The Beatles

Average?

Distinctly.

If something wasn’t released it can’t be in the public domain, can it ?

The copyright extension release thread (w/r/t EU copyright law)

https://66.media.tumblr.com/7da9f7083016c4d9134a4a0b3bd73aab/tumblr_py4owqLs8H1r4y7nzo1_1280.png

Don't think I can buy any theory with only one Paul, sorry

you'e overlooking dilfman

"forbidden beatles" is an amazing phrase/caption

sad that www.thebeatlesneverexisted.com appears to be gone

Hey, how about those Beatles?

Anyway, I've always been fascinated by the concept of "Beatlesesque," which is to say, music that sounds like the Beatles without sounding *like* the Beatles. That is to say, there are elements to the music that bring to mind the Beatles without directly ripping off a specific Beatles song, which implies there are really identifiable traits to the Beatles music that can be imitated. I was talking to a friend about ELO, for example. Of course they sound *like* the Beatles, but what is it about them exactly that sounds like the Beatles? My friend figured at first it was about the chord progressions. The Beatles, he noted, especially early on, ingeniously discovered a bazillion variations of the doo wop chord progression, which ended up a lot of (music nerds correct me) V-IV-ii progressions. But more conspicuous was those descending, kind of sneering Lennon-y wall of backing answer vocals that you hear in songs like "Turn to Stone." (Or, hey, in Billy Joel's "My Life," or lots of Aimee Mann, or Sam Phillips, etc.) You hear those backing vocals, and you immediately think of the Beatles. But what specific Beatles song or songs are they aping? We were kind of stumped.

Stuff like the 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 part from the end of "You Never Give Me Your Money"... "Because" "Carry That Weight" etc.?

The Beatles

The strings on "I Am The Walrus".

A couple of years ago I was asked to drum on some covers of songs from the King's X album "Please Come Home Mr. Bulbous," which were described to me as "Beatlesesque."

"Marsh Mellow Field," for example, does sound in places like a pastiche of Sgt. Pepper stuff, but without copying any specific song. And it isn't really the chord progressions. More the texture: a combination of guitar jangle plus expansive 'verby vocals with a sort of dreamy slurry Lennonesque treatment in the second half of each verse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LWgoFyWv5Y

I was not familiar with this music and I had no love for it, but I was able to muddle through the project and move on with my musical life.

I still keep thinking specifically of those Jeff Lynne backing vocals, on ELO albums but also the things he produced. Yeah, they are very much in the slurry Lennon vein, but what's the best John Lennon example of the slurry Lennon backing vocals?

Or maybe because it is so conspicuous, the Beatles breakdown in Billy Joel's My Life. Sounds like The Beatles, but what Beatles song does it sound like? What is it referencing, specifically?

Another side road we went down is that when people rip off the Beatles or do something that is Beatlesesque, they are generally talking about John Lennon, or maybe George Harrison. I can't think of any acts that particularly sound like Paul McCartney. Squeeze?

I thought years ago that Beatlesque pastiches were often more indebted to Harrison's songs, partly because he's a more formulaic writer, and hence easier to emulate. Minor-key descending chord progressions, melodies that are catchy but not as complex as Paul's, major/minor key changes but nothing too out of the ordinary. One example is "No Myth" by Michael Penn (which features slide guitar as well).

I think of Nilsson as the first songwriter to emulate McCartney's writing in particular, as opposed to the Beatles in general. Emmit Rhodes did too, around the same time, and his voice sounds like Paul's as well.

A striking Lennon-in-'67 emulation is "Baron Saturday" by the Pretty Things.

As for Beatles songs with nasal John backing vox - "You Won't See Me", "Paperback Writer", "Taxman", "She Said She Said"...

Around the late '90s and '00s, there was a lot of good music inspired by the Beatles' mid-'60s records, and that definitely extends to McCartney's work and his own ideas on those records. Fountains of Wayne, Apples in Stereo (that wasn't meant to be a pun, was it?), Jay Bennett-era Wilco, the Flaming Lips, etc.

TBH, I'm not an ELO fan or a Billy Joel fan - obviously they loved the Beatles and consciously looked to them for inspiration, but there's also a lot about their music that's unique theirs that I never liked.

*uniquely theirs

Some of the Fiery Furnaces’ songwriting (and Matt F. solo) has been compared to McCartney, but I guess more post-Beatles McCartney.

I like ELO, but I'm not Billy Joel fan, yet in "My Life" it's about as blatantly Beatles-y as it gets.

xposts Yeah, for sure, lots of example of Lennon backing vox, but I'm thinking not of general Lennon vox but very specifically of the kind of sliding answer vocal Lynne resorts to all the time in ELO. Is its root ultimately mostly just in "Because?"

To post another example I alluded to earlier, Aimee Mann. Take a (lovely) song like "Save Me."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72fDsC2kX7g

About as "Beatlesesque" as it gets, for lots of reasons: Mellotron, that bass, the chords, the guitar solo/electric lead part. But also those same sneering Lennon answer vocals in the chorus at around the two minute mark.

Funny, I never thought about it, but I guess a lot of Billy Joel owes a lot to Macca.

What about the backing vox in the last verse of "Hello Goodbye"?

Two blatantly Beatlesque songs come to mind: In My Own Time by the Bee Gees and What in the World by Dukes of Stratosphear.

Both definitely seem like they're aping Lennon's style with the vocal melodies, while also trying emulate Paul's bass playing.

There is an AI generated “Beatles” album. It is not good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZu24pddzwk

Paging "Sowing the Seeds of Love" to thread

The Bee Gees were even better at this than ELO. If only Shakey was still around to disagree with me.

"Hello Goodbye" for sure has some of those backing vocal stylings, but it's kind of subtle compared to what Jeff Lynne does. Then again, most things are.

"In My Own Time" definitely sounds like the Beatles, as do a lot of Bee Gees songs, but it's more overt, in that I know exactly what it sounds like (Taxman, mostly).

"Sowing the Seeds of Love" is an interesting one, because it's such a hodgepodge. Some of the most overt Beatles-y stuff - like the lead trumpet - comes off as direct callback, but the rest of it is more generalized psychedelic '60s pop pastiche, kind of.

Traveling Wilburys is an interesting example, especially a song like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarURT-pH8o

Which is of course literally a fusion of George Harrison and Jeff Lynne.

Speaking of Lynne and the Wilburys, Tom Petty's "Into the Great Wide Open" is an interesting example, because he's a guy who generally *doesn't* sound like the Beatles, but this song totally does, from the chord progression, to the Ringo-y drums, to a few of those backing vocals.

Off the top of my head, "Marley Purt Drive" off 'Odessa' made me think of "Let it be" with every chance that it predates the Beatles song

I was just doing some googling, and I think it was a Steve Hoffman thread that made a few good points. One thing that makes Jeff Lynne's Beatles cops a little elusive is that, as the person said, he writes melodies like McCartney but *sings* them like Lennon, which provides a bit of cognitive dissonance. Then there's also the almost exclusive focus on the 6 month period of The Beatles' "mature psychedelia," which the thread pegged to between A Day In The Life and I Am The Walrus; that stuff is so dense with ideas it doesn't take much to recall it (sometimes just a Mellotron is enough). Another person kind of sagely suggested, re: Beatles references in ELO, that "there's as many as you want there to be." Someone else noted specific ELO songs that sounded like the Beatles, but pointed to "Telephone Line" as them sounding like the Bee Gees sounding like the Beatles.

Years ago I heard a Steve Earle interview where he was making the distinction between bands that sound like the Beatles (like I guess ELO, or XTC, or Badfinger), and bands that sound *like* the Beatles, like Crowded House. There is very little that Neil Finn does that sounds directly linked to the Beatles, but all the same the influence is unmistakable.

Another Beatles thing that pops up a lot is piano marches. Sometimes that's all it takes to bring the band to mind.

I've never thought of XTC as that much like the Beatles really

I mean I see the influence but Partridge has such a unique approach to melody and songwriting, certainly nothing like Jeff Lynne

plus they have a whole career and aesthetic before they got more psych

Extreme's "More Than Words" captures an early Beatles vibe through, I guess, slightly unexpected chord changes and close harmony singing and maybe something about the melody as well

definitely

I have the perfect answer for this, a mix-tape I made for a friend 20 years ago called, yes, "Beatlesque." I've been searching for the songlist--I used to take copies of such things--but can't locate it. (The friend, meanwhile, barely remembers the tape--thanks!) I did mention it, though, when I wrote about my record collection a few years after making the tape (I'm writing about the Move here):

"Message From the Country" was among the songs I included on "Beatlesque," a mix-tape I once compiled for a teacher (and Beatles lover) who was leaving my school. The idea was pretty self-explanatory, with a fluid enough interpretation of Beatlesque to guide me that, along with obvious things like the Knickerbockers and Big Star and Traffic's "Hole in My Shoe," I had "Take the Skinheads Bowling" and Hüsker Dü's "Books About UFOs"--songs that don't sound like the Beatles at all, but which seem to me to capture something fundamental about what they might have been doing had they existed in a different time and different set of circumstances. "Message From the Country" is more of a straightforward soundalike, although I can't point to any one specific period it aligns itself with--White Album-Beatles would be the closest match, I guess.

I haven't completely given up yet on finding the songlist.

Off the top of my head, "Marley Purt Drive" off 'Odessa' made me think of "Let it be" with every chance that it predates the Beatles song

No, it sounds like "The Weight", which it definitely doesn't predate.

End of it sounds like The Kinks

clemenza, fingers crossed you find that songlist - it sounds great! also enjoyed JiC's summary of the SH thread, all of that clicks with me.

I had "Take the Skinheads Bowling" and Hüsker Dü's "Books About UFOs"--songs that don't sound like the Beatles at all, but which seem to me to capture something fundamental about what they might have been doing had they existed in a different time and different set of circumstances.

Interesting, I appreciate this take! Very "All My Loving" sound/spirit to both.

Googling around, it's kind of wild how many songs people consider "Beatles-esque." Like Big Star is *clearly* very influenced by the Beatles, but I don't think much if anything sounds particularly like the Beatles. Something like "Thank You Friends", maybe? But for example, I think "September Gurls" sounds only loosely like the Beatles to my ears, except for maybe the harmonies? Cheap Trick sort of falls under the same category as Big Star.

Extreme's "More Than Words" captures an early Beatles vibe through, I guess, slightly unexpected chord changes and close harmony singing and maybe something about the melody as well.

Surprisingly otm! Also oddly reminiscent at times (if once again loosely so) of Big Star's "The Ballad of El Goodo," another of the more Beatles-esque Big Star songs.

Man, now I want to listen to Big Star.

I'm pretty sure I had Cheap Trick's "Downed" on there, a version of the heavier, late-period Beatles...although maybe "Downed" sounds more like "Message from the Country"--it's very circular and very confusing.

Robin Zander's voice is often compared to Lennon's, and Cheap Trick did "Taxman Mr. Thief", which is almost a direct quote!

better song than taxman tbh

I find "September Gurls" more Motown-influenced, oddly -- something about the way the guitars lock together reminds me Marv Taplin or Funk Brothers.

Posted this on Alex Chilton and Big Star threads in 2019, quoting myself on Twitter quoting Chilton:

radio interview on @BigStarBand's Live at Lafayette's Music Room: AC worries that forthcoming #1 Record is too much like Rundgren, reminding me not to overemph Beatles influences; also T.Rex v. favorably mentioned; both covered here, as on several other live recordings Way to sell the album, perverse AC, confiding your misgivings about it on the radio.

Of course the Beatles were so hugely present on the airwaves and in the stores in mid-60s 'til breakup, with what from anyone else would have been flooding the market, so how could some of their approach not leak into his headphones head, as young studio rat was trying to escape his fabricated Box Tops roots, at least via Rundgren---but also, as xgau mused back in the day, reviewing Radio City:
...the only pop coup I hear is a reminder of how spare, skew, and sprung the Beatles '65 were, which is a coup because they weren't. So: Big Star are alternate Beatles, whose Radio City is among Albums That Never Were, in this (?) alternate universe.

There is an AI generated “Beatles” album. It is not good

Tracks 7 & 8 not horrible!

Also on the Alex Chilton thread, clemenza thinks of Rundgren when he hears the 1970 solo sessions, Grisso/McCain is also reminded of Flying Burrito Brothers,, which fits, since Parsons was so into Buck Owens, who frequently in Beatles era seemed to be in creative crosstalk with them, little bit, but persistently.

Well, Parsons was quoted as saying he wanted to go for something between Owens and the Stones, but w Owens you get Beatles, at least to rockhead ears.

Off the top of my head, "Marley Purt Drive" off 'Odessa' made me think of "Let it be" with every chance that it predates the Beatles song

No, it sounds like "The Weight", which it definitely doesn't predate.

― Waterloo Subset (Tom D.), Sunday, January 31, 2021 3:37 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

It does sound like "The weight", but with the "Let it be" backing rhythm track

here's the xpost post:
Chilton might have been aware of the Nazz at the time of those sessions, which were in 1969 & sorta concurrent to the last Box Tops recordings, both preceding the release of Rundgren's solo stuff.

That Chilton album is quite fascinating w/all the directions the material goes. I can hear strands of CCR, Gram Parsons/Flying Burrito Bros./Byrds, Sir Doug, Flamin' Groovies and more. What a different world it would have been had he been able to get that stuff released at the time. For one thing, Big Star probably wouldn't have happened exactly the way they did, or at all.

― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain)
The name and original conception of the Sir Douglas Quintet came from Huey P. Meux, or at least the way he told it, when he realized how well the nascent SDQ's sound fit w early Beatles, who in part drew from Southwestern US hits.

Wait what 70s solo sessions?