sometime i read christgau and am amazed...

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the voice music section is so much better now

jhøshea, Sunday, 25 November 2007 02:05 (thirteen years ago) link

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000002KMV.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

The Reverend, Sunday, 25 November 2007 02:29 (thirteen years ago) link

(as she kinda did in a Re:Search interview, denoucning "faggots" takin' over the at world etc)

OMG! Exene said this? Where exactly?

Kevin John Bozelka, Sunday, 25 November 2007 05:10 (thirteen years ago) link

Another in the "you don't have to answer" category: John, do you live in the States?

Kevin John Bozelka, Sunday, 25 November 2007 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link

And Donna Summer said some nasty shit away from a recording studio, so.

Can we get some concrete evidence of this? I've heard she said that AIDS was God's punishment for homosexuals. Adn where did she "poke nervous fun at the gay men who made her a star?" References? Wikipedia needs a citation for the area of the Donna Summer entry.

Kevin John Bozelka, Sunday, 25 November 2007 05:15 (thirteen years ago) link

OK, so my 1st guess was more or less correct. But then it just seems like he was using perverse syntax to say something straightforward. (I'm still not sure that sentence makes sense. "They're a one-idea group who deserve only that much attention" has one less word in it.) I'm not even sure I get that criticism though. Would it be better if there was no one theme or organizing principle to an eclectic 20-minute track? Is "Marquee Moon" less of a one-idea piece? Is he just saying "Instead of writing lots of different short songs like a rock band should, they're so obsessed with this one dumbass 'seasons of man' idea that they try to connect them all to this one idea?"

Sundar, Sunday, 25 November 2007 05:25 (thirteen years ago) link

Kevin, the Re: Search issue with the Exene interview (odd-size trade binding)is in the Fine Arts stacks at my local library: I'll check the issue no., page no. soon as I can get back over there (this interview really was *a long, long time ago*, she might well have changed quite a lot, and who knows how it was edited.Guess the point of the song was people who get stressed by living in L.A., zooming in on somebody to blame. I know she's said in recent interviews that, no matter how much better her life there got, like with her dayjob as a teaching assistant at her kid's school, she'd saved up til she could buy a house in Missouri, and when she'd saved some more, would move out there permanently, as I think she's since done [still tours with X, and records with her other band] Also in the Re: Search interview, interesting stuff about her life in Florida, before moving to L.A.

dow, Sunday, 25 November 2007 05:27 (thirteen years ago) link

Thanx, Dow!!

Sundar to answer your questions in order:

Would it be better if there was no one theme or organizing principle to an eclectic 20-minute track?

No, it would be better if there was no one LAME theme or... Lame to Xgau, natch.

Is "Marquee Moon" less of a one-idea piece?

Well, if you're asking Xgau, he'd undoubtedly say yes. Or maybe that the one idea is a great one. Or waaaay greater than "the seasons of man."

Is he just saying "Instead of writing lots of different short songs like a rock band should, they're so obsessed with this one dumbass 'seasons of man' idea that they try to connect them all to this one idea?"

He'd never require a rock band to write short songs. As you intimated, he adores "Marquee Moon." And he loves The Grateful Dead who wrote/played longer than Yes ever did. But yes, he believes that Yes is obsessed with this seasons of man theme and that they do try to connect their songs (long or short) to it. And the songs are poorer for it.

Kevin John Bozelka, Sunday, 25 November 2007 05:56 (thirteen years ago) link

Can we get some concrete evidence of this? I've heard she said that AIDS was God's punishment for homosexuals. Adn where did she "poke nervous fun at the gay men who made her a star?"

Skimming through her vapid autobiography a few years ago at B&N, she alluded to how the most intense part of her Christian phase drove her to say nasty things, and the gay stuff was one of them. I may be remembering it incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure she apologized to The Gays.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 25 November 2007 06:42 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, I got the letter. :)

Kevin John Bozelka, Sunday, 25 November 2007 06:58 (thirteen years ago) link

the voice music section is so much better now

Seriously, you have got to be kidding! As I'm certain Kogan and others would be only too happy to attest to, the Voice music section started goin' downhill as soon as the powers that be imposed ever more stringently limited word counts on reviews.

John, do you live in the States?

Nope. I've been living in Greece since '93, Kevin; hence my keeping such odd hours--as far as American posters are concerned, that is--on ILX.

JN$OT, Sunday, 25 November 2007 14:14 (thirteen years ago) link

upthread somebody, I think Ned, predicted Jonathan Gold's pulitzer prize three years before it happened!

m coleman, Sunday, 25 November 2007 19:39 (thirteen years ago) link

has xgau reviewed boz scaggs or art garfunkel in rolling stone yet?

m coleman, Sunday, 25 November 2007 19:40 (thirteen years ago) link

i don't think Joe Levy would allow Xgau to throw himself under the train, unless Bob really did love a new Scaggs or Garfunkel album (you never know, though I wouldn't bet on it). That suggesting either have a new album to submit. Maybe Xgau could wait for Mick Jagger's 2010 opus, surely a work of genius percolating with his MIckness and a future superstar to be named later....

smurfherder, Sunday, 25 November 2007 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link

Maybe--however, I do not really see that happening until Wenner has rather unceremoniously kicked the bucket, ya know.

JN$OT, Monday, 26 November 2007 08:32 (thirteen years ago) link

two years pass...

Cass Elliott: Don't Call Me Mama Anymore [RCA Victor, 1973]
How about Fatso? D

figuratively, but in a very real way (amateurist), Saturday, 6 February 2010 09:08 (eleven years ago) link

what an asshole

figuratively, but in a very real way (amateurist), Saturday, 6 February 2010 09:09 (eleven years ago) link

Agreed. Dude is the worst.

ian zamboni, Saturday, 6 February 2010 09:24 (eleven years ago) link

rip

velko, Saturday, 6 February 2010 09:25 (eleven years ago) link

The E.N.D. [Interscope, 2009]
How dare people call this wondrous album--actual quotes, now--"insipid," "saccharine," "clumsy"? Only I don't mean people--I mean journalists professional and self-appointed, from rockist sourpusses to keepers of the hip-hop flame. Just plain people love it--love it so much that various of its tracks topped the pop charts nonstop for the entire summer. "Party All the Time" is no more a recipe for living than is instant Wi-Fi for all, the message of the supposedly "political" "Now Generation." But in a party anthem it's the definition of intelligence. Sampling classic rap rapaciously and as cool with Auto-Tune as with getting their drunk on, they party beginning to end, which as it happens is a far rarer achievement than signifying beginning to end. Maybe this album is dumb on the surface, though not as much as fools claim. But sure as showbiz it isn't dumb underneath. A

Master of Reality [Warner Bros., 1971]
As an increasingly regretful spearhead of the great Grand Funk switch, in which critics redefined GFR as a 1971 good old-fashioned rock and roll band even though I've never met a critic (myself included) who actually played the records, I feel entitled to put this in its place. Grand Funk is like an American white blues band of three years ago--dull. Black Sabbath is English--dull and decadent. I don't care how many rebels and incipient groovies are buying. I don't even care if the band members believe in their own Christian/satanist/liberal murk. This is a dim-witted, amoral exploitation. C-

ian zamboni, Saturday, 6 February 2010 09:29 (eleven years ago) link

Everyone Who Pretended to Like Me Is Gone [Startime International, 2002] (The Walkmen)
Just what we always wanted--Jonathan Fire*Eater grows up. Put some DreamWorks money into a studio, that was mature. Realized Radiohead was the greatest band in the world, brainy. Stopped playing so fast, hoo boy. And most important, switched vocalists from Nick Cave imitator to Rufus Wainwright imitator. Wainwright makes up better melodies with a dick in his mouth, and not only that, Cave has more literary ability.

I obviously hate this review for the dumb, offensive dick "gag," but it's also just so tin-eared. Radiohead? Rufus Wainwright? What he is he even talking about?

Shannon Whirry and the Bad Brains, Saturday, 6 February 2010 12:19 (eleven years ago) link

It's most embarassing that he stumped for a band as terrible as the walkmen, but he's otm about the peas

Groanatta77 (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 6 February 2010 15:05 (eleven years ago) link

Shannon Wirry writes better ILM posts with a dick in his hand.

Inculcate a spirit of serfdom in children (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 6 February 2010 15:13 (eleven years ago) link

Wow, I was a real hot-head six years ago! (Guess the Voice job stressed me out.)

xhuxk, Saturday, 6 February 2010 15:13 (eleven years ago) link

i think ilm was more hot-headed in general six years. at this point you and shakey mo and amateurist are probably ready to go in on a vacation time-share together.

scott seward, Saturday, 6 February 2010 15:54 (eleven years ago) link

wait, i'm almost painfully generous and reasonable on this thread (on others, not so much).

figuratively, but in a very real way (amateurist), Sunday, 7 February 2010 03:00 (eleven years ago) link

also, i actually enjoy reading xgau. when i discover something like the cass elliot review, it actually seems out of character. but i still can't believe he put that in print.

figuratively, but in a very real way (amateurist), Sunday, 7 February 2010 03:01 (eleven years ago) link

that BEP review is pretty otm, though

dyao, Sunday, 7 February 2010 03:45 (eleven years ago) link

so i havent actually heard the bep album but i have heard the samples & are you guys really bumping that album on a regular basis or is this just some like 'its certainly not all that bad cuz a lot of ppl like it" vague populism? i dont mean that it isnt enjoyed by lots of ppl and that isnt legit, just curious if there are ppl here who actually listen to it on the regular

average gangsta rap from average gangstas (deej), Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:01 (eleven years ago) link

i have heard the SINGLES not samples

average gangsta rap from average gangstas (deej), Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:02 (eleven years ago) link

like, "man im really in the mood for this black eyed peas album that is blasting out of every single jukebox in the country."

average gangsta rap from average gangstas (deej), Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:03 (eleven years ago) link

I listen to it on the regular (NB: I don't hear it being blasted everywhere) and I think it's an enjoyable pop album - not really trying to be a contrarian populist here.

dyao, Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:06 (eleven years ago) link

I mean I really hated IGF/BBP when I first heard them after youtubing them to see why they had been billboard #1s...but really grew to like both of them after a few listens

dyao, Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:07 (eleven years ago) link

fair enough. like i said i think its an acceptable position & believable, but i just have no interest in hearing dude rap the way he does so

average gangsta rap from average gangstas (deej), Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:07 (eleven years ago) link

yeah, I view his rapping on the same level as gucci mane going "BUR! BUR! yeaaah! woooOOOOooOW!"

dyao, Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:10 (eleven years ago) link

I find it pretty easy to tune him out and just concentrate on the sonics

dyao, Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:11 (eleven years ago) link

??

dyao, Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:21 (eleven years ago) link

fwiw what I said wasn't meant to be a diss on gucci

dyao, Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:24 (eleven years ago) link

You should know better than to bring up Gucci in any negative way around his stan numero uno.

you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:29 (eleven years ago) link

haa i was playin yall

average gangsta rap from average gangstas (deej), Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:42 (eleven years ago) link

haha. just to explain, I hear will.i.am in the same way as I hear gucci scattin' - someone who has a nice voice which adds to the sonic texture without really adding meaning/signifying anything. nice to listen to. was meant to be a diss on will.i.am more than anything.

dyao, Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:47 (eleven years ago) link

comparing any rapper to will.i.am is certainly a diss to that rapper

hoos n nem (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:48 (eleven years ago) link

j0rdan s. raps like will.i.am

dyao, Sunday, 7 February 2010 04:49 (eleven years ago) link

It's most embarassing that he stumped for a band as terrible as the walkmen

they left the grade off, but that review is actually a slam

da croupier, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 07:47 (eleven years ago) link

And the fact that it's not apparently possible to tell what constitutes a stump vs. a slam is as hilarious as a dick in the mouth.

Shannon Whirry and the Bad Brains, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:33 (eleven years ago) link

thinking is hard.

the not-strawman one (Ioannis), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 14:41 (eleven years ago) link

The E.N.D. [Interscope, 2009]
How dare people call this wondrous album--actual quotes, now--"insipid," "saccharine," "clumsy"? Only I don't mean people--I mean journalists professional and self-appointed, from rockist sourpusses to keepers of the hip-hop flame. Just plain people love it--love it so much that various of its tracks topped the pop charts nonstop for the entire summer. "Party All the Time" is no more a recipe for living than is instant Wi-Fi for all, the message of the supposedly "political" "Now Generation." But in a party anthem it's the definition of intelligence. Sampling classic rap rapaciously and as cool with Auto-Tune as with getting their drunk on, they party beginning to end, which as it happens is a far rarer achievement than signifying beginning to end. Maybe this album is dumb on the surface, though not as much as fools claim. But sure as showbiz it isn't dumb underneath. A

Master of Reality [Warner Bros., 1971]
As an increasingly regretful spearhead of the great Grand Funk switch, in which critics redefined GFR as a 1971 good old-fashioned rock and roll band even though I've never met a critic (myself included) who actually played the records, I feel entitled to put this in its place. Grand Funk is like an American white blues band of three years ago--dull. Black Sabbath is English--dull and decadent. I don't care how many rebels and incipient groovies are buying. I don't even care if the band members believe in their own Christian/satanist/liberal murk. This is a dim-witted, amoral exploitation. C-

This fucker Christgau deserves to die.

Bill Magill, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 15:19 (eleven years ago) link

Look at any good critic's career's worth of writing and you'll find a few questionable calls.

I just wish he hadn't adopted the "ilxor" moniker (ilxor), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 15:45 (eleven years ago) link

how is that a "questionable call" unless he's changed his mind? (which in any case we are all allowed to do?) i mean i pretty much disagree but if that's what he thinks...

لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, 9 February 2010 15:47 (eleven years ago) link


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