XXXTentacion - ?

that said, i'm not sure i'd say that it's a good thing for there to be such little writing about an artist like xxxtentacion, and for even thinking critically about his music to be considered a moral transgression

yeah, like, assuming the "critical thinking" is not "this man is amazing and a great person and everyone should emulate him," the only "moral transgression" argument I can think of is that writing about him boosts his signal. but that bridge was crossed long, long ago, and compared to the legions of teenagers listening to him and the industry support, a blog post or whatever is a drop in the bucket.

I would argue that the fact that you don't think there's anything to talk about with a Meghan Trainor or Jason Derulo record, or that their popularity "doesn't say anything about music or society," means that you need to think harder. You're claiming that mumbly nihilistic teenage bullshit "says something about society" but the music that non-teenagers listen to doesn't, but society is not exclusively made up of teenagers. And I doubt your readership is. (I don't know where you're employed as an editor, sorry.) I would argue that writing about xxxtentacion is, in fact, the lazy choice, and that if you really wanted to spend time seriously analyzing popular culture, you'd analyze it in its uncool/off-trend/selling-but-to-the-"wrong"-people aspects.

"this has been a systemic problem in pop/rock/rap?? crit since forever, this wordsworth/blake garbage where the zeal of the teen is elevated to some projected ideal critical stance"

my perception is that real-time analytics have made this stance a lot more prominent / transparent but i could be projecting

and there's certainly lots to talk about with trainor and derulo wrt the shape-shifting of what attitudes make the "songs you can listen to at the office" cut

society is not exclusively made up of teenagers

ok, but a) neither is xxxtentacion's entire listenership and b) an artist's fanbase being composed primarily of teenagers, in and of itself, does not make that artist not worth coverage.

i def want to be more like the demographic that watches pewdiepie videos, waits around all day outside streetwear stores and jacks off constantly

the assumption that the teenager is the default pop music audience was always around (hi dick clark) but imo it really took hold in the late '90s/early '00s, when britney backstreet pink et al hip-checked celine and her cohort and made room for them in adult contemporary radio. from then on it was all over.

I would argue that the fact that you don't think there's anything to talk about with a Meghan Trainor or Jason Derulo record, or that their popularity "doesn't say anything about music or society," means that you need to think harder. You're claiming that mumbly nihilistic teenage bullshit "says something about society" but the music that non-teenagers listen to doesn't, but society is not exclusively made up of teenagers. And I doubt your readership is. (I don't know where you're employed as an editor, sorry.) I would argue that writing about xxxtentacion is, in fact, the lazy choice, and that if you really wanted to spend time seriously analyzing popular culture, you'd analyze it in its uncool/off-trend/selling-but-to-the-"wrong"-people aspects.

― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:27 AM (six minutes ago) Bookmark

you're misreading my posts as me endorsing a worldview instead of just thinking out loud. (i wrote a piece about shawn mendes on friday that was partly about how he's essentially uncovered by critics.) i'm saying that when critics at large ignore an artist (and if we're talking about pop artists here, it's usually artists who are popular but not HUGE and just kind of bland w/o any sense of auteurism or innovation) then, collectively, writers are basically saying "there's not much interesting here to talk about." again, i'm not saying that's right -- depending on the artist i might agree, but generally i'd actually say it's wrong (a discussion for another thread is that certain ppl bemoan the poptimist bent of modern music writing when plenty of pop music is actually completely ignored -- i'm just pointing out that it's a different motivation entirely than asking people to consciously opt out of a discussion on a moral level.

there's also the question of what people mean by "coverage." reviews? positive reviews? front-page hagiographic profiles? blog posts about the prosecution? (there's an argument to be made -- plenty of people have made it -- that it's even less defensible, in a parasitic kind of way, not to cover someone's music but to cover his horrifying behavior and ensuing legal issues)

i def want to be more like the demographic that watches pewdiepie videos, waits around all day outside streetwear stores and jacks off constantly

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:35 AM (six minutes ago) Bookmark

you just did a whole interview with juicy j about how the streetwear jacker offers have helped revive one of his most misogynistic songs so i wouldn't pretend as if you're above this

certain ppl bemoan the poptimist bent of modern music writing when plenty of pop music is actually completely ignored

Because deliberately ignoring the highest charting pop songs to talk about lesser known pop songs that could conceivably crack the top 50 or whatever is still trading one form of pop for another, thus confirming, once again, its insuperable hegemony. Like you said, though, it's a discussion for another thread.

probably worth pointing out here that "Sad!" is currently #7 on the Hot 100

An anthropological interest in why certain albums hit #1 and connect (i.e. Greatest Showman) isn't an endorsement, and I though this was clear.

I kinda like the two new Shawn Mendes songs :(

An anthropological interest in why certain albums hit #1 and connect (i.e. Greatest Showman) isn't an endorsement, and I though this was clear.

True on a case-by-case basis. But when a consistent pattern of coverage and non-coverage emerges over the course of years, endorsement (of a particular narrative, if not necessarily specific artists) can be pretty easily inferred.

Because deliberately ignoring the highest charting pop songs to talk about lesser known pop songs that could conceivably crack the top 50 or whatever is still trading one form of pop for another, thus confirming, once again, its insuperable hegemony. Like you said, though, it's a discussion for another thread.

― pomenitul, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 10:46 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark

eh it's really about a perversion of poptimism where the concept just becomes "covering the every move of the 15 most famous celebrity musicians in america" but again it would be a little on the nose to turn this thread into a discussion about poptmism

when a consistent pattern of coverage and non-coverage emerges over the course of years, endorsement (of a particular narrative, if not necessarily specific artists) can be pretty easily inferred.

although it doesn't rankle me as much as it does unperson, I think this is correct -- the coverage given isn't ever just a reflection of the listenership's needs. that narrative -- "what gets the coverage is what people are interested in" -- is a weirdly market-capitalist claim tbh.

i do think there are very popular artists who are weird and culty and very popular artists who are much closer to the creative zeitgeist of popular music, but yes that logic can become circular

still i suspect more artists in hip hop are going to take ideas from this than wont, regardless of how publications treat this

i do think there are very popular artists who are weird and culty and very popular artists who are much closer to the creative zeitgeist of popular music, but yes that logic can become circular

https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/YCfUen3KBlDdUBOOQ_1QrAwnWYE/fit-in/2048xorig/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2018/01/29/980/n/1922398/tmp_XRCCA9_ad13a8ab9fb5560d_GettyImages-911548280.jpg

i assume you're just making a logic joke but hes p far from the zeitgeist, he's a successful branding exercise building on the (zeitgeist-adjacent) creative innovations of more relevant artists

his glasses are circular though

This is way off-topic, but how were there not already like a zillion backpack rappers named Logic before that guy came along?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Logic

Well, as I recently rediscovered while trying to listen to “The Warning” on Apple Music, there was a house act on Strictly Rhythm who later had to rebrand as New York Logic:
https://www.discogs.com/artist/15177-Logic

it took me way too long to realize that wasn't anthony fantano

^^^ That's who I thought it was, too.

wait it's not?

deej otm. The next generation will probably emulate xxx, but they probably won't emulate logic. That's why we can't afford to think xxx out of existence. It's also, to a certain extent, why the taste of teenagers tends to matter more than the taste of adult gatekeepers. I'd love to imagine a future where xxx (and logic, of course but that's another matter) is despised & forgotten, but chances are we'll have no such luck. So we'd better find a more productive way to engage with it than "arghhhh, teenagers".

i mean, i do think it matters how we handle shit like this tbc ... but this is the world we've made, where youtube & soundcloud are seen as neutral sites instead of publications

im not actually super into xxx on a personal level, hes extremely corny and an abuser which makes it hard to catch onto the underdog narrative, i just think its undeniable that the work hes making is a real thing in teh world that is persuading people to think a certain way, and that pretending its not is equivalent to holding your hands over your ears...imo criticism is a tool to rob it of its glamor, not a tool to rationalize its 'artiness'

but in order to do that you have to be honest about what its doing that 'works'

It’s weird how he’s the most recent superstar in this era of wokeness though.

not really, teens are not all as woke as the ones in the news

its almost like the entire concept of wokeness is perpetuted by the coastal media elite as a given norm when really Americans would readily elect a racist xenophobe misogynist to be the president

plus also sometimes people with 'woke' politics like 'unwoke' art

right now what's happening in part is the no platforming that (rightly imo) is pushing against i.e. 'free speech' defenses of Bannon giving a speech at U of C, or ppl defending "good writers" who also happen to believe in the bell curve or whatever as Atlantic or Times columnists. this kind of trolling, or pretending at "objectivity" to give cover to i.e. race hate as if it were a thing worth serious debate.

ppl were doing that with xxx in the press but the press was kind of irrelevant and he did an end run around them bc youtube/soundcloud/message boards/social media etc get the word out, transform the debate into an interpersonal one rather than one about platforms bc no one sees spaces like youtube as a publication, but as a neutral site

is how i see it

except in this case the no-platforming accomplishes nothing; the argument for no-platforming is it causes the bad actors in question to give up and take their nazi ball home; clearly, there is no risk of that happening here

right thats what im trying to say!

no problem, misread

people doin good work on this thread I gotta say, enjoying the ~~~discourse~~~

he's on the new weeknd album apparently

perhaps the look-at-me-self-righteousness of xxx and certain types of wokeness might even be connected in some way.

This seems like a crucial read.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/music/the-real-story-of-rapper-xxxtentacion-10410980

Nearly two years after they first met, Ayala now rents a room in a house 20 minutes south of Onfroy's place. It's the first room she's had to herself. "I'm saving up to move somewhere else," she says, "somewhere in the country, where there aren't any people."

a grim and disturbing read.

Some discussion of him on the mumble rap 2017 thread but now that we’re about to see him break into the mainstream he deserves his own thread.

Album got dropped on spotify one week ago and its songs are creeping all the global and viral charts. Billboard is still not acknowledging the streams but it’s safe to say Sad will take the singles charts and the album will take the top 200 in the following weeks.

So, what say you ILM? Worthy of the insane hype?

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, March 24, 2018 1:13 PM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ffs

― imago, Saturday, March 24, 2018 1:16 PM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fuck this scumbag abuser forever
https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/xxxtentacions-reported-victim-details-grim-pattern-of-abuse-in-testimony/

― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, March 24, 2018 1:27 PM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^^

― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, March 24, 2018 1:55 PM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how did this thread not end right here?

cause soundcloud kids kept listening to him

that's a very sad final paragraph to the piece

"sad" (the song) did not end up taking off on radio as much as i thought it would, i am relieved to say. (obviously it was still a big hit tho + his fans were gonna stream it and the rest of his music constantly regardless of whether radio gave it any further exposure.)

horrifying read

Take, for instance, Hillary Clinton, he says. "She ran [for president] and she wasn't killed for it. That says everything."