Is there a name for that genre of turn-of-the-90s pop-rock with the positive vibes, huge guitar leads, and gated drums?

Yeah, the drums do sound really naturalistic on Two Princes. The snare is cranked pretty high (tuning-wise and in the mix) and there's a lot of reverb on there, but it's really live-sounding.

It still totally fits the vaguely funky, party-rock vibe though!

Actually listening to the break in that tune I wouldn't be surprised if there was some gating going on? Not Phil Collins extremes or anything, just a little.

OTFMy ass. Grohl slays on Scentless Apprentice and No One Knows. Different kind of thing, but just as tight. More uptight? Yeah, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Given those two examples, I'm inclined to change my OTFM.

It still totally fits the vaguely funky, party-rock vibe though!

When threads collide!

Sang "Two Princes" at karaoke tonight to a fairly receptive crowd. What a great song. Half the running time is taken up with "just go ahead now"s, but they pack in enough variations on that, plus the fantastic scatting thing after the first verse and the hidden gem at the end: "Oh, your majesty / Come on forget the king and marry me." So great.

Post-Cold-War sounds right.

the result of "alt" bands showing up in the studio with producers who only knew how to make certain kinds of records.

Proposed genre name: Industry Music

the opposite of the sludgy/blurry blanket the other end of alt-rock would bring in.

A lot of British "alternative" music would not at all have a sludgy or blurry guitar sound. Britpop, for instance, often had a very pure and clean guitar sound.

I think Genesis' "I Can't Dance" fits into this category as well.

In the original post, Doctor Casino says "One can imagine an entire alternate, Nirvanaless 90s rock history-that-might-have-been". When I was living in Atlanta during the summers of 1993 and 1994, listening to the local "alternative" station at work (99X), this stuff was all they played. It was like Nirvana never happened. Later, after I'd stopped coming back to Atlanta for the summer, I heard they started playing more Creed-type stuff (and I guess with Seven Mary Three, who had a big hit in 1995, that was on the way earlier). But in 1993 and 1994, you'd hear Whale once an hour, Porno for Pyros, that "New Age Girl" song with the "she don't eat meat but she sure loves the bone" line, and on and on with this stuff. So I don't think you have to imagine an entirely different rock history---it happened, and I'm sure Atlanta wasn't the only place it did---but I spent the rest of my time in San Antonio, and there Nirvana and the Smashing Pumpkins laid out a much grungier history.

Euler - faboo post, especially because I'm from Atlanta and was weaned on 99X myself - but from, let's say, '96 through '99, when the format was dead-set on post-grunge alt-rock: Foo Fighters, Everclear, and Pumpkins reined supreme. If the guitars were distorted or the band wore tattoos, it was probably in. Funny how these things evolve! Just around 2000 the nu-metal quotient was really getting too much to take, and anyway I moved away for college at that point. I think they later pulled the standard 2000's "return to rock" makeover where they start playing Nirvana and Pearl Jam along with the White Stripes...dunno where they're at now.

I just checked the "Hit List" on "Detroit's New Rock Alternative" 89X and the top three songs are Foo Fighters, Papa Roach and Limp Bizkit. Two out of three bands I didn't even know still existed.

James Murphy still has a lot of work to do.

99x's playlist is almost exactly what you'd expect it to be if you stopped listening in 1997, with the integration of numetal and emo (and still plenty of Dave Matthews Band ads all over the place)...

Oh, and a few "huh, didn't realize they were that above the radar now" moments - Peter, Bjorn, & John, mainly. WTF? Also, Cake apparently has a cover of "War Pigs" out there, so I guess I better not turn on the radio for a while. Collective Soul is my pick for "didn't even know still existed."

THEY ALSO CANCELLED THE RETROPLEX WHICH WAS THE ONLY GOOD THING ABOUT THE STATION

In the "same as it ever was" category, there's also a Silverchair song on the 99X playlist. It's like 1994 never ended. I thought their whole "appeal" was that they were a "grunge" (and Australian) version of Hanson?

I just checked the "Hit List" on "Detroit's New Rock Alternative" 89X and the top three songs are Foo Fighters, Papa Roach and Limp Bizkit. Two out of three bands I didn't even know still existed.

James Murphy still has a lot of work to do.

-- yussel, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 04:52 (7 hours ago) Link

haha, I did a doubletake and actually had to go to that site and make sure that Limp Bizkit doesn't still exist. they don't -- you meant Linkin Park.

"James Murphy still has a lot of work to do" is the new "no Sufjan, no credibility".

what does it mean?

without pushing it too hard, i think this stuff had an r&b analog in new jack swing. both had that real crisp, bright beat production, mostly uptempo, big hooks. and design-wise, lots of color -- if you watch videos either for a lot of songs in this thread or for new jack songs, you get all those bright primary colors, and lush purples and greens. in both cases it was sort of the tail end of an 80s sonic and visual aesthetic, and they had some commonality in their hybridization of pop, electrofunk and hip-hop. (not that the songs being talked about here actually reflected much hip-hop, but they were at least aware of it. look at the half-rapped verses in like, inxs songs or even "life is a highway." and then supplanted in the recessionary early 90s by grunge on the one hand and g-funk on the other, which took turns in murkier directions and basically had nothing to say to each other.

i've always thought that 88-91 era had some things in common with the '60-'63 era, when rock 'n' roll and r&b and tin pan alley were all kind of talking to each other, these windows of pop hybridization between periods when forms emerge and solidify again (often by referencing or paying homage to past forms). the hybrid periods tend to be marked by a lot of moaning about various forms being "dead" and a lot of sneering at the stuff on the charts. it's possible we're in one now.

(should have been a closed parens somewhere in that first paragraph. insert at will.)

In the "same as it ever was" category, there's also a Silverchair song on the 99X playlist. It's like 1994 never ended. I thought their whole "appeal" was that they were a "grunge" (and Australian) version of Hanson?

They're not grunge anymore. They sound like Coldplay now.

So does this mean that there were no heirs to this lineage? That alt-rock's influence, even on people that were ultimately not consuming alt-rock albums, was to restate a certain standard of "authenticity" when one was to undertake doing genre work?

Yes. I think this genre played the same role in alt myth that prog rock played in the punk myth: something to exist in opposition to, and render unfashionable.

This genre is called Corporate Rock. It still sucks.

Oh, and a few "huh, didn't realize they were that above the radar now" moments - Peter, Bjorn, & John, mainly. WTF?

-- Doctor Casino, Wednesday, September 5, 2007 5:05 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Link

i didnt know what this was until it came on lite rock radio at the goodwill in greenville SC and my gf had basically the same response

they were playing it in between like careless whisper and maroon 5

Which is exactly where it belongs, right? That's not a criticism.

Do you guys remember people around that time saying "I listen to progressive music"? (which meant they listened to the "Modern Rock" format radio station circa '90/'91)

these people were O.G. L0u1s J@gg3r

I think this genre played the same role in alt myth that prog rock played in the punk myth: something to exist in opposition to, and render unfashionable.

This genre is called Corporate Rock. It still sucks.

wrong and wrong

The Spin Doctors were on the leading edge of the piccolo snare revival, which was the signature element of 1990s spring break/frat rock. That's why it stands out. Totally different frequency response, it's almost an instrument there's so much tone. There's definitely a pinch of gated reverb on the kit in "Two Princes," but it barely registers - most of the effects are the "Ready for FM radio" stamps, compression and punch. The effects on that guy's vocals, on the other hand. Wow.

One of the other common threads in the songs mentioned: fuckloads of rhythm guitar overdubs ("Life is a Highway," all Matthew Sweet, Spin Doctors, etc.). This is why the Sex Pistols sounded good on record.

I think a good name for a band in this genre would be "Party Snout."

Just discovered on Wikipedia that the guitarist for School of Fish later went on to join the Bringing Down The Horse-era Wallflowers - PERFECTLY traking the transition from Post-Cold-War Rock to "Authentic" Vintage Rock. Gotta love it.

Going on at the same time in platinum-selling pop and rock was the Unplugged phenomenon: acoustic, live, not overdubbed.

Prozac Rock?

Going on at the same time in platinum-selling pop and rock was the Unplugged phenomenon: acoustic, live, not overdubbed.

Good point. Hrm. Perhaps "Unplugged" can be read as an embryonic resistance form that really only makes sense in a time when other things are extremely and visibly Plugged? I wonder how many of the Unplugged artists later went on to make records that were effectively Unplugged anyway - I'm thinking of McCartney here with albums like Flaming Pie.

oh man, the karaoke master totally shot video of that performance of "two princes." now YOU TOO can enjoy this triumphant, voice-cracking performance of love: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=17419162

The Spin Doctors were on the leading edge of the piccolo snare revival, which was the signature element of 1990s spring break/frat rock. That's why it stands out. Totally different frequency response, it's almost an instrument there's so much tone. There's definitely a pinch of gated reverb on the kit in "Two Princes," but it barely registers - most of the effects are the "Ready for FM radio" stamps, compression and punch. The effects on that guy's vocals, on the other hand. Wow.

this is the fucking TRUTH. other big practitioners of the snare tuned so tight it rrriiiiings on rock radio post-Spin Doctors were mostly obvious lite funky ones like 311 and DMB, but the one that always weirded me out was Nickelback, at least on their first big album, "How You Remind Me" and "Too Bad" have insanely high tuned snares that stand out all the more in their nu-grunge thud.

i dunno if this is an example but i saw THE KAISER CHIEFS on tv and it was like funky spin doctors/late 90s modern rock radio shit... i was kinda feelin it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMDcOViViNY

this is the video i saw

^ban

tza/latebloomer what was that rock station out of anderson in the 90s? i think they only played tool, come as you are, and mysterious ways

stfu dom

u need to go back to crying over a fat girl while listening to the eels & get off my case for digging good times rock music

They're not really "good times" music, their entire last album was about how dumb people who live on council estates are.

qf: Defend The Indefensible: The Lyrics to 'I Predict A Riot'

Kaiser Chiefs and Spin Doctors are two quite different kinds of awful.

Yes, isn't it awful how those who hate recent bands writing great melodic songs meet with opposition on ILM these days? Wasn't it so much better back in 2001 when everyone agreed that melodic music should be buried forever and white males with guitars should never again be allowed to make music?

-- Geir Hongro, Thursday, October 18, 2007 8:35 AM (4 months ago) Bookmark Link

^^^only other time Kaisers have ever been defended on ILX

is this like when whiney expected me to be familiar with gym class heroes lyrics

Actually, it's not just Geir, you've got the British National Party agreeing with you as well: http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/news/20060824_bnp.shtml

lyrnyrd skynyrd wanted george wallace for president and eazy e was a republican, who gives a fuck

BNP championing a typically English sounding band is hardly a suprise, is it?

But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with sounding typically English. In fact, it's great, as there is no other country that has such a great legacy and such a great typical style.

i think there was a reflective sound in house music from around this period too