Depression and what it's really like

Yeah guys, thinking of you and knowing you dont deserve to be going through this shit.

btw, for those of you reading who might not be sure what "77" is, or for people who might see this thread in the future, just request access here:

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all of my problems bog down to me being unable to accept being disliked by anybody, viewing it as a personal failure. I wasn't like this prior to a few years ago - part of why I got promoted at work is because I was able to be frank and stand firm in the face of any criticism.

Nowadays though even if someone dislikes me for unreasonable reasons, my brain processes it the same way. I find myself doing things I don't want to because I think it will please people, even if I know saying "no" is reasonable.

the alternate theory is that I'm so tired of conflict/emotional stress that it's not that I care about being disliked, but I just desperately want to avoid conflict due to how much of it I experienced at work and with my folks the last few years (re: money).

so I find myself wanting "me" time a lot more than I used to. I used to date anybody who'd give me the time of day, now I look for excuses as to why I shouldn't.

it's not a bad thing, I'm very independent and don't need constant stimulation from other people to be happy, but I don't want to get too closed off either.

part of me thinks I actually need something bad to happen soon just so I can see "hey this didn't kill you", cos with anxiety it's more fearing the myriad of 30452452454254902542 timeline possibilities than reacting to something that really happened.

I also am really worried about my dad, who hasn't been the same since his hospital visit in 2016 for anemia, and may have had a stroke. he's having neurological tests done.

I guess all in all stuff's ok, but just venting.

s’what it’s for.

it's bad today. i have stuff i need to do before tomorrow morning but. i think i'm going to go lie down.

good idea.

btw, if you are on board 77, there's a much more active thread there, linked about five replies above yours. it's a de-indexed thread and much more private.

Man Neanderthals post from March is pretty relatable to me. I was popular in school but I’ve always felt the need to be liked which sucks. I have been but that almost makes it an addictive thing although I don’t care if anyone pokes meat work cuz I work with bullies and lame Os

Likes me at work - unfortunate typo

Been drinking way too much - a bottle of spirits a day, or thereabouts. And cutting myself again. It feels like a total regression, but I don't know what I can do about it.

Dowd request 77 access perhaps? There is a more private thread there - sucks to hear this, pm me if you want to talk

<3

Thanks

I've been thinking about depression lately - it seems like the key component is the tendency, probably biological, towards negativity and pessimism in thoughts. Also a tendency to remember the bad things in life. Its like one has a filter and all of life seems seen through gray glasses. The way out is to realize this and try to see things more objectively. Usually emotional thinking is extreme and exaggerated where as a more logical thought process is more moderate.

wow, that never occurred to me

are you being sarcastic?

yes

Ok - thank you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

Xps that might work if you’re “feeling blue” but ime clinical depression and anxiety are defined by the inability to be objective.

what depression is really like = 15 years of hanl3y posts

I didn't even know what depression was until the other week when I had to show up for a horrible meeting at the Dewsbury Moor Sure Start centre. With a background wall of inspirational quotes from Mumsnet and Jo Cox burning my eyes, just zoning out every time someone apart from me talks and realising my self loathing is bad, these people are bad, everything is bad! But I've got to the point where I know if I had clinical depression - I genuinely would have topped myself by now! So I feel for you ppl with depression, cos life as lived by most is already too many abysmal slaps to the face in series.

https://youtu.be/Q4LnpEj1O1Y

WATCH MENTAL ILLNESS: https://t.co/VvBj0tqPiK
START TALKING: #mentalillnessbygaa #mentalillnessawareness #therapythroughmusic

— Gregory Austin Anderson (@gaustinanderson) October 29, 2018

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/how-to-help-someone-who-is-suicidal/

Just a quick check in to say things are alright with me atm - new meds seem to be doing well; it’s only been two months, but I’m feeling more confident. I’ll maybe try going to uni in the nighttime come the new year, assuming things stay level.

good news dowd, pleased to hear it

really good to hear you're having a better time of it, confidence is the magic stuff

excellent dowd

That's great news!

Brilliant, dowd!

that's really good news dowd, I'm glad to hear it.

as a Dowd myself, I'm always pleased to see my online namesake having a win or two!

Blech - a guy in the pub had some rope, and someone joked that it was for a noose, so he demonstrated different ways of making a noose and I kind of blanched. I had to ask him to stop, and go outside to stop a panic attack. Didn’t expect such a strong reaction. It was super embarassing.

That sounds like a really bizarre and unpleasant situation for anyone, why would "this is how you make a noose" be a fun topic for anyone?

this is prob not the right thread but we mentioned learned helplessness here so

I don't know how anyone manages not to have learned helplessness in a world where the negative consequences of trying to do a good job and making a mistake are so much more immediate than any positive consequences of actually doing a good job or negative consequences of not doing anything

Prefacing this that I haven't posted itt as much as I should have over the years...when in remission I've avoided it for fear of being triggered back into it...and when suffering a bout, w/ some exceptions, I've been too incapacitated to contribute anything. Words are the first to go.

I've tried so hard to tackle this w/o any meds these past couple of years...meditation, rigorous daily exercise, trail running, heavy bag, nutritional supplements—HTP-5, magnesium, L-Methylfolate, St. John's wort, turmeric—and Ketamine infusions, psilocybin microdose, ayahuasca, MDMA, somatics experiencing, conventional talk therapy, more directed therapies, cranio-sacral work, homeopathy, breath-work, Reiki, sex, prayer. All in the knowledge that I could, if I absolutely had to, go back on prescription meds.

In January, after 12 years of dealing off and on with this, I discovered a new, horrific level. A friend and mentor who writes on the subject described my depression as "impacted" and convinced me to check into an intensive outpatient program, where I was persuaded to give the meds another go. Now six weeks into what feels like a capitulation—a course of Wellbutrin—and feeling no change besides some anxiety around the edges that wasn't there before.

I have refused so far to go back on an SNRI (I was on Effexor for many years and coming off it was brutalizing, I'm convinced it irreversibly re-jiggered my nervous system) or SSRI (because of weight gain and libido stuff, which I know is absurd considering the stakes). A few months ago I was circling closer to the "heroic dose" of mushrooms in the company of a friend/sitter (I have applied for clinical trials to no avail) but symptoms in this acute state have me concerned that kind of trip would hijack my shadows and things could go south.

Now a week into TMS, which I am trying to be optimistic about.

So fucking tired of this. So sick about how much of my life has disappeared inside it. Worried that it is finally about to have its way with me.

what do you think about the new ketamine spray thing?

I hope that it's helpful to people...my own experience w/ ketamine infusions was a short-lasting effect. If the action is meant to stimulate/rehabilitate atrophied receptors it seems insufficient, but maybe for people who are suffering from mild depression or need an add'l tool it could be effective

it's supposed to be for severe depression that isn't responsive to SSRIs and SSNIs i think?

hi emperor 8!

i had tms last year after a fucking lifetime of crippling depression, like you because i'd tried goddamn everything else. my hope was that, you know, maybe it would be enough to keep me alive another year.

i am still a little surprised at how well i've responded to it and how lasting the change has been (nine months so far). all the overwhelming and intense feelings the depression hit me with, feelings i've spent decades trying to work around, now seem manageable. when i start in on the ruminating i can often not only recognize it but actually pull myself out of it.

it did take quite a while to kick in. of course everybody responds differently, and i don't want to oversell it or give you unreasonable expectations, but i do think there's pretty good objective grounds for optimism. how many treatments are you doing?

i stayed off meds for a long time for similar reasons to you, but am back on a fairly low dose of zoloft and i am finding it helpful and not terribly disruptive. i don't feel anymore like taking meds is a failure or particularly dangerous to my long-term well-being.

I'm glad to hear it's wroking for you. I noticed immediately that my sleep, energy, and cognition improved—after just a session or two—but am led to believe this may be just a common initial response that may not persist at least initially.

I'm doing a course of six weeks of deepTMS which uses a different kind of coil that is supposed to send the pulses deeper into the folds of the cortex (6-7cm). They started me on the standard repetitive protocol (18hz) but have now switched to what they are calling Theta Burst, which fires at 50hz but in a pattern intended to mimic the electrical communication between neurons.

This new protocol fucking hurts. The fields are directed into the left dorsal prefrontal cortex. but on the right side of my head—above my temple—it is barely tolerable, like an enormous woodpecker hammering away at a hematoma. 9 minutes totaling 1,800 bursts followed by a fifteen minute break and then another 9 minutes. Does it stop hurting?

xp sarahell yes, but I don't believe the trials showing any remission tested for standalone eskatamine, only as an augmentation to oral antidepressants. Which is still good I suppose, but my own history has me skeptical

i didn't start feeling any significant effects that i couldn't dismiss as placebo syndrome until about four weeks in. i believe i was on the six week course too, but i don't know what the intensity was or if theta burst was around when i did my thing so i can't comment on that specific protocol, but what you're having sounds like what i had (though i don't know what a hematoma feels like).

they had me gradually amp up the intensity according to my tolerances. i pushed it a little harder than i needed to because i was being all fucking macho about it, which probably wasn't necessary. also in the state i was in i welcomed physical pain, which probably played into it. i would say less that it stopped hurting than that i acclimated to it.

i'll also say that the tms didn't do jack shit for my anxiety, but i'm better at dealing with it without the depression complicating things.

Blech - a guy in the pub had some rope, and someone joked that it was for a noose, so he demonstrated different ways of making a noose and I kind of blanched. I had to ask him to stop, and go outside to stop a panic attack. Didn’t expect such a strong reaction. It was super embarassing.

anybody else have days with persistent but not intense suicide thoughts, like, I'm not gonna do it, but I keep thinking about it

xps Yeah they were in the process of ramping me up from 60% of my motor threshold (the point at which your hand starts jumping around) inorder to desensitize/build tolerance with the goal of taking it to 120%. And they got it up to 95% a couple of days ago, then told me they were changing the protocol.

With the Theta Burst they say they can now achieve the same effectiveness with only 80% motor threshold. But I was kinda pissed because like you I felt (perversely) like there was some merit to toughing it out.

I can relate to welcoming the physical pain even while I don't look forward to it...it is preoccupying enough to provide a 30 minute reprieve from the ruminations

you all should feel free to post on the 77 version of this thread - sometimes stuff like this is easier for others to talk about when it's not google-able

hello everyone

I've hated myself as long as I can remember - at least since I was 12 - but I always kinda (stupidly, catholic-ly) prided myself on getting by without assistance, in not totally dissimilar a way from what E8 described. never even been to therapy. but last week I took my first-ever vacation and had ended up having a four-day breakdown, and came to realize that the knowledge of how my loved ones would take it is the only thing that has stopped me from, let's say, wandering into oncoming traffic. whee!

anyway now I'm on two waiting lists for therapists (specifically, hunting for ACT treatment, inspired by the advice of someone who's known me a very long time and whomst has serious mental health expertise).

I don't have a whole lot to add except to throw some solidarity out to the folks struggling itt

the 77 thread is great, i do recommend it and yeah mental illness can be really tough to talk about

i don't know, but i certainly hope that this thread is at least de-indexed. i'm fortunate enough to be in a position where i don't face any practical negative consequences about being open about my mental illness, but i know that's not the case for everyone.

glad to hear you're getting help, simon. if it helps you're far from the only person to be affected in this way, so try not to beat yourself up over not getting it sooner. you're doing the right thing now, and that's what's important

vacations have always been particularly hard for me, too. i had a breakdown after a vacation in 2003, and one last year went so poorly that i wound up getting tms. i've been working very hard to get to a point where i can take a "vacation" without totally making myself miserable. coincidentally this is the first day of one for me. it's tough, but i feel ok about it!

Simon, hugs! I understand the catholic factor very well.

My husband is still suffering a lot. But it's walking near the abyss. Trying my hardest to keep him from falling in.

Well, hugs to everyone. Sending you lots of love.

nathom, i feel you on that, trying to love and support a depressed person is incredibly thankless and punishing. make sure you take time to take care of yourself!