― alex in mainhattan, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Ned back me up here
― John Darnielle, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
i love it when people try to "disprove" my point about influence by saying that someone sounds like someone else and probably listened to him a lot: YES I KNOW THAT!! SO WHAT!! WHAT HAVE YOU ACTUALLY SAID JOHN? OF WHAT CONSEQUENCE OR INTEREST IS THAT? The reason "influence" does not exist is that EVERYONE stops right at the point where you have to say the interesting thing: viz WHY IT IS EVEN SLIGHTLY RELEVANT THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED THAT?? if there is a point ever being made with "influence" talk, why is it never reached?
― mark s, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Norman Phay, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Evidently only because you say so, Mark, which isn't sporting: Ian McC's vocal style never comes into being without a model, any more than trigonometry can avoid the influence of triangles
― Michael Daddino, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
i shall draw a veil of the trig-triangle sentence, since it introduces a NEW and hitherto UNRECOGNISED usage of influence which will merely add to our griefs...
by which I mean that the semantic difficulty seems a personal issue -- Ian McC models his delivery on Morrison's, Morrison influences McC -- the glass is half-empty, the glass is half-full
the ppl an artist influences are the ones who go on to do nothing but listen passively; the ones who go on to do things themselves are the ones s/he NO LONGER influences
1) when I talk about influence I am talking about what an artist does with his/her models -- how he/she puts them into play, NOT describing some situation in which say Ian Curtis flexes his scrawny muscles FROM THE GRAVE
2) when I am describing somebody who has elected to model themselves after another and not done something interesting with it I tend to use the word "damage" and urge others to do likewise and
3) there is a need for more vodka around here, who's with me
I do not hate the Doors.
I do not exactly love them either.
I am not ashamed to say that I once loved them.
Plus: Had the Doors never happened, Kyle MacLachlan would've never been able to play Ray Manzarek in a funny movie like The Doors.
― Andy K, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Norman this is heresy...Ned back me up here
I am much more of a Cure fan than an Echo fan, to be sure -- whereas I scrounged Napster and the like for every last Cure rarity I could find, I just let the Echo box set do that for me, see. And I'm much more prone to putting on Faith than Heaven Up Here etc. -- but I fully sympathize with where Norman is coming from. My good friend Karen feels the same way; Echo were one of 'her' bands when growing up in the eighties, though I'd have to ask her to delineate the full reasons why she has said preference (then again, she might find the thread and do that for me!).
Suffice to say that Echo have their own particular brilliance I will not deny. But Bob and company are on a higher plane for me. :-)
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sean Carruthers, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I don't know if it's been mentioned much in this (long now!) thread, but it seems to me like a lot of the things people hate about the Doors are painfully similar to all kinds of rock-n-roll romanticism and sexuality and druggy hedonism.
― Josh, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― maryann, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Queen G of the pinched nerve in her neck, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I think Oliver Stone has done more to perpetuate Doors hate than any real Doors detractor ever has. Just thinking about that movie annoys me.
― Nicole, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― alex in mainhattan, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
You people didn't go into The Doors w/ the right attitude. Yes it's awful but I found it very funny.
― Andy K, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ben Williams, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Josh, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
The soundtrack helped as well.
― Julio Desouza, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Plus it has Meg Ryan, and anything with Meg Ryan in it is pure evil.
Even Kyle McLachlan can't save it, and he is the king of movies people think are rub but are secretly brilliant (Showgirls, Dune, etc.).
― mark s, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
But i like the movie. I don't care if Oliver stone gave the wrong impression/whatever.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Lord Custos III, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Actually, that doesn't surprise me in the least. Historically speaking, RS has been notorious for carrying on ridiculous turf grudges: overrating SF bands while poo-pooing L.A. bands like the Beach Boys, and the like.
― Michael Daddino, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Andrew, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link