Frank Zappa: Classic or Dud?

i should have put my post here!

teaching mark s a *LESSON* response one: ZAPPA

well, now they're CONNECTED and it's all right

I heard Waka/Jawaka for the first time last week, that's another one I need to get eventually

add Grand Wazoo to that list too, if you haven't already

Hot Rats fans, seek out both mixes (1969, 1987) -- they're like 2 different albums, both great.

dont trust mark s!!

the vinyl mix is nice. i like the omission of the first three and a half minutes of the "gumbo variations" jam. the "little umbrellas" mix also has way more bass in it and is really good.

also worth finding: the radio ads by david ossman (firesign theatre) for the album. one of them actually has an unreleased frank zappa song ("passacaglia", track 6 of "the artisan acetate") in the background.

oh, and there's a great 12 minute jam on "sharleena" from the "hot rats" sessions closing out the "lost episodes" cd.

I've got the vinyl! never knew there was a difft version of gumbo variations

they're all bad not good

(xp) One feels like it lasts 10 years, the other is longer.

My gateway into moderate Zappa fandom (strictly 60's MoI tbh). The drums as noted above are great and the guitar showboating actually works (eg Willie the Pimp ios pretty badass). Also love the overlooked angular jazzy closer It Must be a Camel

classic clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgAF8Vu8G0w

I just had the realization that Zappa if alive today would totally go on the Joe Rogan podcast

He'd not just be a guest, he'd be a regular.

He'd have gone into an incoherent apoplectic rage when we invaded Iraq and burned himself out of any creativity or coherence he might have had left. Now, in his late 70s, he'd tell anyone calling on him to fuck off and let him die in peace.

His whole persona is like the template for YouTube guys, like sarcastic, know it all, vaguely libertarian, "people today are too easily offended/controlled by the government/corporate media", misogynistic, casually racist

He'd have gone into an incoherent apoplectic rage when we invaded Iraq and burned himself out of any creativity or coherence he might have had left. Now, in his late 70s, he'd tell anyone calling on him to fuck off and let him die in peace.

― I hear you've been having trouble with pigs and ponies. (WmC)

he'd have gone into an incoherent apopleptic rage over napster and would've spent the last twenty years suing his fans

politically he's a pretty clear forerunner of today's social media assholes but he probably would hate them just as much as he hated everybody else

Eh, ultimately, I think he cared more about music than any of that. Maybe he'd be programming with Max/MSP and doing TED talks on Varese idk.

Oh god yeah Napster/streaming would have drove him nuts

That one I could maybe see.

he probably would've done a "Macarena" parody in like...2004

All of you otm. He’d also be prime material for a WTF sit down with Marc Maron

he probably would've done a "Macarena" parody in like...2004

― frogbs

look he wasn't "shitty weird al yankovic", his being old and out of touch manifested in other ways. he'd probably be making fun of, like, jerry garcia's od (timeline works out: made fun of hendrix's death in 1984, elvis's death in 1988). that's another thing: he loved to make fun of people for dying, and as far as i can tell, nobody ever died as a result of the macarena.

but of course most of his "satire" in 2004 would likely be taken up with songs attacking george w. bush and islam in roughly equal measure.

he probably would have had his own porn site.

lol just thinking about him releasing an album called "Shiek Yerbouti" in 1979

TED talks on Varese

<3

Zappa in New York is being blown out to a 5CD set in March.

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/zappa_ny3600.jpg

Limited edition 5CD set in an embossed tin box

CD 1 – The Original 1977 vinyl mix
1 Titties & Beer 5:01
2 I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth 3:31
3 Big Leg Emma 2:17
4 Sofa 3:16
5 Manx Needs Women 1:34
6 The Black Page Drum Solo/Black Page #1 4:06
7 Black Page #2 5:42
8 Honey, Don’t You Want A Man Like Me? 4:16
9 The Illinois Enema Bandit 12:41
10 The Purple Lagoon 17:12

CD 2 – Bonus Concert Performances – Part One
1 “The Most Important Musical Event Of 1976”
2 Peaches En Regalia
3 The Torture Never Stops
4 Black Page #2
5 Punky’s Whips intro
6 Punky’s Whips
7 I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth
8 Honey, Don’t You Want A Man Like Me?
9 The Illinois Enema Bandit
10 “Two For The Price Of One”
11 Penis Dimension
12 Montana

CD 3 – Bonus Concert Performances – Part Two
1 America Drinks 4:52
2 “Irate Phone Calls” 1:37
3 Sofa #2 3:04
4 “The Moment You’ve All Been Waiting For” :58
5 I’m The Slime 5:38
6 Pound For A Brown 4:50
7 Terry’s Solo 2:47
8 The Black Page Drum Solo/Black Page #1 3:53
9 Big Leg Emma 2:19
10 “Jazz Buffs and Buff-etts” 1:51
11 The Purple Lagoon 17:00
12 Find Her Finer 5:22
13 The Origin Of Manx 1:48
14 Manx Needs Women 1:37
15 Chrissy Puked Twice 6:40
16 Cruisin’ For Burgers 9:56

CD 4 – Bonus Concert Performances – Part Three
1 The Purple Lagoon/Any Kind Of Pain 4:25
2 “The Greatest New Undiscovered Group In America” 2:18
3 Black Napkins 28:33
4 Dinah-Moe Humm 6:16
5 Finale 4:40

CD 5 – Bonus Vault Content
1 The Black Page #2 (Piano Version) 3:16
2 I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth (Alternate Version) 3:55
3 Chrissy Puked Twice
4 Cruisin’ For Burgers (1977 Mix) 9:08
5 Black Napkins (c)1976 10:56
6 Punky’s Whips (Unused Version) 10:55
7 The Black Page #1 (Piano Version) . 2:13

There's also a 3LP version with a much shorter track listing:

Side A
1. Titties N Beer
2. I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth
3. Big Leg Emma

Side B
1. Sofa
2. Manx Needs Women
3. The Black Page Drum Solo/Black Page #1
4. Black Page #2

Side C
1. Honey, Dont You Want A Man Like Me?
2. The Illinois Enema Bandit

Side D
1. The Purple Lagoon (Side B)

Side E
1. Black Napkins
2. Cruisin For Burgers (1977 Mix)

Side F
1. The Black Page #2 (Piano Version)
2. I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth (Alt. Version)
3. Punkys Whips (Unused Version)
4. The Black Page #1 (Piano Version)

What's the deal with Orchestral Favorites?

I recently found a CD I barely remember owning or playing. Coincidentally there seems to be an expanded reissue in the works.

Was it from a concert or not? Some kind of contractual obligation thing? Anyway, glad I dug it out of that box.

Another early attempt he made at getting his "orchestral" music recorded with a pickup orchestra (really mostly an expanded version of the Grand Wazoo big band). It's OK, and it's nice to hear Emil Richards playing Zappa's stuff, but it's still probably the weakest of his "orchestral" works. It was another one that came out of the material intended for Läther (learned how to type umlauts on a US keyboard this week)

is that the same as the Revised Music for a Low Budget Symphony Orchestra -Live at Royce Hall 75

I believe so, yeah.

Anyone who hasn't heard the original Music for Low Budget Symphony Orchestra on Jean-Luc Ponty's album of Zappa compositions should do, it's nice!

Thanks rushomancy et al. Just the kind of context I was hoping for.

I think this was partly opaque to me because the inlay on the (1991) CD says "Recorded at Royce Hall, LA, September 1975" but also, "originally released in LP format, May, 1974" (impressive!), while the artwork is dated 1979.

My friend and I improvised a Zappa song the other day. It was this big, heavy pentatonic scale riff, then after a few runs through the riff he leaned over to his keyboard and dooped out a crazy cartoon-random mallet percussion part while I intoned in some ironic narrator voice. "Meanwhile, back stage, the group was engaged in sexual proclivities of a sort that would make you blush..." And then back to the riff. It was called, iirc, "Dwarf Athlete."

I think this was partly opaque to me because the inlay on the (1991) CD says "Recorded at Royce Hall, LA, September 1975" but also, "originally released in LP format, May, 1974" (impressive!), while the artwork is dated 1979.

― Invisible (Noel Emits)

The 1974 date is a typo.

My friend and I improvised a Zappa song the other day.

lol @ Josh I can hear it in my head

Is that Zappa in NY album considered a classic or something to get a 5 CD treatment? I listened a bit and really dug the brass on "Titties & Beer" and the moody angular vibe throughout.

"Titties and Beer" not widely considered a classic, no. Also, there's "The Illinois Enema Bandit", which is hands down the vilest piece of shit Zappa ever wrote, and there's some pretty fierce competition.

Really don't dig Zappa, but if I recall correctly I had a copy of this LP, which might be the only place to get, or for the long time was the only place to get, "The Black Page?'

I still get more pissed off about "Jumbo Go Away"

Is that Zappa in NY album considered a classic or something to get a 5 CD treatment?

Well they just had lots of unreleased tapes. Anyway the market for such boxes isn't that big so they're limited editions that sell out quickly and get deleted. Both the Roxy Performances and Live in NYC Deluxe boxes are now deleted. The good thing is that there's an official Zappa channel on YouTube where you can stream both (and much more).

There's also a sneak peak of the new release: Revised Music For Low-Budget Symphony Orchestra (Live At Royce Hall, 9/18/1975)

I was under the impression we were getting a Hot Rats box this year

Zappa in New York box is great

It was my most listened to Zappa back when I, well, listened to Zappa.

The expanded Orchestral Favorites is a lot of fun. The orchestra sounds under-rehearsed on a lot of it, as was usually the case with FZ and orchestras and chamber groups until Ensemble Modern, but game to give anything a try.

The expanded Orchestral Favorites is a lot of fun. The orchestra sounds under-rehearsed on a lot of it, as was usually the case with FZ and orchestras and chamber groups until Ensemble Modern, but game to give anything a try.

I am glad they released this. Only recently I found out some of the 2012 remasters (and vault releases) are now deleted...and I can't find them anywhere now. Would have loved to hear the remaster of "Studio Tan".

https://store.zappa.com/hot-rats/the-hot-rats-sessions-box-set-preorder.html

This looks great, but 125 clams for 6 discs and a book is maybe a bit wtf.

not a Zappa obsessive by any means but this looks cool indeed

If I was gonna keep only one Zappa album (and I'd really only be keeping three or four, anyway), Hot Rats would be it, but honestly the actual contents don't seem all that exciting. Endless take after take after take of "Peaches en Regalia"? No additional versions of "The Gumbo Variations"? Plus, it seems like the original LP mixes are nowhere to be found, which is weird. Mmm, I don't know.

If I was gonna keep only one Zappa album (and I'd really only be keeping three or four, anyway), Hot Rats would be it, but honestly the actual contents don't seem all that exciting. Endless take after take after take of "Peaches en Regalia"? No additional versions of "The Gumbo Variations"? Plus, it seems like the original LP mixes are nowhere to be found, which is weird. Mmm, I don't know.

There was an announcement of the contents of this box put up accidently by the (third-party) reseller of Zappa products on zappa.com with an annotated track list. It was taken off quickly but was reposted on the forum on zappa.com. I read there's a 32-minute take of "Gumbo Variations", retitled as "Big Legs". They included the digital remix from 1987 as the 2012 cd version uses the original vinyl mix. And you can get that very cheaply. (Strangely, "Sharleena" from "The Lost Episodes" is not part of the box).

This teaser was posted too. Just a different mix it seems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HP5i4dxZP4