I HATE APPLE

again, popular is a relative term, I just think it's weird that they essentially did nothing for those customers

like, saying "get an iPhone and put in an SD card" would be good enough, except they won't play music off an SD card

lol 'why didn't apple commit resources to developing a new version of the product that was seeing steep declines in sales since 2008... i find that really weird'

come on guy

sony has some pretty cool artisanal gold-plated audiophile digital file walkman units now

it's one of those things where I look at the specs, get super hyped, and then remember the trail of unloved electronic trash in my wake and that I really like my phone/bluetooth headphones

xp thats not really what I'm saying though

you want to cancel the iPod, fine

but you're still left with customers who want something that syncs with their iTunes music library and can store a lot of music. at the time the 'best' option was the 64 GB iPhone 5

this really shouldn't be hard, either increase storage or allow it to play music off SD cards like every other smartphone has been doing for years. alternatively you can continue to support and profit off repairs for the old Classics for a while, much like car dealers will continue to fix discontinued models. instead they just told people to shove it. kind of a weird strategy for a company whose entire business model is locking people in for life

you're left with customers who were introduced to the iphone 6 at literally the same event the ipod classic was killed at, which by the way comes in a 128 GB storage option and syncs with their iTunes music library and can store a lot of music.

digital audio file players aren't a desirable product anymore, they're insanely cheap and commonplace and there's no specific value Apple adds to the market

like I get the impulse for wanting them to still make what we think was the best single-function digital audio device but the majority of the world doesn't want that anymore, and for people that do, there are knockoffs (or just nth-tier post-ipod devices, whatever) that fulfill the same function. the more specialized ones cost more and have audiophile crap, the cheap ones you can get off a bargain rack

There is no knockoff with a functional click wheel.

or one that syncs with iTunes.

even if the 128 GB came out the same year, you're still essentially telling your customers "pay more to get less"

if they allowed you to drop in SD cards I probably would've bought one for $600 or whatever a long time ago

SD cards for iOS from which you could play music would be a universe changer imo

even if the 128 GB came out the same year, you're still essentially telling your [ever-shrinking, miniscule-ly small group of customers 98% of whom are ILM posters] "pay more to get less"

fixed that for you

how many of the "sync with iTunes" ppl here are also the "iTunes is the fucking worst at syncing" ppl

the operating system that runs the computers they sell should be a higher priority than rounding errors in their revenue like the ipod, and macos is basically abandonware, so it's hardly a surprise that the ipod got canned.

jfc the ipod?!?!?!? that's your complaint about apple?! that's the final straw?

I kind of considered installing Rockbox on an iPod 5g I found when digging around my junk at home but it looks like I wouldn't gain anything over the default software unless I'm really committed to jacking around with files on the device itself. Sound right?

jfc the ipod?!?!?!? that's your complaint about apple?! that's the final straw?

the only product of theirs I actually liked and the sole reason I got an iPhone and continue to have any Apple software on my computer, yeah

I mean that's the whole point of this thread isn't it? I've got a company who's basically locked me into iTunes, who won't even do the bare minimum to keep my business nor even make their products workable unless I'm willing to buy additional stuff. I've got someone's old Touch and it won't charge on the Classic dock, nor will the Classic charge on the Touch car charger (they use the exact same input and I even get a "this is not compatible" message upon pulling it in).

this kind of thing is trivial for every other tech company, but for Apple it's all throwing their hands up in the air and saying "oooh I'm sorry you wanted an antiquated *headphone jack*, but it's actually impossible for us to make one and plus you're kind of a luddite for wanting one in the first place"

i'm not unsympathetic to nostalgia for the ipod! i had a 3G ipod. i had the headphone out stripped and replaced with an audiophile capacitor so it become a direct line-out. i hooked it up to a portable headphone amp that i rubber banded to the ipod and carried around in a stupid case! but the thing is people don't download music anymore! they stream it! in 2018 people who are not middle aged ILMers do not think of music as precious rare files to be hoarded away! they open spotify which is 95% good enough and for that other 4% they can't find they go on youtube and find it there and then the final 1% is what the 20 posters on ILM care about who still run soulseek and maintain meticulously tagged libraries and open last.fm daily to check their stats. coincidentally, this group has a 100% overlap with the group of people who still care about the death of the ipod classic. even if this weren't true and there was still a significant number of users who care about having mp3s of every song they've ever liked, apple has been running itunes into the ground anyway (along with the rest of macOS as caek points out) and oh yeah the music app on the iPhone is completely shit now too. sorry dudes, spotify runs the world now!

I kind of considered installing Rockbox on an iPod 5g I found when digging around my junk at home but it looks like I wouldn't gain anything over the default software unless I'm really committed to jacking around with files on the device itself. Sound right?

― mh, Tuesday, January 23, 2018 11:39 AM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sound quality will be somewhat improved, you get real EQ control and some useful dsp functions such as adjustable crossfeed and adjustable compression. The ability to delete things right from the device, which I like. And... I love managing the library with simple folder structures and never want to go back to an itunes syncing type model.

this kind of thing is trivial for every other tech company, but for Apple it's all throwing their hands up in the air and saying "oooh I'm sorry you wanted an antiquated *headphone jack*, but it's actually impossible for us to make one and plus you're kind of a luddite for wanting one in the first place"

― frogbs, Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:01 PM (thirty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The Zune hardware players were discontinued in October 2011. In June 2012, Microsoft announced plans to discontinue all "Zune" services; instead Microsoft would distribute its digital media content and services under the Xbox Music and Xbox Video brands available on its line of products including Windows 8 PCs and tablets, Xbox 360 game console, and Windows Phone smart phones.

it sounds like what you all need is PONO

I think the audiophile walkman thing keeps coming to mind because hideo kojima keeps sharing pictures of his on twitter

damn you, kojima!

the 64gb walkman NWZ-A17 is for me the best ipod replacer, though it has its flaws. It costs just a bit less than an iPod used to and ticks most of my critical boxes:

--long battery life, y
--takes any size micro SD card, y
--fast scrolling through long lists, y (it does it by page flipping which is fine for me)
--custom syncing software not necessary, simple folder drags, y
--really good sound, y
--small, y

the bad:

--requires proprietary sony plug to usb cord
--rebuilds library each time you unmount it from the computer which takes a few minutes
--rebuilds library if you switch out the micro SD card on the go, which takes a while depending on the SD size
--there is a preference on the device that determines whether you will be accessing the onboard memory or the micro SD memory when you are plugged into a computer. You can't manage both on yr computer at the same time.

I'm sorry, as a software developer, some of those points are making me crack up and I salute the boldness of their development team

"management is demanding that we don't have library database problems like prior models had."
"let's rebuild the whole thing any time it'd likely get corrupted"
"management's never going to buy that! it'd take forever!"

and they somehow pulled it off, beautiful

Zune is kind of a different thing, as far as I know you weren't locked into a certain piece of software with all your library information, and Microsoft wasn't continuing to make more expensive Zune-like devices with half the storage

they discontinued Zune services and had bought all the smartphone assets of Nokia within a year!

I had one of those but had to return it because of that startup rebuild thing (on mh-like objections), it not working well with playlists and some crashes when scrolling.

Sounded great though

(The Walkman not the zune)

right but you can still use your Zune, you can drag and drop the files onto the thing

wait do you feel locked into itunes or the ipod?

wasn't continuing to make more expensive Zune-like devices with half the storage

― frogbs, Tuesday, January 23, 2018 1:58 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark

...that also happened to make phone calls and access the internet from anywhere in the world and which you were carrying around anyway because smartphones are replacing personal computers as people's primary devices.

wait do you feel locked into itunes or the ipod?

yeah. I have a ton of playlists and metadata loaded into it. plus (for the time being) my classic still works

you're going to end up like these people http://www.newser.com/story/208407/whats-so-special-about-this-japanese-chalk.html

I've been that person for like 3 years now

can't believe apple no longer supports my Newton, what a world

tbh chalk is way better than markers

RIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY

I remember when the Apple II folks went crazy because the Macintosh was "worse, more expensive, not as compatible, etc." and vowed that Apple was an evil company for abandoning the platform.

all of this is true but unfortunately streaming is king

streaming has fuck-all on it IRL though

(yeah your long post later is basically otm but I don't scrobble, haven't slsked in years and borrowed an external optical for a few weeks this year to rip a bunch of sessions, concerts, b-sides and plays before moving overseas)

how many of the "sync with iTunes" ppl here are also the "iTunes is the fucking worst at syncing" ppl

have never synced either an ipod or an iphone. add files to iTunes, edit metadata, copy manually to device, delete.

do you back the phone/pod up anywhere?

Apple was an evil company for abandoning the platform

not totally wrong

i don't understand why people are so surprised that people just want to continue to be able to use and maintain an expensive piece of dedicated technology that was sold until very recently and which they want to use in a way that they are used to being hassle-free and which suits them. I want a tiny little lightweight mp3 player that I can use in the gym, rather than use a quite heavy and valuable phone, it's no big deal but it would be good if those technologies were still supported and even minimally developed by the company that made a lot of money out of selling them in the first place.

support legislation requiring technology over a certain price point to be serviced, or replacement parts provided, for a given time period imo

as long as corporations manufacture things and people don’t value longevity there is absolutely no incentive for them to provide anything

they’re not going to be obligated to make an ipod with expandable memory or whatever but if you want to use it for eons and replace the battery, have at it

it would be good if those technologies were still supported and even minimally developed by the company that made a lot of money out of selling them in the first place.

― Heavy Messages (jed_), Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:07 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark

i agree! this is also completely separate from frogbs's claim that apple is leaving money on the table by killing the ipod classic.

otm

not saying they're going to be making money selling iPods in 2018 - rather that it doesn't seem smart to me to not even bother to do the bare minimum to keep some segment of your customer base happy when your entire business model is based around locking people into a software/hardware system. and I say that as someone who genuinely wanted to spend hundreds of $$$ every couple years on new iPhones

It seems more like the kind of thing that might foster brand loyalty and good feeling rather than actually make them money.

That said, you know what technology is still going strong and probably should be supported? Analog headphone connectors!

I forgot to fume about headphone jacks in my list upthread

do you back the phone/pod up anywhere?

I put podcasts on a phone and delete them from the phone once I've listened to them. Last did a backup of the ipod library a couple of years ago, but I have vastly more mp3s than can fit on it. (I say "have," but they're on external drives in a storage locker on the other side of the planet...)

I'm probably the least into music person on all of ILX so my opinion barely counts but I sure as heck appreciate not having to "have" "media files" anymore.

Since this is the I HATE APPLE thread I will say that I hope I don't have to buy a laptop ever again. If this one ever dies I'll probably just live without a "proper computer", it's a hassle and it isn't good for much.