Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

I mean plenty of posters in the two threads were posting about what they found rich about the vegas plotline (beyond it being just a single conceptual gag) for literally the entirety of its run

The slow waiter is a good analogy in that it obviously is partly a joke on impatient viewers, but it's also tense and sad and lovely and joyous (señor droolcup is a fucking angel! just like DougieCooper). People always talk about "trolling" with that scene but I don't think the point of it is the people who feel they're being shut out, except that it wants those people to fix their hearts

Lynch just genuinely loved the character and spending time in that Vegas world

it's really only this

i think

I can understand why someone might not be on board with Dougie or five minutes of uninterrupted sweeping or the extended scenes of dawdling that bookend the second season but it's part of what Lynch does. He likes to let things breathe. This isn't one of those MTV videos or a trailer for a Jason Statham movie, man.

david lynch's the transporter would probably just be the straight story 2

a co-worker who i think is a TP fan not a lynch fan (hasn't seen fwwm which i obv recommended she do as soon as set and setting permits) said something to me like "i need to see the new one because i need to know what happens to coop" and for all the allegedly hostile choices the return makes i was totally confident in saying "you will find out what happens to coop"

I'll go out on a limb and say I'm not a fan of the sweeping scene. I didn't really see what purpose it had, other than as reductive shorthand for "damn this series is slow."

But I think the frustration stems mostly from the sense (imagined, mostly) that those long scenes come at the expense of something we aren't seen—"why are we seeing this instead of Coop/Audrey, etc," as if there was only so much screen time to go around. That may have been the case for FWWM, where a lot of good stuff involving characters we love had to be cut in order to make the film stand on its own, but he pretty clearly fit everything he wanted to in The Return. They even extended the series' episode account iirc

Its purpose is ultimately the same as all of the other roadhouse musical interludes

I need to rewatch because I've forgotten a bunch of scenes of weird dark things and the thing I've most thought about in the last month is Dougie!

I visualize the essence of Cooper's as this swirling cosmic force that can influence Dougie's body, but only barely. So you have this tabula rasa character being pushed around on the chess board by a player that subtly moves him, who can see the entire playing surface. He's completely oblivious as to who is a knight, rook, etc. but the cosmic player knows. Eventually it's time for that particular game to end and he ends up getting that jolt of electricity as Cooper moves from the chess master role into his body.

Did Cooper really have that much control over Dougie's body, though? It seemed like it was mostly the lodge pulling the levers

Its purpose is ultimately the same as all of the other roadhouse musical interludes

make me wonder why twin peaks now sounds like being in an urban outfitters?

I can understand why someone might not be on board with Dougie or five minutes of uninterrupted sweeping

They're not the same thing. The sweeping is fine.

lol you may be the only viewer who was like "man Dougie doesn't move me at all but now this sweeping scene.... that's the good stuff"

Periodic reminder that it is cooper's body, not Dougie's, that cooper may or may not have the barest control over

Haha. Loved the sweeping scene! xp

Dougie was starting to wear me out a bit near the end.

the sweeping scene is beautifully framed and meditative; it also feels united with the pacing of the rest of the show. can't imagine rejecting it without exposing yourself to the theoretical purposelessness of several other scenes

I just think for the director who has always said he got into filmmaking because he wanted to see his paintings move, the question "why cut to a shot of an empty bar being swept" makes about as much sense as "why cut to a shot of a stoplight"

It's basically a hopper tableau come to life. Also 2 minutes is simply not a long time

Periodic reminder that it is cooper's body, not Dougie's, that cooper may or may not have the barest control over

― scrüt (wins), Tuesday, February 6, 2018 12:07 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol i nearly typed this exact sentence

I always feel like I'm being a Frankenstein was the creator pedant (and often am) but it's not a minor point! The character lynch wants to spend all this time with is Dale Cooper

Periodic reminder that it is cooper's body, not Dougie's, that cooper may or may not have the barest control over

― scrüt (wins), Tuesday, February 6, 2018 1:07 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

true! I tend to think only of "Dougie" as the entity we see for most of the series (Cooper's body, not much going on between the ears), the real Dougie Jones... we hardly knew him

real douglas jones seemed like kind of an asshole

not the other real douglas jones in the vegas fbi office

definitely loved the sweeping scene.

real douglas jones seemed like kind of an asshole

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, February 6, 2018 12:15 PM (fifty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

but i'm guessing he was an asshole in the same way tulpa diane is an asshole i.e. they're fundamentally incomplete people dislodged from their true selves

Exactly

hard to say, we never evidence she was bad at her job, neglected a family, or cheated on a spouse with sex workers

she also didn't seem to have let her body go, but tbh all that chain-smoking isn't good for you

that's what I mean about the drip-drop of details about the real Dougie's past upthread... it's a bit of a mystery as to who this guy was, but I always assumed his personality must have been pretty nonexistent so as not to stand out in any real meaningful way, or for anybody to miss him when he's gone. But he also has a lot of ppl in his life who seem to care about him, despite his history of fucking up. I don't think he was an asshole; he was probably pretty easygoing

Tupla Diane, by comparison, had a shitload more personality, but her template was built off a real person, not an empty construct of a person

He was hapless

kind of a fundamentally mediocre human

idk man he was cheating on his wife and gambling to the point where people were threatening his life?

by kind of an asshole i think i mean whatever cosmic depression he felt bc he was an empty shell def negatively affected the other people in his life

fundamentally mediocre human seems right on

He was also involved in a criminal conspiracy let's not forget!

Also both tulpas experienced fugue states

yeah fundamentally mediocre is otm

But in a way that only underscores the sweetness of that whole arc. Here's a guy who's contributed very little to the world, and actively been a burden for a lot of people, yet more or less everybody helps him out anyway. They feel a sense of responsibility for him, and even show considerable affection for him. Reminds me a bit of the Straight Story arc of "here's a guy who meets people, and everybody he meets is really nice and helpful." Very effective contrast to the sourness and brutality of what's happening at the same time in TP

Original Douglas Jones is also interesting because he too is Dale Cooper

Let’s not forget the obvious dementia metaphor of Coop-as-Dougie. The protraction deliberately provokes a heightened sense of loss, and yes frustration / irritation that this apparently normal looking person is still not “himself”. We watch him like hawks, desperate for the slightest flicker of his old self.

spot on. That all hits really, really close to home

^^

yeah, i think that's really well put

Yep, and again this is all upthread(s) - and not that there should be too much of a biographical emphasis but frost's dad was dying of Alzheimer's and lynch was practically non-verbal into his early 20s & an anxiety about language/communication is a constant feature of his work going back to the alphabet, so there are plenty of reasons they might be interested in exploring this story beyond "it's their idea of a good wheeze"

Nobody else here probably cares about the giant's phonograph sound (i posted about it in either this or the other thread but was of course totally wrong), but someone figured it out (months ago, but I'd missed it until now): https://youtu.be/dMuzMU2u04o

It's the sound of Laura unlocking her diary from a FWWM missing pieces scene, around 13 secs into this clip.

check out the positioning of her hands as she retrieves the key, too...

whoa, the hands!

The Return was a masterclass in amping up expectations, it takes about 17 episodes to progress Coop beyond the finale of S2 and his efforts to undo Laura's demise. Finale shot with Laura hearing Leland and then screaming confirmed that we can't have nice things, the purgatory continues

Watching THE WRONG MAN and realized Lynch lifted this shot for the end of the new Twin Peaks 😳 pic.twitter.com/5UYlbJpjIj

— Nicky Smith (@MUGGER1992) March 8, 2018

We had to go to a wedding this weekend and we kept saying “wwiiiith this ring iiiii theeeee wed” to random people.

TWIN PEAKS fans, I am proud to present “Damn Fine Coffee,” a record of the TWIN PEAKS fan theory presentation at @SplitScreensTV festival. If you love Lynch/Frost’s masterpiece, you will want to set aside time for this. Play it LOUD if you can. https://t.co/tNylW1xGul pic.twitter.com/yZbfXwZzmA

— MZS (@mattzollerseitz) June 10, 2018

Also, the ppl who made the jack nance doc are trying to make a film about Catherine Coulson

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/historyofcool/i-know-catherine-the-log-lady

I read someone describe Laura's scream at the end as "blowing out the flame of the demon", and it explains why I disagree with the ending being definitely interpreted as a failure or loss.

i miss this show

My wife and I rewatched The Return for the first time again. We loved it the first time around and loved it even more this time, getting through it in less than a week. Would love to see it come back again, but I guess the chances are very slim.

i miss this show

― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Thursday, January 24, 2019 8:19 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah. I’ve seen a few people get excited about a possible new season based on some vague evasive response Lynch gave in some interview but I highly doubt we get any more tbh - the surviving cast & crew would be up for it, I think showtime would put up the money again, and even though it feels pretty complete I have faith that Lynch & Frost could cook up something, but reading the biography it’s pretty clear that working on the return took a pretty drastic toll on Lynch (not to mention his marriage). He was basically sick for the entire shoot, I just don’t see him taking on another project of this scale any time soon. It seems like he’ll keep directing if he can get funding from Netflix or whoever but something tells me his next thing will be a different beast altogether. Which is fine, I can be content with “only” sixteen and a half new hours of miraculous tv, but of course I’d love to experience something of this quality on a weekly basis again.