after Fly from Here. The only thing you can count on is that they will not stop and will continue to put out albums that half their fanbase detests

after Talk might've been a good one too. I think they made some pretty decent albums in their nostalgia phase but I'm struggling to think of a single tune other than "The Ladder" (which fucking rocks) that would fit on a "best of" compilation

I'm not an expert in their later era but I do like "Mind Drive".

I think there are a few pretty good songs on Magnification, dunno if I'd slot them as 'best of all time' though. Into the Storm belongs on a best of though.

both the long tracks on the KTA albums remind me of Tales, where the cool bits are almost but not quite good enough to justify the length

the thing is with Talk they were at least trying to do something different and evolve their sound somehow, which made the proggier bits actually pretty cool. since then they've become a zombie band where the new records are basically irrelevant - even if they are fairly decent they are all kinda forgettable and the songs from them get dropped from the setlist the moment the album release cycle is over. none of it adds a thing to the band's legacy. obviously there have been a lot of bands in that position but Yes have been in this mode for so long it's become a major side story for them, particularly in some of the ridiculous lineups they've been trotting out this last decade. at this point you wonder what has to happen...does Yes die with Howe or do they just keep on truckin' somehow?

Steve Howe will never die so the point is moot

If howe kicks it soon and it's before Anderson I think Anderson would get the Yes naming rights (he already got the end of that ARW tour to be booked as Yes) and I could see him trying to squeeze another tour out of it with Rabin and whoever else they can get to join them. If Howe kicks it after Anderson I can totally see Sherwood helming this zombie band for another 25 years.

Looking at the Wikipedia entry for this album and holy shit if this isn't the most pathetic, passive-aggressive band dynamic:

In June 1979, the Yes line-up of Jon Anderson, Chris Squire, Steve Howe, Rick Wakeman, and Alan White completed their 1978–1979 tour in support of Tormato. The five reconvened in November 1979 to start work on a new album. After the various problems they faced while recording Tormato, Yes decided to work in Paris with Roy Thomas Baker to oversee its production.[3] Anderson and Wakeman entered the sessions with enthusiasm and wrote more material together than they had before, but the rest of the band felt the songs were too light and folk-oriented and started writing more aggressive and direct arrangements.[3] The growing internal differences, described by Anderson as a "loss of respect for each other", led to Squire, Howe, White and Baker coming to sessions late, which discouraged Anderson and Wakeman, the latter at times refusing to leave his hotel room to rehearse.[4] Conversely, Howe recalls Wakeman frequently throwing peanuts at White's drum kit during takes of a song he was getting tired of, which in addition to being very noisy and distracting through the other members' headphones took considerable effort to clean up.[5]

Anderson and Wakeman left the studio to drink Calvados in a bar; in Wakeman's words: "Jon and I got really quite depressed and started crying on each other's shoulders and Jon said 'This is not the band that I love, this is not the band that I wanted to keep on going', [and I replied] 'I'm with you, Jon'".[4] The sessions were ultimately called off after White cracked a bone in his right ankle while roller skating with Richard Branson in a nightclub, rendering him unable to perform for about six weeks.[6][7] Following a break over Christmas, the band reconvened in London for rehearsals in an attempt to salvage the situation. They failed, and Anderson and Wakeman left in March 1980.[8]

Had to have been hell, imagine wrapping up on Close to the Edge and saying "hm pretty cool guys but Imma go hang out with Robert Fripp now, he seems fun peace out"