Mr. Show with Bob and David: Genius or Overrated?

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It certainly wasn't a cookie cutter clone comedy sketch show.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Ned, you're script did not address their "trying to be"-ness, which is the point.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:02 (eighteen years ago) link

your

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Or perhaps you think it was a cookie cutter clone comedy sketch show. In which case, please list the shows that Mr. Show ripped off. If you list Kids In The Hall or Ben Stiller, you need a much more convincing argument.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:06 (eighteen years ago) link

The words 'inspired' and 'original' are not synonyms.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:09 (eighteen years ago) link

No, but look: http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=inspired

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:10 (eighteen years ago) link

well, it was defintitely inspired by python, what with the rolling segues and the general mayhem. so was kids in the hall. nothing wrong with that. steal from the greats.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:12 (eighteen years ago) link

I'd say "innovative" (the word I've used) is a reasonable definition of inspired, since the literal definition is a bit esoteric.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:13 (eighteen years ago) link

well, it was defintitely inspired by python

See, it WAS inspired! :D

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, you have cohesively proven that Mr. Show is inspired, oh how wrong of me to think it wasn't.

xpost *THANK* you Scott. I fully agree with Scott about the tradition Mr. Show exists in, we disagree over it turned out with said show. He I'm sure finds it inspired and doubtless inspiring, I don't. Etc. etc.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Lemonade, get it through your skull. I don't find the show inspired, offbeat, crazy or innovative. I found it generally tedious, overwritten, forced and shrill. That we disagree is no sin, that you insist on splitting hairs to the root is ridiculous.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I guess it ultimately does go back to Monty Python. So different, in my opinion, but definitely "the same." I still say Mr. Show was inspired, though. I think if you had a bunch of comedians sitting around arguing about it, there would be maybe one comedian out of the bunch that would take Ned's position, but it would probably be a real angry, jealous comedian. Howard Stern, for instance.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Does personal taste not exist except as a function of anger and jealousy? Gimme a break.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link

Can't objective ideas exist outside of subjective opinions? Gimme a a break.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/23/nell.carter.obit/vert.carter.jpg

(Lemonade, there's this thing called 'radical subjectivity' which I encourage you to search the archives for, though more on ILM.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:23 (eighteen years ago) link

okay fine I will but I'm guessing I will not like what I find...

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Anyway, as I need to actually get some things done here now that it's about 8:30 and I've been up for an ungodly six hours already, I will leave by noting: I personally find Kevin Shields' music to be awesomely inspired through and through. I do not obsess over its unique originality because it is not and was not created out of thin air, though I find the end result to be something almost beyond my description to convey in terms of what it did and does for me. Chuck Eddy has long been a hater of MBV and finds the results to be extremely uninspired, dull, etc. I have *never* considered Chuck to be angry or jealous of Kevin Shields' reputation, as that would be patently ridiculous.

Lemonade, you may draw what you like from that as you will. I am not asking you to change your way of thinking, believe it or not, but I would like to ask you to consider how mine works.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I was looking for a picture of Joey but couldn't find it...

Anyway, I found this: Does subjectivity really have a place in a serious argument concerning music? and... long drawn out philosophy made simple: I think everyone has an opinion but outside of those opinions all we have are certain words to describe reality objectively. Perhaps "inspired" is too esoteric a word choice to argue a point. I think the show is definitely loopy and has a unique draw that may not appeal to everyone. How's that? Boring? :D

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Ned, my only issue was with your "trying to be" assumption.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Ie. suggesting Mr. Show is "trying to be" something it clearly is (to many people, at least). That is why I asked if you were there when they were writing the sketches, to see if you had some insight as to what they were "trying to be." That's all.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Anyway, I hope no hard feelings. I wasn't trying to be a dick, I was trying to have a non-heated arguement for the sake of the argument itself.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Jesus.

Lemonade, are you seriously arguing (as you appear to be) that the writer weren't trying to be "loopy and inventive"? I think that's where you and Ned have common ground, you both think that that's what they were shooting for, but you disagree as to whether they hit it.

As for saying "many people consider this subjective opinion to be true", that is, if you'll pardon my French, a prick's game.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:45 (eighteen years ago) link

What appears profound to some will undoubtedly seem inane and/or insipid to others and this will always be the case for everything from Mr. Show to Pink Floyd to Bill Hicks to G.G. Allin.

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 23 April 2005 14:53 (eighteen years ago) link

come to think of it, even though i like arrested development, i kinda feel about it the way ned feels about mr.show. tries too hard to be zany, shrill,etc. and i don't even like david cross that much on it. i think i have already seen that kind of character so many times from him. plus, he has a real problem with taking his shirt off too. on mr.show and arrested development. i don't know what that is all about. but i do think it's clever. and i love george michael. i get sick of opey's voice though. and i do find it more "amusing" than LOL-funny.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:02 (eighteen years ago) link

No problem, Andrew, I am a prick. I don't know that the writer's were trying to be "loopy and inventive" any more than they might just be young, hilarious writers (possibly on drugs) who went back and forth like this:

Writer #1: "Now that is fuckin' funny! Ha, ha, ha!"

All writers: (riotous laughter)

Writer #2: "Ooooh, man. Ohhhh, shit."

Writer #3: "That situation is kind of like this other situation..."

(and there's your rolling segue)

Writer #4: "It's totally the opposite of this other situation..."

(and there's your rolling segue)

No, I don't think it they were TRYING to be loopy and inspired, I think they just WERE. They came at comedy from every angle and tried to cram as many jokes as they could into a single episode.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link

... and I agree with Scott even if it is just the flipside of my argument... Arrested Development seems forced, trying too hard, etc.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:45 (eighteen years ago) link

keyword: "seems"

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:45 (eighteen years ago) link

When Scott and I first started hanging out, one of the first things he played me on his t.v. was his Mr. Show videos. I think he was really relieved when my sides were splitting and asked to see more. We might not be married today if I had hated it.

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Aw, neat. :-) I like hearing stories like that!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 23 April 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Da test of da funny! has there been a thread on that?

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:12 (eighteen years ago) link

I had previously regretted reviving this thread but Maria's anecdote was worth it.

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:16 (eighteen years ago) link

one more thing about mr.show: i never got the "ha! aren't we clever clever?" vibe from it. the vibe i always got was "this is EXACTLY what we find funny and what our friends find funny and this may be our only chance to do this on television and if you like it, fine, but if you don't, oh well, we really feel like we got the chance of a lifetime here". but maybe i'm just a naive fool.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link

I get that vibe too, though I can see how the hypephobic could fail to.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:23 (eighteen years ago) link

and I really gotta give it up for the 120 Minutes therapy session skit.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe more like "if you don't like it, go take a dump in your hat." But I don't get the "aren't we clever" vibe from it either.

xpost

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:27 (eighteen years ago) link

scott: ditto on that, my feelings exactly. They seemed to be doing what THEY thought was funny which struck me as very ballsy most of the time (and smart).

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:28 (eighteen years ago) link

if anything part of the reason the show is so popular is that they never were around long enough to feel the love.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:29 (eighteen years ago) link

my best friend Lance and I have very similar senses of humor. we immediately bonded with mr.show. we used to love a show that nobody remembers called On The Television starring Tim Conway's son that was a siskel & ebert kinda spoof show where 2 guys would review new fake t.v. shows. let me know when that is on dvd. it wasn't always hilarious, but boy was it silly. we both love mad t.v. too.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Scott OTM re: vibe of show.

"if you don't like it, go take a dump in your hat."
Don't you mean on the American flag?

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 23 April 2005 18:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Ha ha! NO! BECAUSE IT CANNOT BE DONE I TELLS YA!

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 23 April 2005 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link

i never got the "ha! aren't we clever clever?" vibe from it.

I can sort of see how if you don't get that vibe, it could be a really good show, but it's a bit like "if an elephant was small, white and round, it'd be an aspirin".

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Saturday, 23 April 2005 18:19 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm sorry, is there any successful sketch comedy show that couldn't be seen as "trying to be clever?" I mean they all have the audacity to try and make you laugh.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 April 2005 18:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean even America's Funniest Home Videos has that smug Bob Saget cracking wry over the shots of dogs sliding around on ice.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 April 2005 18:32 (eighteen years ago) link

i'd understand the complaint if they, like, gratuitously paused for applause or something, but the show has a pretty zippy pace.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 April 2005 18:34 (eighteen years ago) link

it should be noted that scott seward's the only person defending mr. show on this thread right now that's ever been funny on ilx.

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 23 April 2005 18:56 (eighteen years ago) link

so i guess that makes him bob

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 23 April 2005 18:56 (eighteen years ago) link

it should be noted that scott seward's the only person defending mr. show on this thread right now that's ever been funny on ilx.

Oh really. Sure he wasn't just trying to be funny?

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 19:03 (eighteen years ago) link

see, the only one

― j blount (papa la bas), Saturday, 23 April 2005 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Still, even.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 23 April 2005 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't come down to where you work and slap the dick out of your mouth!

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 23 April 2005 19:11 (eighteen years ago) link

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