Smashing Pumpkins: Fresh Fruit or Rotten Veg?

A five day countdown started on the website a few hours ago... http://www.smashingpumpkins.com

I haven't been totally keeping up, what's the announcement meant to be - reunion, tour, album?

Maybe those last remasters can fucking finally get released.

Could be wrong, but I don't think it's a new album -- Billy was recently pictured recording some songs with James/Jimmy/Jeff Schroeder in the studio, but from what I understand they were just guesting on a WPC album. I would guess it's going to be a new tour (sans D'arcy), tying in with the 25-year anniversary of Siamese Dream. On Billy's Instagram there was a cool photo of twins looking suspiciously like older versions of the SD cover kids.

But please God let it not be about professional wrestling.

No, it's a new Pumpkins album. Billy recorded his new solo record in Nashville with Howard Willing a couple months ago. The Pumpkins have been working with Rick Rubin at his studio in LA for the past several weeks. The record isn't done so the announcement is probably about a world tour and the promise of a new record relatively soon.

and who cares if he does pro wrestling stuff? he's still doing that. he can do both, whatever

Given Iha’s still in A Perfect Circle and they just announced their own new album and tour, I’d like to see how different this reunion is from any other post-2000 version of the band.

APC is only booked thru early July. I didn't expect any SP shows until the summer. Given that, and the very much unfinished state of the new album, I'm just surprised the announcement is so early. There are billboards with the SP heart in NYC right now.

An entire album about pro wrestling might be the only Pumpkins album I'd buy in 2018.

Well it's sure looking like D'arcy isn't going to be involved. Strange. I wonder what went on.

This is like the least strange and wonder-needing thing that could possibly surround a Smashing Pumpkins reunion. I don't follow the band at all, but afaik for the last two decades D'Arcy is a) not generally considered good enough to play on their records by the band leader, and b) likely not healthy enough to do a major tour.

(That said, to Ned's question about what differentiates this from other 21C reunions

she's apparently been healthier in recent years & over the last two years of these reunion rumours Billy had repeatedly mentioned that he was on good terms with her again so it is disappointing she doesn't seem to be involved

(that said, to Ned's question: it seems any time Corgan uses the name it's mainly to goose sales, but as a non-fan this looks like a more whole-hearted attempt to capture a "band" feel than any previous reunion!)

xpost obv

healthier is great! but well enough in all relevant ways to be a full member of a touring band (and to maintain that health in those circumstances) is a different thing

wishing her very well as a person and, in distant second, as a musician, would probably go hand in hand with not wishing her to be involved with this just for the old times' sake of promo photos and videos that we watched a quarter of a century ago

BC is savvy enough to know (and has said as much) that the nostalgia factor of seeing the full original band was going to be massive, and it’s well documented that he’s been in contact with D’arcy and James for a year or more. So yes, I’m interested to know what conversations went on between BC and DW.

Big purple billboard in Times Square now: “THE IMPOSSIBLE IS POSSIBLE TONIGHT”

So, Corgan, hologram Prince, Jason Bonham and Victor Wooten?

what is so hard about Smashing Pumpkins bass parts?

Getting a permanent bassist, apparently.

They should at least try to get Melissa Auf Der Mar back if D’arcy is not in

Big purple billboard in Times Square now: “THE IMPOSSIBLE IS POSSIBLE TONIGHT”

Oh so they ARE releasing the final remasters.

(Yes I will harp on this point.)

Put me down as a skeptic about the whole 'D'arcy sucks at bass' narrative. I've never been to any of their shows but I've been listening to some of the real early live stuff on archive.org and she doesn't sound bad on any of them afaict

They should at least try to get Melissa Auf Der Mar back if D’arcy is not in

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, February 11, 2018 8:03 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Melissa is fantastic and they really should

Put me down as a skeptic about the whole 'D'arcy sucks at bass' narrative. I've never been to any of their shows but I've been listening to some of the real early live stuff on archive.org and she doesn't sound bad on any of them afaict

yeah Ive seen old live footage she seems fine. Billy always acts like Pumpkins is some crazy mind-blowing shit it's gonna
hilarious, and agreed about the sexism/Meg White factor

I'm sure the overwhelming reason Billy played in the studio was that he's an arrogant asshole

To be fair Butch Vig is the one that suggested he play their parts when they did Gish, only because they had limited time & money & Billy could do it quicker & James and D’arcy agreed.

Big purple billboard in Times Square now: “THE IMPOSSIBLE IS POSSIBLE TONIGHT”

Ugh. Big fan and all, but no need to hark back to bloody 1996. Do us all a favour and don't look back to 22 fucking years ago man.

again, to be fair, they took a pretty hardline stance against the past when they came back in 2007. it didn't work out. I expect this reunion will be more measured: they're working on a new record, it's not going to be a Pixies hit parade thing, but they won't be indignantly ignoring & tainting the past this time. besides, what's wrong with that lyric? is the classic SP heart any different?

"They" didn't come back in 2007 though: it was Billy's vanity project back then, and it is now. It's not the Pumpkins coming back together - D'Arcy's not even there.

"they won't be indignantly ignoring & tainting the past this time"

Yeah ok, here's hoping.

Classic SP is totally different. In every way imaginable. I'm ok with SP getting back together, but lets not kid ourselves: Billy gathering some people to do SP songs live is what's been happening for nearly two decades now. It is what it is; but an SP reunion, it is not.

it was Billy and Jimmy in 2007. call the Zeitgeist era whatever you want (i have some ideas), but it was anything but a vanity project. it was a sincere attempt to make a contemporary SP record. and yeah, we will see about this time, but now James is back. does that make the Machina tours illegitimate? i mean of course i agree, without the original four it'll never be the same, but i think this go round has a better chance of producing interesting results, in concert and on record.

Billy and Jimmy does not equal Smashing Pumpkins. Smashing Pumpkins = Billy, Jimmy, James, D'Arcy. Calling any other reincarnation a reunion is bollocks.

(i know we agree, not you I dig at, it's this commercial "reunion" idea that irks me: it's not right, especially if it's not a proper reunion. Which it isn't)

i'm just saying, the "reunion" in 2007 was Billy and Jimmy from the beginning. it wasn't Billy's vanity project or him ordering anyone around. it got to that place eventually, but at least they tried to come back with something new. as far as the commercial idea of a reunion and all that entails... that's show business. Billy knows and has said publicly that the band hasn't existed fully since 1996 (Arising tour aside, which was rough going for D'arcy). we'll see how they market it this time and what the angle is. I'm optimistic.

Casual fan at the very best, but I can't think of a single memorable SP bass part. Michael Anthony has more standout moments.

"Rhinoceros" is a bass-driven song. Arguably the massive riffs of "Quiet" are mostly bass (unless that's an octaver). "Hummer", "Soma", "Bullet WBW", "Ava Adore" have pretty great bass parts. The goth roots of the Pumpkins sound depend on big bass riffs, they even remastered Gish very early on to boost the bottom end.

Holy crap I dialed up Mellon Collie in writing that post, listening for the first time in years. "Here Is No Why" my god what a CRUSHING track.

yeah like I said above, you can count the number of notable bass lines and bass driven songs in SP's catalogue on 1 hand more or less: Rhinoceros, Bury Me, Hummer, Glass and the Ghost Children, I of the Mourning. what you're hearing on Quiet is Octaver / pitch shifted guitar, yeah.

Here is No Why has my favorite written guitar solo Billy's ever played

FB I get where you're coming from but I guess my loss of interest in SP's music coincides with D'Arcy's departure - they became less goth-rock and more hard-rock after Adore, and that thick bottom end was displaced by a midrange snarl which doesn't do much for me.

^wholly agree with this

Definitely Rhinoceros and Crush have great bass moments at least

I half-suspect, just with all the different moving parts in those SP songs, that Billy might actually be fleshing out a lot of the structures on the fly in the studio--at least from SD on--so I don't doubt that it would be easier for Billy just to record all the guitar and bass parts himself and then just to teach them to James & D'arcy during rehearsals, in their finalized forms

making D'arcy play roots and fifths all the time seems a more glaring example of Billy's egotism tbrr

Casual fan at the very best, but I can't think of a single memorable SP bass part.

I disagree - Gish is awash with good basslines. Bass plays the lead melody on Bury Me.

Well, musically speaking, when I think of the Smashing Pumpkins, I think first of Billy Corgan's voice/songwriting/guitar playing and then think of Jimmy Chamberlin's drumming. Those are the defining components of the band for me. I don't give anywhere as much thought to the contributions of Iha and D'arcy.

I stand by my Van Halen comparison. Yes there are bass parts, but damned if any of significance come to mind, and even if they did, Michael Anthony's playing is the last reason anyone is listening to those records.

they would be way worse records without his bass playing though. locking down "running with the devil" the way he does is EXACTLY the right decision. stable bedrock for the two wild off-the-chain performers. song would be a mess without that. i mean the way y'all are talking just describes what most rhythm sections do in rock music, right? like very few people would name the bass and rhythm guitar as the key aspect of most rock bands, but they do all kinds of work making the songs move and set a mood and become earworms that it's easy to attribute solely to the lead guitar riff or the vocal part when you're playing it back in your head.

So many of those early VH classic tunes are without multitracking on Eddie's part (guitar overdubs for solos only?) so Anthony frequently straying from the root would have been a mess

No, I get that, bass is important, that's why most bands have bass players. But they can also contribute so much more than "locking down." I think of Iron Maiden or Metallica with Cliff, or the Who/Beatles. And so on. It would be one thing if I said the bass playing in SP (or Van Halen) was *bad*. That would take you out of the song. It's just not notable or noteworthy or essential to the music. Like, I can't think of any memorable bass parts in Slayer songs, either.

Set the ray to jerry is driven by a bass riff and awesome drums.

Trying to think of good Def Leppard or Boston bass lines ...

I can't tell the full extent of the bass part on "Glynis":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsvtXg7fMY4

like there's definitely a bass playing the root, but i can't tell if the bass part is also following along with the riff on another string