British Folk (and Revival)

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i do think the vashti is a bit thin on the ground but has some really great, haunting moments. totally different beast to the debut but like that's any big surprise

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:09 (eighteen years ago) link

i don't know what the greatful dead sound like

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:09 (eighteen years ago) link

I've not even heard her first one! I thought she was bloody awful on that Jools Holland show tho.

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:09 (eighteen years ago) link

not necessarily folk but i'd throw in Alexander Tucker in with Voice of the Seven Woods who are doing it right. NOt just straight up copyists. I liked Gravenhurst but still haven't listened to their new album.

i think with Vashti -- it has that hip 'quotient' ... nobody dareth say that the album was dull as fuck because you know, its like VASHTI, and its like so awesome she recorded something.

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:11 (eighteen years ago) link

... it's the Patti Smith Syndrome

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:12 (eighteen years ago) link

exactly. i liked just another diamond day but the new one? c'mon? haunting? i was only haunting by how boring it was. if she never recorded another note after just another diamond day than it would have been a perfect legacy.

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:13 (eighteen years ago) link

jeez if you want to talk boring then continue on the "perfect legacy" trip

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:14 (eighteen years ago) link

(Someone criticised VB on here many moons ago and received a not-very-impressed email from La Bunyan herself, I understand. How exciting!)

I prefer the second Steeleye Span LP to the first, and I prefer both to Liege and Lief.

Hello Doomie!

Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:14 (eighteen years ago) link

anyway frankly i blame max richter for any life sucked out of those songs. his own album was tedious in the extreme.

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I couldn't get on with the first Vashti album at all. Way too sweet and sickly for me. Not sure there's much point in me tracking down the new one.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:16 (eighteen years ago) link

deal. as long as i don't have to hear lucky luke again.

its funny re: patti smith. i remember in 87 i heard about her and i was like i have to hear some of this music and i went out and bought ... the book of life?? something like that? and it was so dull. i didnt buy another patti smith album for five years.

(Someone criticised VB on here many moons ago and received a not-very-impressed email from La Bunyan herself, I understand. How exciting!)

Folk divas. I can't think of anything more boring! Hey Tim!

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:16 (eighteen years ago) link

anyways, i think i like 'folk music' when it sounds like the band from the poseidon adventure rather than steeleye span!

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:20 (eighteen years ago) link

i've been shrugging at Bunyan for months now. but i find her debut insipid too.

REALLY curious about Alexander Tucker.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:23 (eighteen years ago) link

sean, alexander tucker mixes ye olde folk with the dynamics of SUNN0)) ... i think he was the guitarist for them. totally freaked me out. just buy the album!

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:25 (eighteen years ago) link

does anyone have an opinion about michael chapman?

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought Alexander Tucker was a Brit? Or am I getting confused and thinking of someone else? Still haven't heard him anyway.

Anyone like Anne Briggs? Both squiffier and pithier than VB I think, though inhabiting a lot of the same territory.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought Alexander Tucker was a Brit? Or am I getting confused and thinking of someone else? Still haven't heard him anyway.

yeah, he is. and he's like some fucked up guitar god! i can only think of him and voice of the seven woods ... i've seen so many bad contemporay uk folk acts ... devendra banhart has alot to answer for (and i like devendra banhart!)

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:32 (eighteen years ago) link

If you mean 60s Anne Briggs - well, I'm not really a big fan of accapella folk singing, I can only really take it in small doses. That 70s album she did was OK, not great. I preferred Bert Jansch singing her songs (or Johnny Moynihan/Sweeney's Men)

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:32 (eighteen years ago) link

If you mean 60s Anne Briggs - well, I'm not really a big fan of accapella folk singing, I can only really take it in small doses. That 70s album she did was OK, not great. I preferred Bert Jansch singing her songs (or Johnny Moynihan/Sweeney's Men)

yeah, i'd have to agree. i got some micheal chapman albums and still not sure what to think ... was he just a proto-david gray!!

doomie x, Friday, 16 December 2005 11:34 (eighteen years ago) link

i feel kinda bad for Sixteen Horsepower that a bunch of the american folkies are totally stealing their schtick.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:36 (eighteen years ago) link

x-posts: This one?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000JAXS.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Aww, I think it's wonderful. I'm almost as fond of that as Shirley Collins. Someone else that refuses to sing anymore. Why was there this sudden loss of confidence in these people?

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:40 (eighteen years ago) link

See, I'm not that big a fan of Shirley Collins (HERESY! KILL THE UNBELIEVER!)... I like her music, but I don't like her voice all that much

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:42 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean, for instance, I love "Love, Death and the Lady" but Shirley's voice is what I love least

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm almost as fond of that as Shirley Collins. Someone else that refuses to sing anymore. Why was there this sudden loss of confidence in these people?

... and Linda Thompson!

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Fuckin' hell Dada, we really do think the same way about this stuff - I mean I like Shirley Collins, and I'd much rather listen to her voice than most others, but, y'know, a little goes a long way, particularly with the sparse backing that a lot of her albums have. That's why No Roses is such a winner, it puts her voice in a totally different context to most of her work. And I think I said it on a Davey Graham thread recently, but their album just sounds like a weird fusion to me (not in a bad way). Which is the album done mostly on medieval instruments? That's the one I need.

myopic_void (myopic_void), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:51 (eighteen years ago) link

"Anthems In Eden"

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 11:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Alexander Tucker plays, or played, in Ginnunagap with Stephen O'Malley and some other people. I've spelt that band name wrong by the way.

Voice of the Seven Woods is one of the best things I've heard this year. I hope he comes and plays near me soon

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 16 December 2005 13:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Damn, I'll have to try and find some Ginnungagap - what I've heard I've loved. Not folky, but there's a nice mp3 here.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 13:36 (eighteen years ago) link

i wen't soulseek crazy last night and sampled a bunch of the artists on this thread. stll haven't gotten around to listening to all of it.

so far: shirley collins and nic jones are GREAT. i got on reccomendation a shirley collins album with davy graham and i have listened twice, i love it. i have one of graham's solos, but no listen yet.

the espers vs lucky luke faux debate: esprs win by miles...i downloaded lucky luke and i do really like it, but it just doesn't measure up and sound as, um, "good". i guess you folk experts can rip me to shreds if i'm wrong.

i found this, too: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/spinning/episodes/05282004

from the espers.org site...

it's espers doing a really beautiful and haunting radio set and then playing some of thier favorite songs from other artists....more to add to my searchlist.

peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 14:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Recommend add "Handful of Earth" by Dick Gaughan to your searchlist - an album I have never once managed to listen to without crying (tho it helps if you're Scottish or Irish)

http://www.moorsmagazine.com/images3/gaughanhandful.jpg

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link

thanks! some guy on soulseek reccomended a scottish guy named owen hand, said the same thing about crying. i hope i can find it.

peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 14:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Dadaismus totally seconded on that Dick Gaughan record. First came across it when June Tabor played 'Craigie Hill' as her choice of her favourite track on some radio programme. An extraordinary and heart-stopping performance that, I think. Have you got any of his other stuff? Any good?

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:20 (eighteen years ago) link

My parents love Dick Gauhagn, and what I remember from around the house is great. (He does a great vsn of "Turn Turn Turn", too.)

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:22 (eighteen years ago) link

I've got a couple of his earlier albums - they're probably a bit more hardcore than "Handful", they have unaccompanied songs fr'instance, but full of greatness - I love that socialist song about blacksmiths on the Don in Scotland and on the Don in Russia, "Horo Ghillie Mor" or sumthin'

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:27 (eighteen years ago) link

... for some reason, Irish and Scots folk music doesn't seem to be as hip these days as English folk (and yes, I know, Bert Jansch and ISB and John Martyn are all Scottish). Of course a lot of the songs are the same.

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Okay. BTW that guy is a ferocious musician. The one time I saw him, he played the shit out of his guitar. Not in a muso fiddly-diddly way, but he just made every string sing out loud.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Is Richard Thompson vaguely Scottish too?

NickB (NickB), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:30 (eighteen years ago) link

one thing i think we can all agree on is that the young tradition had the coolest logo. that combined y and t. very proto-industrial in a way. like throbbing gristle or missing foundation. they were ahead of their time. i still need to hear their album *galleries*.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:31 (eighteen years ago) link

That Alexander Tucker was a slow grower for me. I think it's pretty damn great now. I think the voice threw me off at first.

I think an act needs to come along with the songwriting CHOPS to really do justice to updating the British Folk. Like some sorta Pentangle meets Sonic Youth band. Or Kevin Sheilds meets Shirley Collins. That would be interesting.

There's so much attention being paid to so many strands of music right now, that the effect of the song is being diluted. This applies to a ton of the US free folk stuff. Everyone is discovering early 70s Japanese stuff, European free improv, the more obscure strains of Krautrock, and all this crazy private press English folk and psych, and before they've digested it, they've attempted to synthesize it in their output.

Perhaps this bodes well for some really cool music in the next 5 years. The rediscovery of all this great music has taken place, and now artists are going to be able to soak it up and turn it into something new.

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Yep, Richard Thompson's dad was Scottish. Ha, I remember when I first got into folk stuff (I dunno, about 10 years ago) and I got such a lot of stick from guys in Glasgow, "English folk music? What's that? They don't have any folk music do they?" or "Oh you mean like Morris dancing music?"

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:35 (eighteen years ago) link

... I rather suspect a lot of them are listening to Shirley Collins now!

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Why isn't anyone talking about June Tabor? I like her, but not nearly as much as I LOVE Shirley Collins.

Does anyone have Within Sound, Shirley's boxset? I'm wondering if I should buy it, since I already have all of her albums that I could find.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Is there a red hot comp or sampler suitable for an old punk to sample the likes of S&D Collins, Fairport and other good stuff? PAsh and Dada are generally OTM about most things, so I'm curious. I once had a June Tabor recd, but ditched it. Likewise The Oyster Band, which was a bit of a wrong move I think because it was good. Also I was once in the bargain basement at Recd and Tape Exchange and the guy behind the counter was playing what I took to be Fairport, although I didn't ask, something about a soldier's body? It might have been a live LP. It was absolutely fantastic - a stately rolling beat with *really* great bass and drums and circling guitar. I don't think it was S.Denny on vox, but what do I know - I'm an old punk? I wish I'd asked.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Also -- who's read Shirley's book, America Over the Water? I have. It's pretty good, interesting to hear about the Lomax recordings and Shirley's girlhood. Wistful in a way, too, since she was so young and impressionable.

I don't know of any comps, but I'm sure someone here could make you one.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Not "transform you into one" but "make one for you." Of course.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link

i know what you mean about the chops part. i recently got to see this guy jack rose play in philadelphia and he was so great. i guess he gets thrown into the new folk group. when i saw him, i realized that a lot of the stuff i have seen or heard associted with this stuff, while really good, doesn't have that killer musicianship that often comes with the folk territiry (something i felt jack rose had). i'm a really big devendra banhart fan, but have seen him three times now and don't think he or his band are particularly "amazing" in terms of chops (though i still love it anyway!!!). so far, the only bands i have seen that have that is jack rose, espers (they really do, that one girl who sings is such an amazing guitar player, the whole band is so great) and some guy i asw when i was living in california named nick castro - i wasn't into his music, but the guy was insanely talented.

peter x (bucksbreeze), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

You can't really go wrong with that old "History of Fairport Convention" compilation - the one with the family tree on it. Shirley Collins' stuff is a bit varied for a concise comp.

We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link

"There's so much attention being paid to so many strands of music right now, that the effect of the song is being diluted. This applies to a ton of the US free folk stuff. Everyone is discovering early 70s Japanese stuff, European free improv, the more obscure strains of Krautrock, and all this crazy private press English folk and psych, and before they've digested it, they've attempted to synthesize it in their output."

OTM! They want to run before they can walk. sometimes this can work. there is something to be said for youthful hubris and ambition. for me, the tower recordings might have come closest. they were always trying something new years ago and they could play. and they had good songs. i don't know, not everyone is trying to do the same thing, i suppose. they might be inspired by pentangle, but know that they will never be able to play like them. something good can still come of pentangle-love.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Doc, the forthcoming "Anthems In Eden" 4CD comp mentioned upthread, because the stuff I know on there is very good, and there is plenty of stuff I don't know. And it'll be avbout twenty quid, which seems fair.

Milkmaid, I bought the 4CD Shirley set because I was beginning to love her and I didn't have any of the LPs. Also it was £25 and that seemed the right kind of price to be paying. Plus it was a bad day and I needed cheering up. It's a very nice thing, but I'm not sure I'd want to invest if I had all the proper LPs.


Tim (Tim), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I had a great 4 album brit folk/revival boxed set from the 70's, but i think i sold it. and i can't remember what label it was on. all the usual suspects were on it, plus old-timers. great informative booklet too with all kinds of history. i wish i still had it.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 16 December 2005 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link


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