Democratic (Party) Direction

fred this this isn't about ELECTORAL STRATEGY, this is about somebody (one of many, many people) whose parents have gone deranged. i don't know about you but i love my parents, they raised me, and you know seeing your parents voter for pederasts because "abortion" is fairly painful. worse still is that if "abortion" was ever, as an issue, separable from white identity politics, it isn't now; the two statements basically need to be interpreted as synonymous.

insofar as an argument for progressivism can be made here, my argument would be that in age of identity politics (on both sides), little things like "policy" no longer matter, or at least no longer matter as much as personal charisma, because the persuadable electorate are not knowledgable and do not make their decisions on such a basis. in 2016 part of clinton's appeal to voters like me was that her command of logistics in "GOTV" efforts more than counterbalanced her stunning lack of personal likability. i think it's time to test an alternate hypothesis, and given the rapidly degenerating nature of the american state i think it is urgent to test that hypothesis as quickly and widely as possible.

i suspect, at this point, that the people who are arguing against progressive candidates, or who are arguing for the "strategic" deployment of them as if they were some sort of limited resource, are doing so because they do not actually support progressive politics (though in your case, i don't believe this - i think you're just a cloudcuckoolander who believes that elections can be won or lost on a purely theoretical basis).

I must admit, I don't get what you're writing at all. I argue for running progressive candidates in Wyoming and Mississippi, don't you agree?

But why would progressive candidates be more likely to have personal charisma?

I mean isn't this just an argument to forget about ideology and just support candidates you think have that "spark"?

All I care about is depriving republicans (or any party to their right, if that is even imaginable) of their wins. I will support whatever candidate, centrist, communist, whatever, that I think can defeat them and push back fascism

i suspect, at this point, that the people who are arguing against progressive candidates, or who are arguing for the "strategic" deployment of them as if they were some sort of limited resource, are doing so because they do not actually support progressive politics

That's not the case for me. I'd love to push the US as far left as it can go before it breaks. But I also understand that there's a deep deep DEEP tribalism at play and sometimes the best you can do is get a pro choice senator in Alabama.

I mean isn't this just an argument to forget about ideology and just support candidates you think have that "spark"?

― Guayaquil (eephus!)

yes! if the primary is between a deeply charismatic and likeable centrist and a deeply unlikeable "progressive", and the general is going to be even remotely competitive, the centrist is the best choice. alternately, the argument is that no matter how politically knowledgable or skilled you are, if people don't like you, don't fuckin' run. find somebody people like and convince them to run instead. puppet them if you have to.

how often do deeply unlikeable progressives get anywhere in politics

They're likable enough.

generally speaking, they're the ones who HAVE to be exceptionally charismatic or likeable (or at least have a certain folksy je ne sais quoi) to get anywhere in the first place

"unlikable" and "get anywhere" both in the eye of the beholder but i can think of progressives who to my mind fulfill both conditions one of whom is in charge of a major uk party even

Idk how you can watch the video of Corbyn putting the (horrible) UK media on notice and not like him but as you say, eye of the beholder

I find HRC likeable as a personality tbh.

Likeable or not, not a progressive. (Not gonna let myself get pulled into relitigating that one.)

It was a response to this, not a suggestion of a likeable progressive:

in 2016 part of clinton's appeal to voters like me was that her command of logistics in "GOTV" efforts more than counterbalanced her stunning lack of personal likability.

If anything, I might be less convinced of her command of GOTV logistics.

yeah i am convinced of the opposite that in fact her logistical abilities were highly overrated and ultimately as an organizational manager she was a total failure

what about new states of being, ecstatic self whatevers

how'd she do there

Andrew WK 2020

It was a response to this, not a suggestion of a likeable progressive

ahh kk

neoliberalism.jpg pic.twitter.com/AtC0L2uPm6

— maple cocaine (@historyinflicks) February 28, 2018

very important to tweet out fundraising flyers from 2013

oh shit, i bet this year's Schiff event is outta my price range

no signs of a beyonce tour tho

Schiff is drawing the ire of the worst left twitter accounts right now because he’s visibly going after the fascist President. Very normal.

Every time I see Schiff on TV he impresses me with his clarity and ability to speak in sentences. He hasn't struck me as a warmonger – he strikes me as a guy who might've been an obscure congressman had not this moment come.

I don't know his other positions.

Every time I see Schiff on TV he impresses me with his clarity and ability to speak in sentences.

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, February 28, 2018 5:09 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've always been struck by the same. I don't think it makes for political salability, but it does or should make for spectrum-wide credibility and is a sign of a good prosecutor.

Schiff is drawing the ire of the worst left twitter accounts right now because he’s visibly going after the fascist President. Very normal.

lmao have you ever met tankie twitter cause they're definitely worse

when Fidel died I got a taste of tankie Twitter

anyway i'll take hyperskepticism over the Mueller swooning any day

False binary.

XXpost yeah, that’s definitely true. I use to follow an account that collected bad talkie tweets.

Most leftists are aware that Mueller was Bush II's FBI guy.

*tankie tweets

I'm not sure i want to know what a tankie is.

mueller talk is consistently the most mortifying on ilx

I'm not sure i want to know what a tankie is.

― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 28, 2018 12:34 PM (thirty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

keep it that way you are lucky

people that said RIP COMRADE! when fidel fucking castro died

pic.twitter.com/heRrqp0O6i

— Tankie Takes (@tankietakes) February 13, 2018

jesus christ

people that said RIP COMRADE! when fidel fucking castro died

well, I know some trots said that too...yknow what I'm just gonna see myself out now

wow thanks for the heads up on that tankie twitter feed some real gems in there

the dprk tankies are the weirdest i had no idea they even had a fanbase

Most leftists are aware that Mueller was Bush II's FBI guy.

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, February 28, 2018 5:25 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

While an important chapter, that's an inadequate description of a broader career that omits his showdown with Bush

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/01/582358540/muellers-reputation-in-washington-is-stunningly-bipartisan-journalist-says
http://www.msnbc.com/the-cycle/watch/msnbcs-ari-melber-looks-back-on-robert-mueller-s-fight-with-the-bush-administration-1038001219660

people that said RIP COMRADE! when fidel fucking castro died

― flappy bird, Wednesday, February 28, 2018 6:15 PM (forty-nine minutes ago)

iirc one of the ppl who did this was that moron jill stein

i thought about jill stein for the unlikeable progressive conversation but i'm not sure she qualifies as having gotten anywhere

yes JD i remember that

people that said RIP COMRADE! when fidel fucking castro died

well, I know some trots said that too...yknow what I'm just gonna see myself out now

― Simon H., Wednesday, February 28, 2018 1:41 PM (thirty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea i know it was fucking disgusting

Also Justin Trudeau tbf

While an important chapter, that's an inadequate description of a broader career that omits his showdown with Bush

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/01/582358540/muellers-reputation-in-washington-is-stunningly-bipartisan-journalist-says
http://www.msnbc.com/the-cycle/watch/msnbcs-ari-melber-looks-back-on-robert-mueller-s-fight-with-the-bush-administration-1038001219660

― Moo Vaughn,

I'm aware of it (I've read Takeover), I just had to burnish my leftist credentials, see.

well trudeau just has no spine he'll bend any way the wind blows