Police Line Do (Not) Cross: True Crime TV & Podcasts

Sorry, I meant I'd never heard of Crime Watch Daily with Chris Hanson, which I thought might fit this thread.

oh! i missed that. yeah i didn’t know he had another show!

Curtis Flowers has been tried six times for the same crime. For 21 years, Flowers has maintained his innocence. He's won appeal after appeal, but every time, the prosecutor just tries the case again. What does the evidence reveal? And how can the justice system ignore the prosecutor's record and keep Flowers on death row?

New season of In the Dark officially announced

Folks, when you have finished whatever it is you're watching/listening to now, go directly to Evil Genius on Netflix. It's a four-parter on the Erie, PA bank robbery by the guy with the neck bomb that went off. You know the story. I didn't know the back story and HFS the real world is far more messed up than you think.

perfect timing Elvis!

starting this now. I know a little of it from The Dollop episode, that’s the first I ever heard about it, but I’m interested to learn more.

There was a Wired story from 2010 that I vaguely remembered reading back then, but I'd just go direct to the series.

ok i’m done

wow

Marjorie is a PIECE of fucking WORK, my god. What a hideous woman.

We just watched this last week. I'd never heard of it before! And yeah that woman is genuinely disturbed. Mind you by the end I felt like dungarees guy was just as complicit... but we'll never really know.

Oh yeah Rothstein def seemed like he was just as awful.

Anyone have any thoughts about the push for an appeal for Scott Peterson? I don't know if this is the right thread for it. Some true crime fans I know are convinced he's innocent, for some reason.

fucked if I know why

i havent read anything in the affirmative so far that has convinced me it’s not him.

everyone is innocent iirc

Not a podcast, but in the theme of this thread I have a personal interest in the Michael Gargiulo trial that may start in a few weeks, given that his first alleged victim was a high school classmate of mine. Her murder happened 25 years ago this month, in the summer after our class's graduation. She was supposed to attend the college I headed to as well.

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/12/michael-gargiulo-quick-links.html

This lady here has been covering it, and I appreciate that since otherwise I would have no idea what was going on or why it's been a decade since his arrest.

(As it happens, the case of my high school classmate won't appear in this trial, but still...)

highly recommend Teacher’s Pet podcast. Australian joint about a 30+ years old cold case of a missing woman presumed murdered by her ex Rugby player husband, a PE teacher who was boning the 16 year old student he also hired as a babysitter. 2 eps in and I am hooked

Fucking hell

Teacher’s Pet got me hooked like nothing else.
I sat on my couch all day catching up on the series - never donw that before.
So many layers!! Highly recommend.

the endless recapping & dragging it out gets a bit exhausting but the investigative journalism is pretty good. lot less tailchasing than a lot of stories, but he has a lot of cooperation from a lot of different groups which def helps push the story along, and the publicity has been insane

just started listening. holy shit.

right?

i kinda want to listen to it again

have been talking with a friend back home aboutthe way friends & even the family remained so inanely *passive* after her disappearance, and how recognizably Australian that behavior is, and that it is actually much more passive-agressive than it seems on the surface of it.

the slang is glorious too - crime scene investigator says he was “spewin” about an outcome & i nearly died laughing

In the end, I liked Teacher's Pet but the last few episodes dragged on quite a bit with repetition. I'm still trying to reconcile that I'm actually sharing the planet with some of these horrible people.

New fave: Forensic Transmissions. 911 calls, confessions to the police, interrogations, trials - all presented straight up without interruption.

Binged Dr Death this week... holy crap, that was a ride and a half. Feels like an impostor story at first but it's WAY weirder.

I will say I'm not a huge fan of Wondery's tendency to overproduce their shows, with occasional dramatic re-enactments and such, it can veer into radio play territory which I don't always love.

But I can overlook it when the reporting and the story is that good. Warning, if you are grossed out by medical procedures this will give you the fuckin PHEAR jesus christ.

It deeply disturbed me! As if I don’t already completely mistrust the medical system in this country. Jesus.

I agree with you about the over production. Couldn’t get into the wonderland season or the Manson one at all.

The one thing that I loved about Dr Death was that the focus was this hideously grotesque awful doctor, but he was brought to justice by two AWESOME doctors who actually gave a shit. It was a great contrast.

But yeah, I've noped out of two Wondery shows within the first 5 minutes based on re-enactments alone.

i agree 100%. dr death is a great story but i'd like it better if it was not wondery. just listened to their aaron hernandez podcast, same.

:/

Just started listening to the Bear Brook podcast by NHPR - bodies found in 2 barrels in a New Hampshire forest 15 years apart, all within 300 feet of each other. Really good, solid reporting & not too many gimmicks. I’m only 2 eps in & i’m hooked.

have also subscribed to 2 more that sounded interesting
-Death in Ice Valley by BBC World Service about a Norwegian coldcase
-Breakdown by the Atlanta Constitution Journal about the murder trial of an Atlanta businessman

Bear Brook is a remarkable story.

Isn’t it just!? The way it intersects so many people’s lives, and time periods.

It makes me so sad that the orginal bodies haven’t been identified - that memorial service really got to me.

Also, of all the things, one I can’t stop thinking about is the whole idea of him killing one tiny daughter & keeping another alive. Like, he’s already clearly a fkn monster obv but that detail just fucks me up.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned yet or if it’s technically considered true crime, but I’ve been enjoying The Dream, about MLMs/pyramid schemes.

i have been meaning to check that out

Oooh we just started the dream last night - only got through one episode but I’m hooked already.

I'm liking The Dream a lot. Related: The Grift podcast http://thegriftpodcast.com

i am in love with the dream, just my favorite kind of stories

i have subscribed so i can live the dream w all yall

Loving the Dream so far. on ep 2 - man this whole town & her family sounds exactly like my hometown, every stay at home mum selling tupperware or throwing jewellery parties or cookware or clothing parties. my mum never did because she worked & thought it was “tacky”, but my sister quite a few girls i went to high school with were all up in that life.

When they were talking about the language used to convince ppl they can be sellers/recruiters too, it reminded of this Facebook msg I got back in 2015 from an old friend I hadn’t spoken with in years:

“Hi Jussie! How are you? You look like your enjoying life and your dog is just gorgeous!! I'm contacting you because I've recently started a new business which is pretty exciting. I thought of you because you're always so positive and motivated! It may or may not be for you personally but you may know others that are looking for a new opportunity or just want a bit of extra cash. If you would like to know more, let me know and I'll send you through a 6 minute video that explains a bit more about the business. IN the meantime, enjoy the warm weather - we're freezing our butts off here!!! Speak soon! Emily x“

Now, we used to waitress together for a couple of years and were quite close, so the idea that she would truly believe for even a minute that I’m “positive and motivated” (two adjectives I’ve never heard used to describe me) is hilarious but also ridiculous and immediately clued me in that this was an MLM (she was involved with that aloe product company).

Up and Vanished S2 is amazing

hippies are so awful it's like trying to solve a crime witnessed only by toddlers

Who the Hell is Hamish? podcast looks promising

New wondery podcast Over My Dead Body is pretty good.

Obv this way more than true crime but Lorena docuseries in Amazon Prime is a must-watch.

and in case you are wondering yes ~he~ is still a walking piece of human garbage & he will make you want to throw your tv out the window

but Lorena herself is v inspiring

and I cried through the whole 3rd episode

I am addicted to Yeardley Smith’s “Small Town Dicks”.

Quite possibly my platonic ideal of a true crime show.
Most of the details are relayed by the IRL small-town law enforcement who worked the crime, perhaps one of the two detectives Dan & Dave or their colleagues, interspersed with querying or clarifying questions from Yeardley or Zibby.

At times, it’s fuuuuucking brutal; like if Forensic Files was a podcast. These guys will spare no detail, & lay it all out in that very matter of fact way.

One thing I love is they occasionally talk to other involved people, like a victim’s mother, or the dispatcher . It’s usually really good & adds a lot of context to a case.

I dunno if it’s for everyone: but it’s DEF for me.

It’s SO rare that hosts are willing to take a backseat & let the stories be told to them. It’s impressive.

I unsubscribed from Sword & Scale years ago - had no idea the host was such a horrible person but am not surprised.
https://www.tampabay.com/arts-entertainment/want-to-quit-your-job-and-start-a-true-crime-podcast-obscuras-host-did-it-20190703/

yeah Sword & Scale turned me off years ago. Host is a grade-A douchebag.

Oh my bf has said a loootttt about Boudet, he is Not a Popular Man among the indie TC pod community.

"I Love You, Now Die" is extremely compelling

Darknet Diaries has hit a streak of terrific episodes this year, but this one on the financial trader who dug the bunkers underneath his house in Bethesda is outstanding. I had no idea this was the same guy who set fire to hard drives at hacker cons.
ttps://darknetdiaries.com/episode/39/

Crimetown season two is outstanding

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Noida_double_murder_case

watched pt one of the hbo show, its not great just read the wiki if youre interested

god help me I started listening to Wondery’s Mysterious Mr Epstein podcast - it is v good, I really like Lindsey Graham (not that one) as a host, his American Scandal podcast is great.

anyhoo it’s creepy and gross and I cant stop listening...and Real Crime Profile has a crossover series of eps about it. You havent lived til you hear Jim Clemente lose his ~shit~ over the deal Acosta gave Epstein in 2008. I have never heard him so angry (& he is an angry man at the best of times)

Also Kim Goldman (sister of Ron Goldman) has a podcast about the OJ trial & she talks to everyone & it is v good. First ep is v sad, she talks to a lot of Ron’s friends etc. Highly recommend.
c

This is interesting:

https://newrepublic.com/article/155801/favorite-murder-problem

I think it would be hard to listen to MFM and get the sense that your trust in the police (as opposed to a handful of hero cops) should be greater but there’s something increasingly troubling about the way they, and the broader network, looks at justice. The strain of ‘why aren’t people locked up forever / why aren’t people executed’? has been there for a while but it was legit shocking to hear Kilgariff recently talk about a prisoner being murdered by other prisoners as a great piece of moral community justice.

The trend mentioned briefly in the article towards positioning the listener as detective and crowdsourcing investigations is even worse imo. Paul Jensen’s podcast on their network strikes me as deeply irresponsible and dangerous.

I lived just up the street from that Ole's, but moved about a year before the fire.

oh wow :(

I think the fire hit the paint section and then really exploded, and the people killed were blocked by the flames from getting to the exit. I also think one or both of the employees that died were trying to save the grandmother and child.

when i lived in australia i worked w a guy at a commercial laundry who i swear to this day was an arsonist

he was a volunteer firefighter with an uncontrollable temper & zero social skills
he was never, ever on shift when there were fires even when he wasn’t on call (we had a lot of bushfires in our region, much like california). ppl who knew him said he was at at least two huge local fires *before* the crews had even arrived, and he lived the complete opposite direction. i personally saw him leave work a full hour before his shift was over & there was a fire that afternoon. unsurprsingly he got fired for fucking off early, but still… i always wondered

there was more to it than that

arsonists are so heinous to me & .. baffling in upsetting ways. the most awful combination of cowardice & malice

I'm sure this one will be coming to Dateline, 20/20, 48 Hours or a crime podcast soon, if not already being talked about.

This is a very 2022 crime. You got right wing paranoia with guns and the end of the world. A rich politician who has built a prepper doomsday bunker only leading it to be advertised in selling this crazy 6.5 million dollar house and end up getting his daughter killed in a shootout. World is a f'n weird place.

https://foxlexington.com/news/local/jordan-morgan-case-what-we-know-so-far/

not exactly true crime, but still

Molly Lambert (Night Call) has a new podcast that went up today - Heidi World: The Heidi Fleiss Story - also doubles as a history of Los Angeles during that time ie LA’s symbiotic relationship btw underworld + “over world” etc

it’s done in the style of some of the You Must Remember This episodes, with actors/podcasters/friends etc doing the voices of the people involved in the story - it’s pulling mainly from primary source material at the time so lots of direct quotes from all the main players.

Annie Hamilton does the voice of Fleiss - perfectly cast, gives a v good Heidi vibe

first ep’s a little clunky in its structure but i dont care, love that this story is being told

should be a good (cough) deep dive

Am two episodes into Mind Over Murder on HBOMax and it is really unique & well done

Examines a 1985 murder in a tiny town in Nebraska where 6 people were somehow charged & later exonerated … while the director also stages a community theater “documentary play” in the town, with the townfolk, based on the trial & interview transcripts etc

dunno where the heck its going but i like it

No love for Phoebe Judge's Criminal?

I used to like Truth & Justice, when it was about trying to undo wrongful convictions. Now, it's pretty much all about unsolved murders, and while I admired Bob Ruff's work on behalf of the wrongfully convicted, he's just not that good a host.

i enjoy Criminal! phoebe is great

I'm totally into Phoebe Reads a Mystery. Her voice is enchanting.

Brand new this week: “The Sunshine Place”: New podcast that goes deep into Synanon (produced by RDJ & his wife)

I’ve listened to the first 2 eps and am impressed by the amount of detail & it’s use of mainly primary sources. Long interviews with members & family members. Host is daughter of a Synanon couple.

Incldes interview w a 95 year old (!) survivor, who joined Synanon all the way back in 1960. Maybe the only one left from that time. She’s remarkable, and so lucid - she truly sounds like she’s about half that age irl.

Hoping for something in the general vicinity of the Heaven’s Gate series by Glynn Washington? Maybe that’s a big ask, idk. That for for me is still the only series about a cult that felt different, and interesting, and like it was saying something new. We’ll see.

Synanon has a lot of interesting & weird aspects to it & a lot of just straight bugfuck nuts stuff (snakes in the mail!) so i’m already intrigued by the inside stories from ppl who were in it rather than just “OMG THIS IS SO CRAZY” secondhand retellings of wikipedia articles

Just now getting around to “Black Bird” on Apple+

Only 3 eps in but really well done - wasn’t familiar w the true story but can def see why they picked it for adaptation, wild. Hauser is creepy as hell, so weird to see him like this - i mainly think of him as the home depot guy from Cobra Kai lol

I’ve always been a big fan of Lehane’s novels, his attention to detail & ear for dialogue def serves this show well

The investigative reporting series Reveal is rerunning its coverage of US rehab joints exploiting clients as free labor, with the story of Synanon as role model, with one link being a guy who was actually in Synanon, and later started Cenikor---late in interviews with a very early Synanoneer, he says he remembers the Cenikor cowboy, Luke, but dies before they can find out more. Lots of careful detail about the original organization and follow-ups, which are still with us as an industry, despite some corporate cock-ups (deaths etc.)https://revealnews.org/american-rehab/

Lots of interviews, transcripts as well as podcasts:

So, like Synanon leader, Chuck Dederich said, experimental society. One thing about communal living, it means lots of intimate aspects of life are known by and influenced by the community. Since Phil brought up relationships, let’s talk about it. When Lynn met Phil for the first time, she was already going steady with another square inside Synanon but she caught Phil’s eye, they started talking, they had a leisurely meal in a Synanon dining room. They sat at the bar without any booze and Lynn started to get the feeling that she was into Phil, but before she could tell her boyfriend that she wanted to see someone else, she stepped into a game. One where other players had already seen her have this flirtatious meal with Phil, so they laid into her. It was the most gossipy parts of life institutionalized.

*nursery* days, that should be!

My Favorite Nurder

typos aside, this looks really interesting. I'll check it out.

I can’t decide if I like “Welcome To Chippendales” on hulu or not

kumail & murray are really good as banerjee & de noia
but it also feels way too long?
& tonally confused, like full musical numbers & comedy & idk idk

who killed robert wone? on peacock was p good

casefile has a new episode up today on Sherri Papini

not ashamed to admit i mashed “download” immediately
i am what i am

Didn’t realize until earlier today that HBO was about to start a four part documentary adaptation of Elon Green’s _Last Call_, easily one of the best books in the field I’ve read in a while precisely because it was the stories of those who died that were centered first. Pleased to say that the first episode sticks to that well plus adding further context from good and appropriate voices. Recommended.

Yeah, I also thought the book was great and am looking forward to watching the series.

i’ll def check it out! thx

Last Call is now complete to watch, and again, I really strongly suggest watching it. It's very well done and very moving (and infuriating).

Excellent interview here:

https://www.vulture.com/article/last-call-anthony-caronna-elon-green-interview.html

And again, I highly recommend the book.

Monday night, HBO aired the first of three installments in its documentary series Murder in Boston: Roots, Rage & Reckoning. Directed by Jason Hehir (who made The Last Dance), it's about the October 1989 murder of Carol Stuart. The murder was originally reported by her husband, Charles, as a carjacking by a Black assailant in which they had both been shot. She died, as did the baby she was carrying. By January, Charles' brother confessed that he had assisted Charles in murdering his wife and that Charles' own injury was essentially a misdirect; the carjacker never existed. In the intervening months, a manhunt had resulted in the police stopping, searching and harassing large numbers of Black men in Boston, one of whom they even arrested. Charles Stuart identified him as the — as it turns out — fictional murderer, then took his own life shortly after his brother gave him up to the police.

There is an obvious way this series could have gone: exacting detail on the Stuarts, their families, how beautiful Carol was, how it all went wrong — on other words, on Charles' decision to kill her and his brother's decision to turn him in. Instead, it wisely focuses not on the murder itself, but on the police investigation, both its origins and the deep scars it left. The bulk of the first installment is spent on the history of segregation and racism in Boston, with particular focus on the ugly protests against busing as a way to desegregate public schools. It's a bit of a salutary bait-and-switch, seeming like another true-crime story, but really taking this case and using it as only one example of much broader problems. The result is far more satisfying and substantial.

i want to watch this! - dont have hbo anymore but will def grab it