2017_____N–B–A–S–T–A–T–S_____2018

pelicans take the crown for the 2017-18 seasons weirdest team

love when rondo does his completely insane thing

even his two points were off the classic rondo ballfake

Reasons this is wild …

Average shot distance:
Ben Simmons — 6.5 ft.
Jayson Tatum — 12.5 ft.

3-pointers:
Simmons — 0/9
Tatum — 56/115

FG% at the rim (0-3 feet):
Simmons — 73.5%
Tatum — 62.6% https://t.co/QSs5iSdjDF

— Shane Young (@YoungNBA) December 28, 2017

the hornets are simmons rookie of the year chances

Tatum is a baller. #NBARooks pic.twitter.com/NKXjNV2gV8

— NBA (@NBA) December 28, 2017

i dont think simmons is the runway ROY at this point, his #s have been dipping of late. obv taytum is up there, kuzma coming on strong, donovan mitchell as well.

all those weird in between shots simmons takes, well

https://i.imgur.com/FlpQ6G0.png

oof

does nba.com not have shot charts anymore, that site is a mess

i cant visit their site it's too infuriating

its really quite insane

https://i.imgur.com/IVob2BK.png

nba.com and that tweet have him taking 9 3s so far where the charts show 1 and 0 respectively?

https://i.imgur.com/k9ijiYY.png

simmons has the shot distribution of dre jordan who decided to start taking floaters

pretty weird for a point guard

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nba/players/full/3026.png
hello

wow rondo has apparently abandoned the floater, a shot he used to take a lot

https://i.imgur.com/Qc1KKCS.png

i was poking you with the simmons=pg talk.

i remember rondo taking a lot of elbow jumpers w the celts?

lol

https://i.imgur.com/q3s4O2J.png

i was poking you with the simmons=pg talk.

― Spottie, Thursday, December 28, 2017 12:10 PM (forty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha yeah it just occurred to me that there was in fact a point guard weird enough to play like that

the elbow jumper was the one shot he cld hit (in 2010)

yeah he was good at that!

i cant remember what jason kidd was like before he started jacking 3s

i think he always kinda took a lot of threes, and mostly missed them until late in his career, other things he did iirc: unstoppable on the break both with passing and finishing, decent driver in the half court because of strength and handle but a bad finisher because of not great ups and zero scoring touch, missed a ton of shots from everywhere but continued to shoot lol

great defender too, cld guard both backcourt spots

its pretty crazy how high he is in the all time 3 pointers list

https://i.imgur.com/payEHK5.jpg

went through some tuff times in phoenix

bleached tips ruined a lot of lives tbf

yeah the nba stats landscape is a complete mess, baseball is so far ahead of them in terms of making actually interesting stats available to average fans

baseball is so easy to stat

this is true but I was referring to making stats easy to find for fans, like for baseball you basically just need fangraphs, baseball reference, and statcast to be fluent in baseball stat conversations. with basketball half of the stats dudes like zach lowe talk about are either proprietary, you have to pay for it, or it’s spread out over like 20 sites

yeah i just wonder what the issue is as far as supply/demand, feel like a lot of the basketball stats are just not very good and people dont want them

where baseball is just more a natural fit for statistical analysis so its flourished there, and even long before the analytics revolution baseball was always more numbers minded

with basketball stats always need to be contextualized and the best of the new breed are the more granular infos like shot distributions player tracking etc so it makes sense that its filtered through writers to make sense of it all, in contrast to baseball where u can throw out a good catch all stat like WAR thats actually useful, having said that it wld be cool if that granular data was more available and presented in good visualizations etc

yeah the ux is a nightmare, i get to the nba stats site and have no idea where to start or what to click on. bball reference is a little better but it looks like a ten year old site at hie point.

feel like if you're not on a 30" monitor for the nba stats site then dont even bother

so many columns, much rows, very tabular data

love to have the data in front of me

gotta have my datum

baseball has so many isolated, individual actions (batting and pitching) that happen thousands of times in the exact same way over there course of the season

football seems like it's even more difficult for analytics than basketball, like an individual running play - did the back make a great move or power through contact? did the blocking scheme result in a big hole? did an individual o lineman overpower someone? did someone take a bad angle? tackle poorly? misread the play? seems nearly impossible to use analytics in meaningful ways

yeah the current football analytics are horseshit.

yeah and the whole concept of downs really complicates things too, a good football analytics running joke is how footballoutsiders consistently rates the patriots as a middling to good team while they continue to produce the actual greatest results the game has ever seen

nba.com and that tweet have him taking 9 3s so far where the charts show 1 and 0 respectively?

― lag∞n, Friday, 29 December 2017 3:54 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

heaves?

this is an interesting discussion

part of the problem as alluded to upthread is that the baseball stat revolution happened before anyone including teams realized such information was worth being commodified, so bill james, tom tango etc were just working in the public sphere bcuz they had no choice. so pretty much the entire foundation of advanced stats in baseball is publicly available formulas. basketball came after that commodification... ben falk's site is a great example of something that would have been free if it started even 5 years ago.

i do wonder if there's some market for a fangraphs of basketball, basically... a place that centralizes the main advanced stats and publicizes some proprietary info (fangraphs buys info from firms) while also running an editorial site that contextualizes all of that w/ articles. maybe this exists and i don't know about it but it seems like the current relationship b/w basketball writing and basketball stats are sites that publish the stats and then writers that contextualize on mainstream sites or smaller blogs.

seems like "the analytically minded basketball fan" has kinda moved on from advanced stats to understanding basketball plays which is interesting in that it runs contrary to numbers guys hierarchy of knowledge

but i think its correct as far as how basketball functions the scheme is the most fundamental thing its the context on which everything else depends

statistic strives to normalize the scheme in order to make an apples to apples comparison across the league but its just really hard, maybe impossible, and maybe not that useful from a teams perspective for actual basketball business which is interesting

the big catch all stats are failures but the granular data is easily understood within the context of the scheme and is translatable across schemes if you understand the schemes

like is some blackbox defensive metric saying the giannis isnt that good of a defender for who knows what reason, well when we examine the player tracking data it says he is a very good defender in all aspects of the game except on the perimeter, when we look at his perimeter defense it says hes excellent when matched up with his man but struggles when switching, what do we know about the bucks defensive scheme, we know that it encourages tons of chaotic double teams and switching which doesnt work good, from out investigation we can conclude that giannis contrary to what the fancy advanced stat says in is fact likely an excellent defender who is playing in a bad scheme and would thrive in a good one, which not coincidentally is the same conclusion one wld reach by watching him play, thank u this has been my nba stats fan fic

now u cld try to create a stat which notices when everyone on a team tends to struggle in certain areas and labels it scheme and tries to account for it but it prob wldnt work and whats the point anyway like maybe its a scheme issue or maybe its a personnel which is a differentiation which is easy for a human to understand and very difficult for a computer to and youre never going to have a 100% quant basketball team so why not let the computers do the stuff theyre good at and let the humans do the stuff they are, humans are gonna make the decisions anyway