The long overdue _Blade Runner_ thread

imo replicant "humanity" or lack of a soul, however you address it is an evolution of self, not some sort of physiological difference between a born human and a manufactured biotech human replica

they feel real to themselves and others is completely right -- the majority of 2049 is K grasping for a soul while feeling unworthy of the attention of anyone more real than a hologram. he's got a facsimile life, including a facsimile wife. he doesn't feel worthy of the attention of a fellow replicant unless she's wearing his holographic companion as a veil so he can lie to himself and somehow make the experience less real

brb got to find a link on my phone

need to edit out the overwrought bits that appear after I have a couple beers and write:
http://supermod3rn.tumblr.com/post/170002056519/blade-runner-2049-the-man-with-two-fathers

yeah 'evolution of self' is a good way to put it - both ana and wallace are trying to make better replicants psychologically and physically but their efforts are kinda misguided and/or unnecessary; replicants seem perfectly capable of bootstrapping their way into a humanity or a soul based on the development of their own experiences and feelings

they've never seen a miracle, wouldn't understand it if they did

ha, yeah

neither of them know that ana is the miracle wallace is searching for, that's for sure

i really liked your tumblr thoughts btw!

I think that's the thing that makes the throwaway "I'm the best one" line from Luv worth something -- she really thinks she's the best replicant, that this Wallace-like disaffectation is the end state of replicant emotion

K's resurgent because he's not the best replicant, he's just a better person

The unspoken thing at the end of the original film is, despite his violence, Roy Batty's the most human character in the story

I really think Wallace was loathsome (and not just for the try-hard Leto acting) because his end goal for replicants really was "like Luv, but can make babies"

as for the home release of this film, I would like the people who put it together to explain why each of the shorts has the Villeneuve intro when he says pretty much the same thing each time

HELLO, DENIS HERE AGAIN. I MADE BLADE RUNNER 2049 AND HERE IS A SHORT INSPIRED BY THAT FILM BY ONE OF MY FRIENDS

yeah, wallace's explicitly-stated goal for producing fertile replicants is so that he can colonise more worlds, more quickly - he has no interest at all in their interior lives beyond using ana's work to make them more docile, productive workers

luv and k at the end are basically polar opposites - you're right, luv wants to be the best servant she can be (but her tears show that she's fighting back her human responses) and k has abandoned the role he was built for in favour of embracing his humanity entirely

The unspoken thing at the end of the original film is, despite his violence, Roy Batty's the most human character in the story

and not just the most human, the most alive - he's crushing the last bitter drops out of his four-year lifespan

'it's a shame she won't live - but then again who does' is a brilliantly double-edged line for that reason

tbh K's facsimile life is a little too human and relatable in its own way

"yeah, wallace's explicitly-stated goal for producing fertile replicants is so that he can colonise more worlds, more quickly "

Well yeah, like all gods

xp sad otm to that one :(

we see k taking a lot of abuse from his neighbours as he trudges home and it did occur to me that their lives are probably even less fulfilling than his - always useful to have someone else to punch down at though

Weird that people are always bringing up replicants' emotional reactions like it's something surprising. It's shown over and over again in both movies that replicants are more emotionally labile than humans.

The posts and think pieces linked above already hashed this point out, but I think worrying about whether replicants are "real boys" is either a red herring or missing the point. The central question of the movies isn't whether replicants can be as real as humans, it's whether they already are more real than humans (have more personhood, or whatever)

Don't think so tbh

It's an exploration of whether deciding or believing it is the critical factor, or whether you must impose the acceptance of it on the environment

what is 'it'? replicant humanity?

vs de facto replicant supremacy, I mean

imo it's a reasonable reflection of people trying to get bogged down in semantics about what compromises "being human" from a technical definition

I'm not going to delve too deeply into this particular can of worms, but I was reading some social media comments about transgender individuals "not being real women/men" because you can't change chromosomes, and it's basically the same replicant/human purity test of being able to scan someone's eyeball to say definitely "yes this is a replicant and not a human"

Ah that is a very good comparison!

When I said 'supremacy' above, I meant it in the 'better at being a human person' sense rather than the 'squish the homo sapiens fragile little bodies' sense

I dunno if it's worth considering that ALL of these characters are simulacra whose internal states are inferred from their actions and dialogue onscreen - the layering of what's human, what are the criteria and how can we tell applies equally to the artifice of cinema. OK I'll stop there.

I promise I'll catch up on all the other spoiler posts but I finally just watched 2049 tonight and I cannot BELIEVE anybody had a nice thing to say about this movie. It's 130 minutes of storyboards, lovingly rendered in 3-point perspective, with 3 pantone dots next to each shot so everyone knows what shades are permitted besides black. I have never felt more like I was looking at a movie rather than watching it. The score, whenever it decides to show up, is just overwhelming pads - this was a nice quirk of the original, and set it apart, but done as blatant homage it's just lazy and distracting.

There were about 20 minutes where I gave a shit what happened to K and Deckard and then 10 minutes later it was oh well not really and WHY THE FUCK WAS JARED LETO EVEN IN THIS

also the dimbulb police chief (Robin Wright. of course. Why does anyone like this woman? She's terrible in everything) who got killed for no reason in the second act - was she specifically directed to read every line as "you know, that terrible chief of detectives from all bad crime tv ever" - what's the excuse for that?

I was rolling my eyes about once every two or three minutes by the time K laid his head down on the very well-drawn snow-covered stair steps, and then when they cut to the credits I was finally sure - this is a student film. It's exactly like they took a 3rd year undergrad and gave him Gosling and Ford and a shitload of cash and went "let's just do it and be heroes. it's a moving picture, not moving words."

All of this bodes extremely well for Villeneuve's take on Dune. I fully expect him to leave another friendly animal stranded in a wasteland and not explain anything, like the gifted auteur that he is.

Jesus christ fuck this film.

jared leto wants to achieve THIS
one-eyed replicant revolutionary lady wants to achieve THAT
blade runner K wants to discover who he IS

GUESS WHAT? JOEKS it's just about harrison ford meeting a nameless character who has two scenes including the one where harrison ford meets her

I hate this movie a lot

noted, thanks

tombot i luv u but i must challenge u to a duel

Just recently saw this and thought it was surprisingly great. Only skimmed this thread. Picked up that Tombot thinks an abomination. But I’m not a fkn Hard Sci Fi dude and I don’t give a shit about picking apart plot points, just totally succeeded as an aesthetic extension of the original and it was a sequel that seemed to justify itself. If you re-rolled the dice on a Big Budget Blade Runner sequel in this movie climate a few dozen times I don’t think you’d get something more thoughtful or well done than this.

Also outside of the fucking incredible production design, sfx, cinematography, music, look/feel, Hauer monologue, etc. I don’t think og Blade Runner is exactly a rock solid masterpiece of a film so... I’m not precious about it. Surely will invalidate my opinion above but hey.

All movies are just made up characters doing things fyi

It's kinda funny this film never got its own thread

it is after all the better of the blade runner movies

Ok Robin Wright was kind of bad, and the film spent way too much on Gosford’s face. But the atmosphere , the colors, the city at night sequences , are all at the center of my wheelhouse and the film was a delicious little gummy bear imho. And Mackenzie Davis is a babe and a half.

What would you even do with an extra half a babe I wonder

ed gein to thread

idk what movie tombot watched

i mean he’s right that robin wright has to deliver real clunkers whenever she’s in the film i guess

Maybe that's what she was programmed to do.

Rabbit hole: are actors really human?

if anything this movie overexplains its extremely overwrought plot but i think it’s still primarily about “blade runner k wants to discover who he IS” + harrison ford actually delivering a good performance + all of the emotional content of the film revolving around the question “what is real” (e.g. joi) which sounds real basic but was the most captivating part of the movie for me + overwhelming environments and mood that the plot can’t ruin. it’s good, it’s the first time i’ve liked a villeneuve movie

i liked gosling in this too which surprised me bc i watched it a few days after la la land where he’s just a menace

Maelstrom is worth seeing imo (though it's been a while)

and I kind of liked Incendies as an insanely OTT Greek-myth update

None of the dots connect in this movie. I get that if you just watch it as a visual tone poem or whatever it’s probably fine but after a certain point all the lingering just felt like I was being strung along. And then it turned out I was, because nothing that happened felt like it had any weight or significance, roll credits.

overwrought plot

I don’t think there was much that was wrought at all

come on they hold your hand through the whole thing, that’s what i mean

but i’m still confused bc literally all of the dots connect in this movie

La la land also great

tombot you’re killing me here

just felt like I was being strung along. And then it turned out I was, because nothing that happened felt like it had any weight or significance, roll credits

just like K