for the piano: Schubert vs. Mozart vs. Chopin

Then you misunderstand my point, which is precisely that form is not a mere architectural plan. It is alive, and it is unpredictable, and it is context-dependent. I get the sense that we agree but are approaching the concept of form from two divergent angles.

If it's context-dependent, then I'm curious what those contexts are that make these sonatas transcendent in ways that Mozart and Chopin are not.

Every musical performance is a singular event that creates a context of its own. Such as Sviatoslav Richter's above. Pollini's readings of Schubert's late sonatas, while incredible in their own right, don't emphasize their 'transcendent' aspects nearly as much.

By the way, I love Chopin (Mozart, not so much, aside from his minor key works, all too rare in his oeuvre).

I thought we were talking about the compositions!

I mentioned above that I think of form (in this context, at least) as stemming from the encounter between score and performance.

OK, I'm just referring back to your original statement, which was about what these three composers wrote.

The music was written to be played, no? Neither composer was a conceptual artist. Anyway, I've said my (aesthetic) piece. YMMV, etc.

I get where pomenitul is coming from because listening to those Schubert sonatas is one of those "this somehow is more than music" feelings - like he's wrangling something bigger than he is, but managing to stay in command of his instruments in so doing. but Chopin's waltzes practically define "transcendence" - from simple, recognizable-to-his-friends folk themes, he sculpts music that's both enduring in its form & graspable by people who know nothing of waltzing - some of the most beautiful music ever written, and also just some dances - this for me is transcendence itself, in part because you can transcend or stay earthbound as you see fit

I probably haven't listened to the waltzes enough thinking they weren't as serious as some of his other pieces but I remember liking them a lot and I have a nice old LP of them played by Ingrid Haebler so that problem is easily rectified!

chopin is great but i confess i haven't heard any of his piano work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJXYqAim3ks

I personally favor Schubert over Chopin and Mozart by quite a lot; I think I favor him over Beethoven at this point, even. He’s probably my favorite 19c composer right now.

His last three sonatas are stupendous (and the D956 Quintet, my god) but I hope it doesn’t lead to people undervaluing the earlier ones... I think D894 is my favorite of all.

I like what JCLC wrote about the waltzes there. ‘The art that conceals art’

Schubert's String Quartet no. 14 >>Chopin's Nocturnes>>Mozart's Piano Concertos. They are all rather good though.

Mozart PCs are amazing - my favorite area of his. I wish my current way of living was more conducive to opera listening though. I get the sense that’s the meatiest bit of him.

tbombing with fiyah like osaka 1945

just made me laugh out loud, god this place is poorer since you retired

The adagio of K. 332 is something I can listen to over and over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXtjkNpTPy8

I haven't listened to any classical music in a long time, which is my bad. I had a very stressful weekend and was lucky to find this album on YouTube. I have the CD at home, but not digitized I don't think. As a good Bill Evans nerd, I of course love Chopin, but ultimately, I think Schubert's Impromptus are my favorite. It's just something I always go back to. Years ago, I would have Debussy hands down, but the older I get, I go back to Schubert most frequently.

yeah - Schubert has been taking over more and more of my solo piano bandwidth with each year I get older too - i play him and Schumann the most out of all the 18th and 19th c masters these days. I'm not sure if it's just that I wore out every beethoven sonata and Liszt piece with intensive comparative listening for so many years or if there really is something that makes Schubert a glove for the conscious aging mind

Schubert Impromptus are def among my favorite romantic piano works

my faves

Sonata D784
Sonata D894
Sonatas D958 and D959
both Impromptus sets

I logged in to my Google Play Music Library for the first time in several years this morning because I knew had a bunch of classical saved on it and I came across this album, which is just fantastic. I went through a period a while back where I was where I was pretty much obsessed with Cesar Franck and finding that CD for a quarter at a Salvation Army was just short of finding a holy grail for me. Definitely right there with the Schubert stuff.

I went through a Franck period, definitely due for another! Got an old '50s LP with a side-long version of that Prelude, Chorale, and Fugue. Also fond of his chamber music.

(Old Columbia LP by Witold Malcuzynski)

The last 8 or 9 Schubert sonatas are a total treasure trove, with D960 standing as the one unquestionably perfect work. I don't know if when people talk about the Impromptus they include Klavierstucke, but the second part of that in my opinion is, along with D960 and the adagio from the String Quintet, the mountain top of Schubert's achievement.

I always forget about those (D946)

Gonna listen to them tomorrow

I realized I didn't have any recordings of the Ravel solo piano stuff, so I fired up Arkiv music picked up this guy. The 'Miroirs' suite that opens disc one is pretty muc worth it on its own.

RE: Cesar Franck
While I was going through my phase, I picked up this album at a thrift shop because it was something I didn't have. I don't normally like those multiple composers on one record kind of deals, but I'm glad I picked up that one, because 'Psyche`' has become one of my favorite pieces of music ever.

Freedom, thank you for the recs on the later Schubert stuff. Was able to get on Arkiv and find some recordings. Very much looking forward to hearing them.

Also, I actually have this album, but for some reason, I only have 'Reliquie' archived on my computer. Probably get that second digitized this weekend. I love side one of the album (again, 'Reliquie'), but I need to sit down with side two.

Miroirs is my favorite Ravel piano work. My favorite recording of it is Frederic Chiu on harmonia mundi. Also Abbey Simon on Vox (part of a cheap and excellent complete Ravel piano set). I'll have to listen to that Centaur one you ordered.

Gilbert Kalish is awesome. I got to see him and Wu Man performing Crumb and Bartok's two-piano works. I don't think that solo Schubert of his has ever made it to CD. If you digitize that LP I'd love to be privy.

Richter on the Monitor label is a fantastic Reliquie (he has later live ones which are too slow).

As far as solo Ravel goes, these are my tops:

Gaspard de la Nuit: Ondine and, especially, Le Gibet
Miroirs: La Vallée Des Cloches
Sonatine: Mouvement De Menuet
Valses Nobles Et Sentimentales: Moins Vif (the 7th one)
À la Manière de ... Borodine

But the rest are all fantastic as well, et al.

I put on the Ravel set yesterday evening for my pre-bedtime internet browsing and it accompanied me off into dreamland. Listening again this morning at work —obviously paying a bit more attention this time— and the entire first disc is absolutely wonderful. There's a lot of tension in this stuff, but he always seems to find release and redemption, even if it's really brief; usually in the last ten seconds of the piece. Just top stuff. Really can't believe I'm 37 years old and just now hearing this for the first time.

Also, xpost to Jon: Yeah, I did some research on Arkiv and couldn't find that particular recording of 'Drei Klavierstücke' D946 anywhere (the Gilbert Kalish one). I'll digitize it when I get home this evening and YouTube it for you.

basically any nonesuch solo piano LPs that never made it to silver, i am categorically interested in hearing (ditto anything on Connoisseur Society - their way of recording pianos is heavenly to me)

I used to just buy any Nonesuch classical and "Explorer Series" stuff I came across just because. Never saw any "Silver Series" records that I recall.

As far as Connoisseur Society, I know I've seen those records a million times if I've seen them once. Off the top of my head, the only one that I know I have for sure is this one, but the vinyl is not in the best shape.

Also, what about Scriabin? I remember reading about his piano stuff in the Bill Evans biography and then coming across a bunch of the records serendipitously a couple weeks later. A couple were the ones on Melodiya, with the goofy faux "psychedelic" covers. I got them home, listened through once and completely forgot about them. I still have the records, but I remember nothing about them, outside of the ridiculous sleeve art.

we did ravel on one of the other "for the piano" polls!

for the piano #3: Debussy vs. Ravel vs. Satie

and then the middle was was schumann and liszt and beethoven

for the piano #2: Beethoven vs. Liszt vs. Schumann

We never got around to Bartok v Prokofiev v Messiaen

Also, what about Scriabin?

Try this one: https://open.spotify.com/album/6MUV87OKjoPXU6UvOwmndT

As for Ravel, I love Bavouzet's set. He does away with the dare I say anglocentric emphasis on softer tones that we've come to expect from 'impressionist' composers.

You are welcome, V/Austin.

Schiff is not always seen as a go-to interpreter of Schubert, but this is a very good set of the non-sonata solo piano stuff: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Impromptus-Klavierstucke-Moments-Musicaux/dp/B000007OTU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1530918314&sr=8-8&keywords=schubert+schiff

ECM Schiff much more interesting than London Decca Schiff in almost any repertoire IMO

Jon — Sorry, I know it's late, but I got there eventually: https://youtu.be/KuDYXWixedk

Hey - I was finally going to try to capture the audio stream from this but the video's not up anymore :(

started learning Fantasy in Fm for four hands with someone who is much more experienced in playing classical music than me...we'll see how it goes